Use of the term 'Space Marine' in universe

[DarKnight]

So I have been leery of the mandate given to BL authors to not have characters refer to themselves as 'Astartes' or 'Adeptus Astartes' ever since A-D-B mentioned it a few months back, and I'm pretty sure it was just to sell more of the video game but I am REALLY finding it takes me out of the flow of the story. Am I over fanboying it, or do any of you fell the same way?

[mc warhammer]

I feel the same.

 

"Space marine" sounds clunky and...a little silly. After all, you didn't call Thunder Warriors "ground marines". 'Astartes' is more elegant, mythological and just...cooler.

 

At the end of the day, it takes a little sheen off things but it's too small a thing to bother me...

 

...unlike Sanguinnius having blonde hair.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that the space marine thing wasn't to sell more of the game. That doesn't seem like something that would have any meaningful effect. Feel free to correct me though, A D-B. :)

 

I do agree, it does sound a bit more fancy, but I definitely understand Black Library's reasoning, and pretty much agree with it.

[DarKnight]

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that the space marine thing wasn't to sell more of the game. That doesn't seem like something that would have any meaningful effect. Feel free to correct me though, A D-B. :tu:

 

I do agree, it does sound a bit more fancy, but I definitely understand Black Library's reasoning, and pretty much agree with it.

okay, enlighten me brother. I admit the whole sell video games thing was my own thought. What do you think BLs reasoning was?

[dcye]

I believe the reasoning given was that it gives a better direct correlation to the actual tabletop game itself. The army in the game isn't known as the Astartes, they're known as Space Marines and have been for some time. It can probably be assumed that at least some people reading the Heresy books aren't players and hence when they try to reserach the hobby, this direct correlation is beneficial to their endeavor.

 

Or something like that. I find it really kills my flow in the books, but eh.

[Týr]

I don't like the term "space marine". Astartes is what floats my boat.

 

I can see that it's easier for people, completely new to the whole universe, to read space marine in a book, and then see the minis at a local shop and buy them.

But I think it's just plain silly to do against the fans. If you read the fluff and books, you automaticly finds out that legiones astartes = spwace mawine.

Besides I find it hard to see, newcommers to the universe starting out in Heresy books and other BL books. You will most likely start out with minis, and in case your first encounter with 40k is the books, then with a basic intelligence (and to be extreme: two google searches) you connects the links.

 

BL should let the writers get som creative freedom, to bring the universe to life, without having to think about selling as must GW related stuff as possible.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i always thought that the Adeptus Astartes was the proper, high gothic term where Space Marine is the common, low gothic term.

 

WLK

[Billuriye]

I don't care. Space marine sounds too generic but i think GW made a fine job at monopolizing the word.

[Zeller]

Astartes is just oozing with the layers of scientific development, combat history, and advanced training and technology behind the man. Space marines sound like a clothed plush sci-fi cowboy wearing a grey hard hat and holding anime style uzies while posing like hulk hogan.

[Captain Idaho]

I believe A D-B didn't say Astartes was a bad word, rather that it was an incomplete term. If I remember correctly, the the word Astartes means "of the stars", therefore it is silly to refer to yourself as "of the stars".

 

Still, nothing to stop it becoming a slang term for the common citizens of the Imperium, but I imagine BL decided they didn't want to promote potential mis-use of the term so I guess they just put a blanket ban on it.

 

Using Adeptus Astartes is still ok because it is their full title, but as it's very formal it wouldn't be used in casual reference I imagine, especially between Space Marines.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

The Emperor, the Dark Gods rot his vile soul, said "Space Marines" in one of his more quotable prattling declarations, so "Space Marines" is the in-fluff correct terminology. :D

[Dorns Padawan]

Also I am certain A D-B said it was someting to do with GWs IP? I think dyce summed it up nicely. Though on my part, Astartes is the only term for me to use for SM.

[A D-B]

It's a pretty simple dealio, and not a BL thing. It's an IP thing.

 

Adeptus Astartes is fine. It's the official term for the Space Marine organisation, obviously. However, using "Astartes" as a proper noun, as in "The Astartes ducked left and headbutted that guy", is now considered incorrect.

 

Essentially, it's something handed down from the IP department. Not some BL-mandated change. It makes writing about all of this a little harder, but working in any licensed universe comes with a fair share of hoops to jump through, and it could be worse. I get around writing "Space Marine" by using warrior, Imperial Marine, or Legionnaire / Legionary.

[Týr]

I get around writing "Space Marine" by using warrior, Imperial Marine, or Legionnaire / Legionary.

