Descent of Angels & Fallen Angels

[BJORNin83]

I know these are 2 of the older books in the series, but I purposely skipped them so I could read them back to back before the latest book came out. I must admit, I tried to read Decent of Angels before and put it down within 50pages, I just couldn't get into the whole pre-imperium world of Caliban. I finally pushed through it and I must say I'm so glad I did. These were 2 of the better books IMO. The way they slowly show Luther's fall is supurb, and the character developments are really easy to take in. I'm very disappointed at where Fallen Angels left off....will there be a 3rd book detailing the Lions return to Caliban? If so, I'm guessing its gonna be a LONG time before we see it, as the great Siege has to be written first.

[Coryphaus 101]

Books aren't written in chronological order so the third book might not be too far away. I agree with you, I really like these two books.

[Morollan]

I enjoyed the second one but the first was pretty awful (IMO). It was painfully slow to get going and then it looked like the editor decided that the final 4 chapters needed to go and just wrote "And Jonson sent Luther to bed with no tea. The end".

[Captain Semper]

First book slow, boring and pointless... Second book slightly better with the weird and unneccessary ending that adds nothing to the book, the characters or the general story line.. And two characters throughout the books that you don't care if they lived or died. Actually if they died I'd be somewhat happier...

[Grimdarkness]

I enjoyed the books but I really hope where done with Zahriel I think that his name these should never have being labeled as HH books IMO since they added nothing to the series.

 

 

I,m looking forward to seeing the DA and SW rush to return to terra when they learn of the attack, maybe even a book that shows what the two legions where fighting before they got the recall.

[Legionator]

"Descent of Angels" is one of my favorites in HH series, maybe it is because I love knight tales. Most people found this book irrelevant to HH but I think if you read it without prejudice, you can enjoy a pretty decent tale and learn much about roots of Dark Angels.

[DamonD]

Having heard so much criticism, finally getting round to it I did enjoy Descent of Angels. No argument from me about the rather too rushed ending, but perhaps as I went into it expecting it be about Caliban's pre-Heresy history I was able to enjoy it more than if that'd been sprung on me. It was the first in the series to do that and I think that was part of the problem people had with it.

 

Haven't read Fallen Angels yet.

[BJORNin83]

I guess I'll admit that the ending of DOA was a little rushed, and that maybe DOA shouldn't have been included in the HH series, but it definitely gave alot of detail and back story to the characters in FA. I'm surprised at the dislike of the Zahariel and Nemiel characters, especially seeing how close they were to El' Jonson and gave a glimpse into the Primarchs habits and personality. I like how it leaves open to debate on why Jonsen sent the Calibanites and Luther back to Caliban and how each side views it. I read Angels of Darkness last year before these, so I already had some back story from Astelan and how he tried to justify what Luther did.

 

The kicker for me was

 

 

SPOILER

the whole time thinking the Terran cabal sorcerers were trying to conjure that chaos worm from the warp, when in reality they were trying to rid Caliban of its taint and send it BACK into the warp, and how Luther tricked Zahariel into helping keep the taint manifested on Caliban.

[Mac the knife]

Thought the take away was the Terran Cabal WAS trying to conjure the daemon that slept on Caliban and that it highlighted Luther's Descent into Madness and Heresy. /shrug

[Zincite]

I really liked the first book, second one was far more 'meh.' I only really liked it because it was about the Dark Angels, and judging it without that makes it look far worse.

 

But then, I loved Porspero Burns, and Nemesis is the best book I've ever read. Ever.

 

I Think it depends on how people judge their books. If you look for writing skill and background, then Decent of Angels is brilliant. Whereas content relating to the HH, awesome Astartes battles, etc, isn't actually there.

 

Is it just me, or are 40K books so much better when there're not about Space Marines?

[Ubermensch Commander]

I really enjoyed the 1st book, with its detailing of a pre-Imperial Caliban. It gave context for WHY discontent and discord could take root in the Dark Angels Legion (and, by proxy for differing reasons, in other Legions). It also gave an interesting perspective on the nature of a Primarch from a human view. Whereas in Thousand Sons or The First Heretic we have the largely worshipful and dutiful gene-enhanced sons, with Luther and the Lion we can see an unaugmented human comrade of a Primarch and his view of the being. That whole "jokes going above everyones head" discussion was terrific, IMO.

