Red Guard - IA in progress

[Race Bannon]

Red Guard ... as I was reading the replies this just struck me as awesome. Dooo eeet :D

[NightrawenII]

In all fairness, Red Scorpions have a green color scheme - so there is a precedent of a Chapter color not matching the color of their armor (although, perhaps, matching the color of the Chapter symbol).

... Brazen Claws aren't brass-coloured and Angels Porphyr are not purple. So, yeah.

 

As such, the first Chapter Master will understand the wisdom of the Codex and organize his Chapter accordingly, but allow for some lenience in how the Captains run their companies, and perhaps with some additional (minor) modifications similar to Iron Hands and Raven Guard (i.e. more self-sufficient companies, more Battle companies and less Reserve companies, companies responsible for their own recruitment, etc). The underlying reason for this is, in case I ever want to try out one of the other Marine codices, I may have a "fluffy" reason to represent a more "deviant" company rather than a completely different force. That is, of course, far into the future - right now I would be more focused on building a reasonably sized strike force representing maybe 30-40 Marines of a Codex company, with a few auxillary personnel from the First and the Tenth companies, and some mechanized assets.

[mordant comment]

What hapenned to your Byzantine-esque Chapter?

[/mordant comment]

;)

 

This brings out another question - recruitment. Presently I am in favor of a more Codex-standard Tenth Company recruitment practice rather than companies being responsible for their own recruitment, but if there are any thoughts on this, I am open to them!

You know, it's hard to comment something, when you don't have some kind of frame to begin with.

 

If you want more useful help from me (or other people) write a outline or at least list of do/don't wants. The focal point is important. :lol:

 

 

Cheers, NightrawenII.

[Olis]

and the initial Chapter Master may be one of the last Marines alive recruited into the original Imperial Fists Legion, prior to Dorn's retraining of the Legion to be a strict Codex Chapter.

 

There is 979 years between the 2nd and the 3rd founding so the Marine in question would be very old, in either case he would be at that moment either Crimson Fists Master or one of the top three guys in Chapter and I wouldn't be suprised if everyone else in the Chapter was expecting for the old geezer to kick the bucket at any moment. In my personal opnion not really Chapter Master material for a newly founded Chapter.

 

 

Cheers

 

Oh. Good point - even with Marine longevity, it would be hard to do without making it gimmicky.

 

You could pull a Lysander, maybe - to keep it fresh you would have to eschew the traditional 'he was lost in the warp for aaages' method, though. Perhaps he was bumped forward in time by one thousand years by Inquisitorial shenanigans. Or whatever. :lol:

[Midgard]

NightrawenII: The Byzantinesque Chapter fell as the victim of twin pressures of a new job and parenthood... by the time I gathered my wits enough to consider another project, inspiration for it was largely gone. Now that I have some time to work on a project (and to paint/build an army to go along with it), I intend to finish this project until there is a ready IA (or, perhaps, even a more expansive format).

 

I will probably work on the outline/draft IA next, although it may take me a week or two with other projects on my plate at the moment

 

Race Bannon: Hmm... Red Guard is a definite "maybe" for a name.

 

Olisredan: I would probably want to avoid the Lysander syndrome, as it may be too gimmicky for what I am trying to do. That said, I can definitely have a Lysander stand-in for the Chapter ;)

 

Thank you guys for your comments! Now, to work on the actual outline... :P

[KaiserTJ1860]

Im loving the theme of this proposed army. I read over this thread a week or so ago and after browsing the web today, found something that migth be useful to you:

Arkady - Kabuki Models

Would make a great captain/chap master or something similar and he really embodies the slavic/soviet theme you want. Also another example of how good the green/slightly camo scheme could work.

 

Best,

 

TJ

[Roma]

I like the theme. The USSR rocked, Russia rocks, the Russian army and people and anything to do with them rocks.

 

HOWEVER be aware, the crimson guard sounds cool, but there is an army called the crimson guard in the gameJack 2 renegade. You cannot imagine the amount of times I regretted this when brainstorming a chapter.

