Týr Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 My ceramite clad friends. I wirite because I can't find a post discussing The Iron Within by Rob Sanders. So sorry if it has been up before, and has been debated. I think it was the best story in age of darkness. It took me by surprise. Really intense and grim battle, and some of the best action sequences of the whole series. And another "flat" legion was fleshed out in a good way. Could be fun if mr. Sanders would return to them, dig more into the Iron Warriors, as he seems to handle them very well. And the whole setting on a deadly world, with the Schadenhold as a very unique battlefield, was just great sci-fi in my mind! And the characters were quite interesting, tough the ultramarine was a bit too "ultimate warrior ^2" for my mind, slicing through everything at the end. But I can live with that as overall the story blew me away. But what do you think of it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Power Hungry Monkey Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I agree. Overall a very good read. Some Legions like the Iron Warriors were never big players (fluff wise) in the Heresy and its great to see them getting a bit of 'air time' as it were. As you said, the Schadenhold is a great concept for a fortress and a really unique take on an impregnable bastion. I kept having the image of an upside down Minas Tirith from LotR hanging inside a giant cave. I do hope we get a bit more on the Iron Warriors and really anyhting on the White Scars. Blood Angels are on their way end next year and Raven Guard are next up. Theres very few legions left now who haven't been represented. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2930949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Yeah it's actually nice with legions, that aren't that big on heresy background and fluff. There are a lot of freedom with these legions, so I'm hoping for more interesting stories. And yeah White Scare are another of these legions we simply MUST see something with. Too bad they have been ignored, as if they are about to be flushed out of the universe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2931741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Yeah that was a great read. As for legions can we pleas have a book about the DA not based on caliban or one person. The rush back to terra by the wolfs and the dark angel's would be the perfect time to flesh out el,jonson. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2931765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 And the characters were quite interesting, tough the ultramarine was a bit too "ultimate warrior ^2" for my mind, slicing through everything at the end. But I can live with that as overall the story blew me away. But what do you think of it? I loved the story. Twas indeed desparate and good to see a loyalist victory at last! The Ultramarine was not too over powered in my opinion. He had a Storm Shield for protections and was wounded fairly heavily in the end. As Guilliman's personal Champion in a Legion of over 250,000 I don't think he was over powered. The only thing I didn't like was the Son of Horus Captain at the end who was scared of him. I mean, Astartes are scared of just about nothing, least of all death. Failure and a Primarch's displeasure, but certainly not some other warrior coming at him. Still, all round an unexpected gem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2931810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 It was such a great story and inspired me to think about a loyalist Iron Warrior's army! Dantioch was a master mind and I loved how they escaped. The ending raises some questions especially when you have read Rules of Engagement. Edit. Also wasn't his storm shield likened to being a bulkhead door and he was almost able to fully "hide" behind it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2931816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 I completely forgot the ultra was one of Guilliman's personal Champions. Makes much more sense now, and erases the only con I had against the story. Great! I have also thought about making an loyal Iron Warriors force since reading the story. I am Really hoping I get some mk III armour and Phobos bolters for Christmas! Then I will begin the project. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2931912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorns Padawan Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 I liked Dantioch's character. Loved how the IW dread came out of the wall to attack the Sons of Horus! My favourite part of the whole story is Dantiochs compassion & sense of honor & brotherhood towards the dread at the end as it gets a rocket up it ass as they try to flee. Easily my fav story of the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2931922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Indeed, Dantioch's brotherhood with Vastopol is touching. Another great thing about "Iron Within" is the depiction of the effects of a Hrud migration and the entropy effect that occurs preceeding the foul xenos, and what it does to people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2932303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 One of the best HH shorts out there. Loved the loyalist IW perspective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2932742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I also Loved this story. I felt that this more then any other in the book could have been its own full length novel. The blow by blow of the siege would have been epic. I also have added the Iron Palatine, Zygmund Tarrasch to my list of Grey Knight founders. I'm thinking the rank of Palatine is related to his powers. The beat down the Vernable Vastopol put down on the Renegades was just sick, best fight in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2932754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcye Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Loved this story as well, though I disagree with the notion that it was the best fight in Age of Darkness. The fight between Curze, Sevatar, Sheng, The Lion, Alajos and Corswain was a cut above it, in my opinion of course. One of my favourite HH Series moments is this gem: 'Your Grace?''My sword,' Corswain reached a hand out, as if he could touch the opposing groups of warriors. 