Fighting Nids

[Evicerator]

I'm currently having issues with bug infestations while running DoA or Razorspam (with proxied heavy flamers, but I can las/plas as well)

 

He runs a varied army, so I am not looking for specifics merely ideas for fighting them better. I'm considering adding some more shooty elements in the form of a Devastator squad with missile launchers or predators and dropping my Stormraven.

 

Running-

 

DoA:

 

Dante

 

Libby

 

Assault Squad x4

 

Sanguinary Guard w/ banner

 

Sanguinary Priests w Lightning Claw and jump packs x2

 

Vanguard Veteran x8 w/ Claw x2 and fist x2

 

Stormraven

 

 

Razorspam:

 

Same list minus Dante and Sanguinary Guard, but with 4 HF Razorbacks and 1 Baal Predator

[Blitzkrieg861]

I play Nids too... I stopped for two reasons. 1) no models for the cool codex entries and 2) no effective way to deal with mech spam.

 

Nids only have 4 things that can really harm Mech. Zoanthropes, which have a terrible 18" range but S10 Lance shot. Tyrannofex, which is a BS3 S10 Assault 2 shot. Hive Guard 24" S8 Assault 2. Lastly, Devourers with Brain Leech Worms are S6 and twin-linked with 18" range. At first glance these look like good options but consider this. To even remotely effectively deal with mech spam they need to spend about 1000pts on 2 Tyrannofex and 3 x 3 Hive Guard.

 

I loved my Tyrannofex for it's psychological effect on the battlefield. It's essentially a Land Raider but without an AV. Statisticly though, 2 S10 BS3 shots do very little to anything. Ignore this for the most part unless you get within assaulting range.

 

Hive Guard are nasty. They do not need line of sight and often deny you your cover save however their short range and movement limits their usefullness. If he fields any of these, this is target number one. Bring them down...

 

Several Nid units have fleet which is nice but all in all, not a whole lot of their units are going to catch BA mech. After taking out their reliable anti-mech it's all about run and gun from there, move back and around their flanks 12" per turn and even move flat out with smoke popped if need be. Maybe this isn't a fluffy space marine tactic but it will win you the game. There are two more units to watch out for as they can make things a little nasty for you though.

 

Venom Thropes. These guys give a 5+ cover save and make assaulting any of their units withing 6" of the Venoms act as though you're charging a unit with defensive grenades and as though you moved through dangerous terrain. They are not particularily hard to kill but if you're planning on shooting Nids up make sure this guy dies. He is only T4 with 2 wounds though he'll likely be behind a lot of guys and go to ground for a 3+ cover against your shots. Still, not hard to kill but must die in order to make the rest of your shooting easier.

 

Tervigon. This is their real nasty unit. I can't imagine anyone making a Nid list without at least 2 of these. Just doesn't make sense. In case you aren't familiar, it poops out 3D6 Termagaunts each turn, can be a scoring troop choice and is T6 with W6 and a 3+ save. Not exactly easy to kill but this is one of the big bugs you have to watch out for. It will continuous poop out guys. People ignored these when I first started playing Nids and I remember, thanks to my Tervis, one game where I tabled my opponent and ended up with like 10 or 15 more guys than I started with at the beginning of the game. Again... kill this guy, it's going to make taking objectives easier.

 

Stay in cover whenever you can. If you're going to get assaulted, get yourself in cover. They have NO frag grenades. Not even on Gene Stealers (another reason why their codex sucks) That nasty I6 rending unit goes last if you can get yourself in cover.

 

Most of the massed shots Nids can put out is S4 so will have no effect on Mech. Just don't expose your rear armor. Unlike us, they have no way of effectively getting past road blocks. Nid players will sometimes use a congo line of termagaunts to prevent an assault on their Tervigons or Tyranofexs, tank shock a razor on through 18" to get them to move aside and then assault whatever you like. Don't worry about a counter assault unless it's from MC bugs, nothing else is really going to bother you if you have FnP bubbles up.

 

Nids, to my best understanding, have always been an assaulting army. They are forced now to shoot as their assaulting is bloody awful without frag grenades so they have to try to make due with sub par shooting. They really have been given the shaft and if you want an almost sure fire way to beat Nids, go with mech. Stay fast. Don't worry so much about losing all your shots except for one gun if you need to move 12". But if you do want to assault, just make sure you're in cover if you are going to get assaulted by their stuff. Multi-assault their big bugs or weather them with shots first as power weapon attacks will ruin some of your guys (but not much, they really have a small number of attacks) and do your best to avoid getting multi-assaulted by their big bugs.

 

I know this post had no real flow. I just woke up and I'm spewing out random thoughts on Nids. Hopefully some of this is useful....

[AbusePuppy]

Your list is rather "kitchen sink," for one; you have a sort of random amalgamation of models that doesn't seem to have a strong direction. If you're looking to do better that would probably be one place to start; stick to the fundamentals, first and always.