[Midgard]

Just wanted to quickly jump in and thank all of you for your input!

 

So far, these are the definites. I will revise and put in a more visually pleasing format as time allows, and with consideration of input. So, without further adieu:

 

Chapter Name: Red Guard

Founding: 6th

Gene-seed: Imperial Fists (by the way of Crimson Fists)

Specialty: Siege/Heavy Infantry tactics, largely Codex-adherent, but flexible enough to utilize non-Codex formations for the duration of a single campaign

Chapter colors: green armor with white trim.

Chapter symbol: red star with white border

Battle cry: Za Rodinu! (meaning "for the Motherland" in Russian, here assumed to be the local world's dialect)

 

Homeworld: (name to be decided) A polluted industrial wasteland with massive population split between technologically advanced hive cities and massive and overpopulated enclosed farming complexes, where agricultural production is accomplished through less technological means (and requires high population for labor). Outside of the hives and farming complexes is a wasteland populated by outcasts, semi-nomadic hunter-scavenger tribes, monastic religious sects, occasional (and secret) research outpost of Adeptus Mechanicus, feral mutants, and worse. The Chapter recruits from both the hives, the agricultural complexes, and the wastelands, producing a mix of candidates from all backgrounds.

 

Chapter doctrine: the Red Guard tend to focus on heavy infantry and mechanized tactics, relying on heavy firepower laid down by their Tactical and Devastator Squads, with Assault squads used as a supplement to the main strategy. The Chapter's Scouts are used in supporting roles and are generally considered expendable due to massive recruitment pool available on (homeworld); as a result, most Chapter commanders would not think twice about sacrificing Scouts so that full battle-brothers may live. The Chapter will generally attempt to use all mechanized assets at their disposal, and will rarely enter field without at least some heavy firepower available from its armored assets.

 

Chapter organization: The Chapter high command adheres to the Codex Astartes, however, time and distance had since allowed for some deviation. The Red Guard have ten full Battle Companies (each known as "polk", and, collectively, as "polki"), with each Company responsible for its own recruitment, training and logistics. As a result, the Chapter's total numbers of Marines in the Battle Companies tend to be slightly over 1,000 due to each 100-strong Polk possessing an attached retinue of Scouts. These differences are not sufficient to warrant full-on Inquisitorial investigation, and most of the time, each Polk functions as a normal Codex-adherent company with its own chain of command. Every Polk answers to the Chapter Master, and all Captains are considered theoretically equal, however, in practice the Captain with the longest tenure is usually given seniority.

 

While each Company is allowed a small complement of Rhino transports, all other mechanized assets are considered to belong to the Chapter as a whole. Thus, at the beginning of campaign each Captain requisitions the available and necessary assets from the Chapter armory with an understanding that those vehicles will be returned after the campaign's conclusion. Similarly, Librarians, Chaplains and Techmarines are not permanently attached to any Polk, and usually only accompany the Battle Companies for the duration of the campaign. The Chapter's armory is attached to the Komitet, or High Command - the command structure of the Red Guard that includes the Chapter Master, the Librarium, the Reclusiam and other specialists that are not part of the standard Battle Companies. In a similar fashion, the Chapter's Dreadnaughts and its fleet of warships are under the Komitet's jurisdiction, and are not a part of any Polk.

 

Chapter beliefs: Life on (homeworld) breeds hard men well used to the concept of sacrifice, and the Red Guards' doctrine tends to reflect that. The battle brothers of the Chapter are expected to fight through insurmountable odds and to be prepared to do what it takes to achieve victory. This particular belief gave life to an impression that the Red Guards will sometimes willingly sacrifice allies in order to gain a battlefield advantage, although in truth, the Chapter's Marines are just as willing to lay their own lives on the line if the situation demands it. The Red Guards' core tenet could be summed up in one phrase - whatever it takes. They are tenacious if often dour, and are willing to pursue their objectives no matter the cost.