'Where is it, Your Grace?' 'Gone,' Corswain closed his remaining eye. 'I left it in a primarch's spine.' Brutal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2932761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Aye, both stories were nothing short of awesome :) Nicodemious (sp?) is probably my favorite Ultramarine character so far, and is one of my top ten favorites in my entirety of media exposure B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2932803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 This was my personal favorite in that anthology. I liked the characters and the potential for still-loyal members of traitor Legions. One wonders if Dantioch, in addition to helping to bolster the defenses at Terra, may have stood shoulder to shoulder with Garro in the role the latter performed subsequent to the Horus Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2932925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorns Padawan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hi certainly hope these IW characters are visited again at some point. One thing that I would love to know is Dantioch's affliction, what was it that he was coughing up?? A possible flaw in one of his organs? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2933036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sazabi24 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hi certainly hope these IW characters are visited again at some point. One thing that I would love to know is Dantioch's affliction, what was it that he was coughing up?? A possible flaw in one of his organs? Uh, it was explained in the story. He got trapped by the Hurds and their entropy field aged him. basically, he's coughing because he's old. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2933088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Do you guys think that Tauro Nicodemus is bringing Dantioch to Terra as "promised", or is he takin' him to Guilliman's side? I'm thinking about the things implied in the book, that the XIII Primarch is making moves to become the warmaster himself (or more?). Dantioch would indeed be a very powerful card for Guilliman to have, after what we saw he is capable of at the Schadenhold. It would make sense that the "master strategist" of the Primarchs, would be making sure no one else got to Dantioch first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2933978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I don't think Guilliman is planning to jeopardise the Imperium by making a bid for Warmaster, I believe he is making plans for if Terra and the Emperor is to fall; especially since the Ultramarines cannot be at the Siege. So yes I believe Dantioch will end up in Ultramar but not for entirely selfish reasons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2933984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Ugh yeah about this story. So why is it that all of the interesting multi dimensional characters are loyalists? Even in the bloody traitor legions, the "human" characters, the ones that weren't always "bwahaha UNLIMITED POWAA" all stayed loyal. And the bloody IW, seriously? I had always seen them as among the least likely to have loyalist holdouts given how bitter and cynical they are, but of course they too have loyalists who somehow magically survive a yearlong siege by traitor IW (not loving big E makes you automatically incompetent at what used to be your forte) and then hijack a traitor ship and just...ugh. This kind of thing cheapens the whole heresy because apparently the only traitors were bumbling cartoon villains anyway so there was no fall from grace, just a slight change in uniform. Oh the IW had a very large heresy presence, they were the ones that actually penetrated the walls of the Imperial Palace. In far less time than it apparently took them to get their asses kicked in this story against a vastly inferior unsupplied force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2936794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tancred Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Well to answer your last sentence at the imperial palace siege the IW primarch was there. I would think his genius at siege warcraft would have sped up any siege, but also we know from the end of Fallen Angel he has the massive siege guns Horus had constructed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2936799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Oh the IW had a very large heresy presence, they were the ones that actually penetrated the walls of the Imperial Palace. In far less time than it apparently took them to get their asses kicked in this story against a vastly inferior unsupplied force. Perturabo didn't command the siege of that fortress. Dantioch is also a siegecraft genius even amongst IW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2936814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yeah Perturabo did personally lead the Siege of Terra, but then Rogal Dorn personally lead the defence and he was also a primarch and siege master so it kind of cancels. I mean look, the issue to me isn't so much that the traitors lost the battle or whatever in of itself, it's that the series as a whole leans toward making the Traitor Legions a bunch of incompetent stereotypical "bad guys" and the loyalists are a bunch of John McLanes kicking the ever loving "stuff" out of them despite being outnumbered/ambushed/etc. Not only does this bother me as a fan of Chaos, but it bothers me as a fan of 40k lore in general because it cheapens the whole Heresy drama. I mean originally the Traitor Legions