 

Tyranids are an army that needs to get into melee to function- if you can deny them that, they fall apart quickly. To this end, they run several anti-tank units (Tyrannofexes, Hive Guard, Zoanthropes) to wreck enemy transports. Anything that prevents them from closing and keeps your models inside their metal boxes is a good thing for you. To this end BA are excellent, since Fast on all our vehicles means you can fire on the move and outrun most anything in the Tyranid codex.

 

Hive Guard are most often your primary threat- they put out a lot of good-strength shots and are the main component of most Tyranid lists anti-tank. Toughness 6 means that standard anti-infantry won't work against them, but if you have a Baal Pred in dakka configuration (AC/HB) or LasPlas Razors, they will do fairly well. They can shoot without LOS, so try to deploy to deny your opponent the ability to hide behind things- the models aren't exactly small, so it will take good-sized buildings, etc, to conceal them. Their range is their main limitation, but beware of Onslaught, which (when cast from a Tervigon) allows them to both run and shoot in the same turn. Disabling the enemy's Hive Guard is ALWAYS going to be your first step to winning (unless you play DoA.)

 

Tervigons are your other major threat; they can produce streams of scoring units that are excellent for tying something up. Although Termagants are little threat to us on their own (due to FNP), getting locked in combat with a squad so that a MC can charge you is often fatal. (BA and Tyranids both rely on getting the charge to win this matchup; do not get baited into bad charges.) They have a large number of wounds, but LasPlas will fell them rather quickly and cover is often difficult for them to get if you've already eliminated the Hive Guard.

 

Other MCs (Hive Tyrant, Trygon) will be your third priority, although their deployment can shift this. As a rule, these will smash your vehicles and wade through your squads pretty easily, as most of our advantages (FNP, FC, armor save, good stats) are meaningless against them. If you have a bunch of power weapons or 20+ guys and get the charge, you may be able to beat them, but do not count on defeating them in melee. If it is necessary to kill them (i.e. they are threatening a charge next turn), simply focus your firepower on them as you would anything else. Trygons will almost never have cover saves and thus die easily; Tyrants, generally accompanied by Tyrant Guard, will more commonly have them, but the presence of the Guard means they are no faster than normal infantry, so you'll have more time to deal with them. Blocking with a weaponless/sacrificial vehicle can often stop them for a turn, as even with their rerolls actually destroying such tanks is somewhat annoying for them.

 

The most common kind of Tyranid list you'll see is some kind of HQ (Tervigon, Tyrant, or budget Prime) with three squads of Hive Guard and 2-3 Tervigons, usually also with monstrous creatures in the HS slot. This army will mostly advance as a group and try to overwhelm you; keep your target priority as above. Units that are demeched are in distinct danger of dying- the longer you can keep your tanks alive, the better. It is unlikely that you will be able to kill all his scoring units, so be prepared to Tank Shock onto some objectives. If he is foolish, you can multiply wounds with No Retreat and, if you have large squads and he deploys/moves poorly, it may be possible to get a multicharge on some Termagants and an MC, which usually spells doom for both of them. Place objectives away from cover as much as possible and spread them far apart- the list is fairly slow and likes to stay clumped up when possible, since it has short ranges.

 

"Stealer Shock" lists generally run large numbers of Genestealers and support elements and are often lacking Hive Guard. This sort of army is almost hilariously easy to defeat for BA; simply spread out initially to block off a good-sized area from Infiltrators (remember, they must stay 18.1" away from you when deploying) and then use your speed and the space you've created to avoid being engaged in melee. Shoot a "path" through their army and move into the emptied area where possible. If it is necessary to engage them in melee, make sure you are in cover- virtually no Tyranid units have grenades, so you will get to swing before them when they assault. Genestealers (and the other units) are all but worthless against tanks, especially ones that move 7"+, so use this to your advantage to create "walls" where needed.

 

Reserve lists are another possibility, relying heavily on outflanking and deep striking models. However, at 2000pts, lacking many of the advantages that other armies can bring, it is rather sub-par. AT will be very, very limited and a Psychic Hood can render them all but impotent against tanks; it is highly likely that significant parts of the army will simply fail to arrive, so deploy in a "castle" (leaving yourself room to maneuver) and be prepared to hit them hard with shooting and assaults the turn they arrive- and be aware that they will want to do likewise to you. If you can neuter their ability to kill thanks, the rest of the list will not be frightening at all, which you probably recognize as a common theme with Tyranids.

 

All in all, a LasPlas Razorback army will usually serve you best against them; it has the speed and reach to hurt them while remaining immune to most of their arsenal and has sufficient point-blank firepower to cause them real problems. DoA should consistently crush Stealer Shock and reserve lists, but will struggle against the generic Tyranid lists. Flamerbacks are excellent against many of their units, but the aggressive, close-in style they emphasize is not at its best against Tyranids; however, with support from 3x5 Missile Devastators, their army is in much greater trouble.

 

3++ (in sig) has a number of useful articles on building different styles of BA lists; I think that will benefit you the most overall. BA is a very flexible codex and there are plenty of choices to be had there, so you won't be cornered into any particular sets of options other than perhaps "run a Libby/Priests in most lists." BA vs Nids can be anywhere from an even matchup to a slaughter for us, depending on the specific builds in question, but in general it will be a good thing for you.