 

Red Guard venerates Rogal Dorn as an exemplar of what it meant to be human or Space Marine, and the Emperor as their reason for being, and the grantor of their mission. While their Chaplains would vehemently defy that their practices border on worship, both the Emperor and Dorn are ascribed near god-like qualities in the Chapter's sacred texts, and the Red Guards celebrate numerous holidays in honor of their progenitor's great deeds. Seeing Dorn as their exemplar and the Emperor as their moral compass, the Red Guards actively aspire to imitate their forebears through harsh, self-imposed regimen of martial exercise that hones both body and soul through self-deprivation, asceticism and meditative sessions aided by the Pain Glove.

 

Gene-seed: Red Guard shares the gene-seed of Rogal Dorn, and as such does not have the Belcher Gland or the Sus-an Membrane. Outside of those deficiencies shared by Dorn's line, the Chapter's gene-seed is pure and has been used to found at least two new Chapters.

[Hrvat]

How about having your Homeworld called Rodina?

 

Then your battlecry would eccho the Ultramarine "We march for Macragge!".

[Olis]

I like that idea. Simple, yet effective. :tu:

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Chapter's Scouts are used in supporting roles and are generally considered expendable due to massive recruitment pool available on (homeworld); as a result, most Chapter commanders would not think twice about sacrificing Scouts so that full battle-brothers may live.

Space Marine scouts STILL have gene-seed, so this policy is likely to result in the loss of a great number of gene-seed. Instead of scouts, how about sacrificing the Marine recruits who've yet to have gene-seed implanted? Seeing combat as such a recruit, can be justified as part of their combat training.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Also, how about using Codex: Space Wolves rules and stats for Red Guard scouts, so you can have a Space Marine counterpart to Spetsnaz?

[Gulag]

The Chapter's Scouts are used in supporting roles and are generally considered expendable due to massive recruitment pool available on (homeworld); as a result, most Chapter commanders would not think twice about sacrificing Scouts so that full battle-brothers may live.

Space Marine scouts STILL have gene-seed, so this policy is likely to result in the loss of a great number of gene-seed. Instead of scouts, how about sacrificing the Marine recruits who've yet to have gene-seed implanted? Seeing combat as such a recruit, can be justified as part of their combat training.

 

Progenoids aren't implanted until phase 18 of the creation process, so I think it is still possible.

[NightrawenII]

The Chapter's Scouts are used in supporting roles and are generally considered expendable due to massive recruitment pool available on (homeworld); as a result, most Chapter commanders would not think twice about sacrificing Scouts so that full battle-brothers may live.

Space Marine scouts STILL have gene-seed, so this policy is likely to result in the loss of a great number of gene-seed. Instead of scouts, how about sacrificing the Marine recruits who've yet to have gene-seed implanted? Seeing combat as such a recruit, can be justified as part of their combat training.

Progenoids aren't implanted until phase 18 of the creation process, so I think it is still possible.

That's the part of the problem. :P

If the progenoids are not implanted (and mature), then you have wasted one set of organs without any chance of recovery.

 

 

~NightrawenII.

[Gulag]

The Chapter's Scouts are used in supporting roles and are generally considered expendable due to massive recruitment pool available on (homeworld); as a result, most Chapter commanders would not think twice about sacrificing Scouts so that full battle-brothers may live.

Space Marine scouts STILL have gene-seed, so this policy is likely to result in the loss of a great number of gene-seed. Instead of scouts, how about sacrificing the Marine recruits who've yet to have gene-seed implanted? Seeing combat as such a recruit, can be justified as part of their combat training.

Progenoids aren't implanted until phase 18 of the creation process, so I think it is still possible.

That's the part of the problem. :P

If the progenoids are not implanted (and mature), then you have wasted one set of organs without any chance of recovery.

 

 

~NightrawenII.

 

Oh.

 

Well.

 

Yeah.

 

Right then, that is not good. Basic recruits w/o organs it is then.

