Second Founding Mk II

[Hrvat]

A few years back I was advocating that one of the lines in the DIY guide concering the second founding be changed to a softer version because I thought there was enough space in the second founding (at the time I was thinking 20 maybe 30 unknown chapters - previous discusion here ). Then today as I was reading through the new Grey Knights codex I came across a very strange statement on page 7

 

At this time, the mighty Space Marine Legions were in the process of being separated into CHapters according to the precepts of the Codex Astartes. Much of the process of the Second Founding was being carried out at the direction of the newely formed Inquisition and was in turn overseen by those same lords who had left Terra with Malcador some years earlier. It was a simple task for them to include the Grey Knights amongst the growing roster of Space Marine Chapters, bestowing upon them the designation Chapter 666 - an oddity, as at the time, there were barely four hundred Space Marine Chapters commissioned.

 

My initial reaction was :D what gives. Apparently GW is determined to make the second founding the largest founding ever by a longshot, therefore making 2nd founding chapters a norm rathern than an exception. It is something we as a community might need to consider when providing comments.

 

 

 

Cheers

[Ekim_Trub]

Hmmmm......makes you wonder why GW won't just lay down solid facts for such major fluff like this.

 

That statement then begs the question where nearly 400,000 Marines came from when Legions such as the Raven Guard, Salamanders and Iron Hands suffered such horrendous losses?? Also if there was so many Chapters, why haven't we heard about more of them before now.

 

I personally feel that GW desperately needs to employ someone to oversee the fluff put into their publications, as it seems half the authors can't be bothered to do their research before putting pen to paper.

[Heru]

Hmmmm......makes you wonder why GW won't just lay down solid facts for such major fluff like this.

 

That statement then begs the question where nearly 400,000 Marines came from when Legions such as the Raven Guard, Salamanders and Iron Hands suffered such horrendous losses?? Also if there was so many Chapters, why haven't we heard about more of them before now.

Ultramarines apparently.

 

I personally feel that GW desperately needs to employ someone to oversee the fluff put into their publications, as it seems half the authors can't be bothered to do their research before putting pen to paper.

They do, his name is Alan Merrit and his right hand man is Matt Ward (author of that new fluff).

[Iron Lord]

Given that the Ultramarines alone numbered 250,000 (according to Collected Visions- and the earlier Visions of War book that was part of the later Collected Visions compilation) it seems like the GK number was simply a nod to this.

 

If the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and White Scars also survived without too-severe losses (the Imperial Fists lost a lot in the Iron Cage, the Space Wolves were small enough after the Heresy to only be divided once) then it is quite reasonable for there to be 400 chapters.

[Ekim_Trub]

Well Mr.Merrit & Mr.Ward need a good kick in their "hidden parts"!

The one thing that really riles me about 40k is the inconsistency in the fluff.

[Sigismund Himself]

The Horus Heresy fluff is currently undergoing a shift. From what I've read in the Horus Heresy subforum on this board and ADB's comments in particular, the Pre-Heresy Legions are now confirmed to have hundreds of thousands of marines instead of tens of thousands. This would appear to be a result of that recent change. It's an interesting change to say the least, given that the second founding chapters currently listed have been given so much detail and already have devoted followings. If another 350 chapters pop out of the woodwork, it seems a little odd after all this time.

[Arkangilos]

I'm sure it was more of a thing so that people could say, "Second founding chapter."

 

And also, who has to say that all second founding chapters were full strength? It could be that the full strength ones were the major ones, but they wanted more than that, so they made quarter and half strength chapters that went on to build up their forces while the major ones went out right away.

[Olis]

And also, who has to say that all second founding chapters were full strength? It could be that the full strength ones were the major ones, but they wanted more than that, so they made quarter and half strength chapters that went on to build up their forces while the major ones went out right away.

 

It is entirely possible understrength chapters were sent out into the galaxy but one has to wonder, as a logical progression, if there was 400-ish chapters to start with, does that mean a great many still exist? And if so, would a list pop up in the future a la the Apocryphas? (Skaros and Davio.) :mellow:

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

with the collected visions and such increasing the legions to hundreds of thousands of marines, they have totally invalidated the apochrypha of skaros which claims only 23 UM successors, 23,000 marines, not 250,000. that's sort of a big gap there. unless we are to imagine that many of the newly formed chapters weren't simply the result of splitting up the legions, but actually new foundings with most of the marines being raised up to stand up the new chapters. otherwise the average chapter would have had less than a full companies worth of marines.

 

as for making your chapter a second founding chapter, as long as you're ok with UM gene-seed, have at it friend.