 

And by using adeptus astartes. Or am I wrong?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

The overriding thing, on B&C, at least has always been "it's your hobby, people may not always agree but you pay your money you takes your choice" when interacting with background and creating ideas.

 

Whether it's official or not, nothing will ever stop me using the word "Astartes" to describe a Space Marine because the choice is mine no matter the directive from those who control the magical IP.

[Asmodai78]

I get around writing "Space Marine" by using warrior, Imperial Marine, or Legionnaire / Legionary.

 

 

Just finished reading Blood Rever and I think I read " Warrior" that many times that it lost its meaning, which made it harder to read at times

[A D-B]

I get around writing "Space Marine" by using warrior, Imperial Marine, or Legionnaire / Legionary.

 

 

Just finished reading Blood Rever and I think I read " Warrior" that many times that it lost its meaning, which made it harder to read at times

 

I'll change it back to Space Marine just for you. All 800,000 references of it.

 

Blood Reaver was written and edited while the change was taking place, as were several other novels. It suffered from the editors changing things as they saw fit.

[Legatus]

I get around writing "Space Marine" by using warrior, Imperial Marine, or Legionnaire / Legionary.

And by using adeptus astartes. Or am I wrong?

The Adeptus Astartes is the institution, like the Adeptus Ministorum or the Adeptus Mechanicus. You can use it to formally describe actions or statements of "the Space Marines", but you wouldn't use it to refer to a single Marine. E.g. "The Adeptus Astartes is defending the eastern fringes." But not "the Adeptus Astartes fired his boltun into the crowd of heretics."

[Týr]

I get around writing "Space Marine" by using warrior, Imperial Marine, or Legionnaire / Legionary.

And by using adeptus astartes. Or am I wrong?

The Adeptus Astartes is the institution, like the Adeptus Ministorum or the Adeptus Mechanicus. You can use it to formally describe actions or statements of "the Space Marines", but you wouldn't use it to refer to a single Marine. E.g. "The Adeptus Astartes is defending the eastern fringes." But not "the Adeptus Astartes fired his boltun into the crowd of heretics."

 

Thank you very much for making that clear to me. I assume that the same applies to legiones Astartes, and you can not refer to a single marine as legiones astartes.

[Týr]

Sorry for double post. Just delete this.

[voi shet magir]

Astartes is just oozing with the layers of scientific development, combat history, and advanced training and technology behind the man.

 

It's an adjective. It is like calling a Space Marine a "Space."

 

 

Marines were called "legionnaires" before the Legions had even been invented. All the Chapters were, collectively, the legions. They're legionnaires.

 

Thank you very much for making that clear to me. I assume that the same applies to legiones Astartes, and you can not refer to a single marine as legiones astartes.

 

A member of the Adeptus Mechanicus or Astartes would be an Adept. So "Legionnaire."

[A D-B]

Astartes is just oozing with the layers of scientific development, combat history, and advanced training and technology behind the man.

 

It's an adjective. It is like calling a Space Marine a "Space."

 

Now, yeah. The point is that it's a change, which is what people are objecting to. It's not that they don't understand the difference, which you seem to suggest. Marines were allowed to be called Astartes before. Now it means calling a Space Marine a "Space" (or rather "of the stars".). It either didn't before, or was a commonly accepted noun in its own right. Astartes as a noun in that sense meant a member of the post-human subspecies modified by gene-seed implantation.

 

 

Marines were called "legionnaires" before the Legions had even been invented.

 

Um...

 

All the Chapters were, collectively, the legions. They're legionnaires.

 

Only in the Heresy. Despite the subforum this is in, it's a meta-topic that applies to 40K beyond the Heresy itself, and Imperial Marines are specifically not referred to as legionnaires.

[Zincite]

Imperial Marines are specifically not referred to as legionnaires.

Imperium poll 3952, M32, stated that the second most common reason for dislike of the Legion split-up, just after reducing of Adeptus Astartes strength, was "because 'Chapternaires' just doesn't have the same ring to it."

[voi shet magir]

Marines were called "legionnaires" before the Legions had even been invented.

 

Um...

 

 

Like 1987, not M29. I feel like calling all of them Adeptus-anything is almost demeaning.

[Jesterhead]

Space Marines as a species are 'Homo-Astartes.' Simple as that in my mind.

 

To say that they can only be referred to as Astartes as an organization is silly for the following reason:

 

Luther and Kor Phareon were organized into their respective Legions, but did NOT have a gene seed, only modified to keep up with their comrades. So organizationally speaking, it would be correct to call them Astartes, and incorrect to call them Space Marines. The difference it obvious: What they are vs. what they do.

 

 

 

Clearly GW is making the wrong choice on this matter...