[Midgard]

Valid point about the sacrificial Scouts... I need to think of a good way around that to carry over the themes I wanted to convey: the self-sacrificial and gloomy nature of the Chapter's culture; the super-elite status of the Space Marines (think of them as the Spetsnaz - in my understanding, this is what the Marines in the Imperium are), and the use of multiple "sacrificial pieces" to accomplish the objectives. In this, I am trying to convey the idea of Russian/Soviet military, which tended to include large masses of expendable troops that had at best average or below skill or training; the masses would serve to protect the extremely well-trained and equipped elite units that would deliver the killing blow.

 

I realize that much of this may be at odds with the basic idea of Space Marines - they are not a numbers-heavy army, and unless they are supplemented by Imperial Army troops, such tactics might be difficult to properly convey without losing the core of what the army is supposed to be about. That said, I am thinking of several fluff solutions, and am open to more ideas:

 

1) The Scouts are actually fully augmented, and do not see combat until after both of their progenoids have been collected (this way the progenoids are collected, and the Scouts are still expendable).

 

2) The "Scouts" are something of a household unit of unaugmented (other than very basic augmentations such as cybernetic implants, etc) humans that serve as an expendable unit, while all Marines do not enter combat until they are fully augmented.

 

With this in mind, I have a bit of better news as well. While it might take me a while to find time to work on this project, I might be able to start on the actual DIY table-top force much sooner than anticipated, thanks to the Christmas present from my in-laws. ;)

[Bjorn Firewalker]

1) The Scouts are actually fully augmented, and do not see combat until after both of their progenoids have been collected (this way the progenoids are collected, and the Scouts are still expendable).

IIRC, only ONE of the progenoid glands- the one in the neck- can be collected this way. The other- the one in the chest- can't be removed without killing the Marine. Besides, as Codex: Space Wolves suggests, the Marines need at least ONE progenoid gland to control the other implants- without it, the second heart and other organs won't work, and they'll likely die from organ rejection.

2) The "Scouts" are something of a household unit of unaugmented (other than very basic augmentations such as cybernetic implants, etc) humans that serve as an expendable unit, while all Marines do not enter combat until they are fully augmented.

This is what Chapter serfs- the many initiates who survived basic training, but were deemed "Not good enough," for conversion to full Marine- are for.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Perhaps they could run Chapter Serfs as units more so than Scout squads. Each company handles their own recruitment with a number serfs that they train up as lightly armed elite insertion mortals. These are the failed aspirants that survived, while they have the scouts who are basic scouts who do the slightly more dangerous tasks.

[Midgard]

Bjorn Firewalker: What I was thinking was how to represent my Scouts on tabletop in terms of fluff. I am definitely going to use Scout squads, but if they are to be fully sacrificial, they need to either already have their progenoids harvested (meaning they are technically full Marines, even if not very experienced ones), or they need to be household troops/failed aspirants/Chapter serfs augmented to be a rough Scout equivalent, so that they can be played using Scout rules.

 

Brother-Sergeant Bohemond: This is along the lines of what I was thinking, although I am still not entirely decided on the idea.

 

I am not entirely sure if this is the way I want to go just yet (i.e. the Scouts represented on the tabletop being either Chapter serfs, failed aspirants or some such, and therefore expendable)... Essentially, I would be giving the Scouts the role normally played by the Imperial Guard, which is not very universe-appropriate. This may result in me having to adjust the background, so that the Imperial Guard is considered sacrificial (but it tends to happen "off-screen"). Since the Red Guard are, for the most part, a Codex Chapter, it may make more sense to keep their recruitment process fairly standard, with the exception of each company being responsible for its own recruitment (and there are precedents of Chapters considered Codex-adherent doing that). Thus, perhaps the Red Guard homeworld raises large masses of PDF/Imperial Guard regiments, many of which accompany the Chapter on Campaign, and are used as essentially meat shields? This might be more in line with the overall Chapter philosophy I am going for.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

That could work, also, as you have accsess to more augmentation/better wargear for mere mortals, the carapace armour/Boltguns and higher s and t are 'justified' though, this is not a necessity at all in your IA. Like you said, it can happen 'off table' (possibly best to do it this way, actually)

[Midgard]

Real quick... while the actual IA will probably not get much work on it until January, I think I have finally figured out the color scheme. Below is my test miniature (spare AOBR Captain originally {and very badly} painted in Raven Guard colors), which will, at least for the time being, sub for my HQ choice. Excuse the painting skill (or the lack thereof) - I tried to go for a cleaner look that would allow the color scheme to show, but my painting skill is pretty meager, and I think it shows. Any feedback and criticism is appreciated!