were these terrible forces that it took the greatest sacrifice from the Emperor to defeat. Now they just seem like a joke. Let's see, Istvaan III they are held up by vastly numerically inferior loyalist contingents that survive a VIRUS BOMBING, end up bogged down, take far more losses than anticipated and don't even kill Clark Ken--Garviel Loken. Then on Istvaan V things go ok for them, except instead of less than 10 marines surviving the massacre as per the original fluff, now a whole bunch of Raven Guard survive, killing a bunch of traitors as they escape (Raven's Flight). And now this. A couple loyalist Iron Warriors coop themselves up in a stalactite and somehow hold off a Grand Company of traitors, and don't even die at the end, oh no, they pull out a total miracle and run off to help the heroes by stealing a traitor ship and basically killing the entire assaulting company. I mean how would loyalists feel if there was a story about a squad of Ultramarines turning to Chaos, totally embarrassing an Ultra battle company over a year long series of battles, stealing their strike crusiser, and going to the Eye to join Abaddon. All because of how much better they obviously were than the loyal Ultras, their sergeant was apparently a combat genius, even among the rest of his chapter. Even as it is SW players are angry about the Wolf of Fenris blurb that merely suggests that some Wolves turned at one point, and Legatus thinks that the Battle of Eskrador is some kind of conspiracy that never happened (it's basically the only battle the Ultras have ever lost in fluff) but traitor players swallow their faction being treated like utter idiots and incompetent walking targets all the time and I'm sick of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2937205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Ugh yeah about this story. So why is it that all of the interesting multi dimensional characters are loyalists? Even in the bloody traitor legions, the "human" characters, the ones that weren't always "bwahaha UNLIMITED POWAA" all stayed loyal. And the bloody IW, seriously? I had always seen them as among the least likely to have loyalist holdouts given how bitter and cynical they are, but of course they too have loyalists who somehow magically survive a yearlong siege by traitor IW (not loving big E makes you automatically incompetent at what used to be your forte) and then hijack a traitor ship and just...ugh. This kind of thing cheapens the whole heresy because apparently the only traitors were bumbling cartoon villains anyway so there was no fall from grace, just a slight change in uniform. Oh the IW had a very large heresy presence, they were the ones that actually penetrated the walls of the Imperial Palace. In far less time than it apparently took them to get their asses kicked in this story against a vastly inferior unsupplied force. Got the cheese to go with that whine? Man. I'll name some multi dimensional characters that turned traitor. Abaddon, Lil Horus, Talos, Lucius, Khârn, Ahriman. All of these guys are not paper thin. The reason in my mind that we hear so many stories of the loyalists "wining" is that theses are the tales that make it back to Terra. There were millions of stories of the bad guys winning but how would these tales be known by the ones who write the history books? Oh and it was the World Eaters who penetrated the Walls first. The only Legions in my mind that were unlikely to have any loyalists who could have made it back to Terra are the Night Lords, Word Bearors and the Alpha Legion. There is nothing about the background of the Iron Warriors that says they would have been rotten to the core. Sure their Primarch was but hurt but thats it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2937212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The stories are written in third person omniscient. They are a fly on the wall kind of thing, there is no reason for them to have to "make it back to Terra" they are not written as an Imperial record. And the World Eaters were the first THROUGH the wall, they did not breach it, the Iron Warriors did, well technically the shot that brought the wall down was from the Dies Irae under the command of Perturabo. After the IW breached the wall they kind of wandered off and destroyed the Imperial Fists monastery, while the World Eaters and Death Guard went into the breach. At least this was the original fluff as per the Index Astartes Siege of the Imperial Palace. Oh and not only were IW described as having loyalty pretty much only to themselves and Perty but in Galaxy in Flames it mentions that Perty told Horus that he had already disposed of any possible "dissenters" but I guess he forgot the characters in this story. You think Abaddon was multi-dimensional? What? The guy was a total guy who I don't approve of, as was Typhus, as was Lucius. I'll give you Little Horus but he seems to be being set up for a change of heart and a noble sacrifice blah blah blah. Ahriman was also ok I guess, I'll give you him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2937218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamafore Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 In all honesty, minus the upside down stronghold, the story seems rather realistic. The loyalists had a heavily defensible strongpoint, supplies and knowledge of the land. That's minus the "strategic genius" of the commander who had back up plans for back up plans. In my opinion though, what sealed it was the traitor commander's refusal to say "Screw this." and blow the pretty much worthless planet from orbit, instead dedicating a grand company with titan support (that could be better used elsewhere) just to prove he was superior. A problem common to 40k it seems. Never knowing when the payoff is not worth the venture. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242436-the-iron-within/#findComment-2937244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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