 

http://www.counter-factual.net/Red_Guard_Captain_1.JPG

[Midgard]

Edited the first post in the thread with the few definite facts, new color scheme, and the sole painted miniature; renamed the thread to reflect the final chapter name. This thread will be updated as I get time to work on additional details for the Red Guard, and as the IA takes more definite shape. Thank you to everybody who responded and provided feedback - it was invaluable in conceptualizing these guys and getting closer to the actual business of IA writing (never mind the glacial pace so far). As always, C&C are welcome! :P

[Andrew J]

I think you should go with the IG idea. That would make the most sense fluff wise while fitting into the Soviet theme. Tabletop wise you could just have them as allies and paint them in the same general colors.

[Midgard]

I think you should go with the IG idea. That would make the most sense fluff wise while fitting into the Soviet theme. Tabletop wise you could just have them as allies and paint them in the same general colors.

 

This is probably what I am going to go after - the Red Guard are the Spetsnaz equivalent, not necessarily a representation of the Red Army. As I do not currently own an IG army and doubt I will build one any time soon, I will probably just have to keep the "sacrificial" nature of IG/PDF regiments as a "flavor" item in the IA, but the concept is definitely going to make it in ;) It might even warrant a "sidebar" explaining the nature of IG regiments drawn from the Red Guard homeworld and accompanying the Chapter into battle :D

[Midgard]

Just a quick bump to state that this IA is not dead, even if I did no work on it for the past half a year (how the time flies!).

 

Several possible changes I am contemplating:

 

1) Genetic origin may (or may not) change from Dorn to The Lion. My reasons for it are, admittedly, a bit selfish - I expect to get at least one or two of new edition starter sets, and the Marines therein might be sculpted to have pauldrons with Dark Angels heraldry. As I don't want to remove the heraldry, and think the starter sets might be much more cost-effective in building up the bulk of my forces, I can justify it as being part of an "elite" company that uses heraldry of the parent Legion. Which will also segue into...

 

2) If I go with the Dark Angels gene-seed idea, I might slightly alter the Chapter's outlook and philosophy to be more paranoid than stubborn (which, in all honesty, would not alter the basic concept of Russian/Soviet-themed Marines that much, and would even add more authenticity to it). While I am not very interested in the Hunt, I can definitely utilize the concept of it in a way that only several Companies would ever become aware of the Fallen, while most Companies would be utilized in more standard Space Marine roles. Considering that even non-Inner Circle Companies promote paranoia and ruthlessness in dealing with external groups, it would not be a far stretch from here to the Hunt.

 

3) With the release of the 6th edition, I have a full excuse to build another force as "allies". I might build a small Dark Angels force specifically as allies, leaving the Chapter as proud sons of Dorn. Alternatively, I can have an allied Imperial Guard force (i.e. the meat shields alluded to earlier). At this point I am undecided, but am open to input.

 

So... shall the Red Guard become sons of the Lion, or shall they remain the progeny of Dorn, with all resulting effects?

[Ace Debonair]

So... shall the Red Guard become sons of the Lion, or shall they remain the progeny of Dorn, with all resulting effects?

 

Honestly? I reckon you should go with whichever Primarch you think is coolest. :D

 

It's totally not hard to incorporate a DA badge onto your marines. Perhaps on your Chapter's homeworld the winged sword could be commonly used as a symbol of military power. Or maybe even used just within the chapter as a badge of honour for long-serving marines, or something.

 

The 'whatever it takes' attitude is pretty cool! I'll try and keep an eye on this chapter. ^_^

 

EDIT:

Damn all typos.