 

*disclaimer* I loved the old 2nd edition background fluff about the Knights of Caliban with their bolt pistols and chainswords but lacking other advanced tech. Descent of Angels expanded on that information. Yay.

 

Like Zincite, I also enjoyed Nemesis, finding it a great book that demonstrated how the massive Imperial Government worked, the echelons of power and their relation to the Emperor and his ideals, and everything that was going on BEYOND the Legions. The Heresy the entirety of the Imperium and it was nice to see that.

 

Enjoyed the 2nd book as well, demonstrating a society in turmoil as the Imperium settles in.

[Coryphaus 101]

Descent of Angels is like the Star Wars Episode 2 for the Horus Heresy series: slow, sometimes boring but sets up a lot and is quite enjoyable for some people (although I didn't really like Attack of the Clones but I like Descent of Angels)

[Sparhawk]

I really liked the first book, second one was far more 'meh.' I only really liked it because it was about the Dark Angels, and judging it without that makes it look far worse.

 

But then, I loved Porspero Burns, and Nemesis is the best book I've ever read. Ever.

 

I Think it depends on how people judge their books. If you look for writing skill and background, then Decent of Angels is brilliant. Whereas content relating to the HH, awesome Astartes battles, etc, isn't actually there.

 

Is it just me, or are 40K books so much better when there're not about Space Marines?

 

I'm not sure if it's Space Marines or the weird tendency to make the SM characters caricatures of their legion (Battle for the Abyss is by far the most egregious offender in this category). Personally my favorite 40K books are the Ciaphis Cain books and Abnett's Inquisitor trilogies (Eisenhorn and Ravenor) and I found those more enjoyable for the character interactions. I'm not much for the bolter porn that some of these books can turn into mainly because most people seem to have a difficult time writing an action sequence that you can follow along with.

[Zincite]

Descent of Angels is like the Star Wars Episode 2 for the Horus Heresy series: slow, sometimes boring but sets up a lot and is quite enjoyable for some people .

I personally dislike that particular movie, but nonetheless it's a good comparison.

[BJORNin83]

Thought the take away was the Terran Cabal WAS trying to conjure the daemon that slept on Caliban and that it highlighted Luther's Descent into Madness and Heresy. /shrug

Noooo, there was a point near the end of the book.....it seems like EVERY Horus Heresy book has that ONE kicker line at the end that just makes the whole read worthwhile, and this was it for me.

 

edit:

page 408

 

The foul touch of the enemy lay on his soul like a rime of black frost. It had never left him, because in truth the entity had never left, either. It was still there, deep beneath the earth, where it had laid for millions upon millions of years. The psychic bridge he'd witness beneath the Northwilds arcology hadn't been to draw the being through into the physical realm from the warp, like at Sarosh, but to send it back.

Zarahiel knew the source of Calibans taint, and he knew its name.

 

 

At first, the author wants the reader to believe the Terrans are the bad guys, and that Luther and Zarahiel are trying to find them and stop them, but in reality, its reverse. So yes, it does highlight Luthers descent into madness and heresy.

[Captain Idaho]

Descent of Angels felt irrelevent since it was a very indulgent book for BL to create. No other Legion or Primarch gets a tale before the coming of the Emperor, and such a treat for DA fans is fine, except it was advertised as a Horus Heresy book. There are many people in the higher echleons of GW management who are big fans of DA and influential enough to encourage such an indulgence, so I have my suspicions on the real sanction of the first book.

 

The author was either allowed or encouraged to concentrate on a part of a novel which essentially had none of the components of 40k fiction we come to recognise. It dwelled too long on the history behind the Lion when other books in the series concentrate on the character of the Legions etc.

 

Sure A D-B will confirm this isn't the case with how the book was created, but it's how it felt when reading it, unfortunately.

 

Secondly, the author failed to import the magnificence of a Primarch in either book. I really wasn't impressed with him or felt he was a Primarch at all which is a big failing of both books.

 

Thirdly, if I was a DA player I'd be upset there was very little back ground material revealed on the interesting stuff of the Crusade. The time with the Space Wolves for example would be great to read.

 

Then again, I think GW needs to create a Great Crusade Series to flesh out each Legion. Now that would be awesome!

[Captain Semper]

Descent of Angels felt irrelevent since it was a very indulgent book for BL to create. No other Legion or Primarch gets a tale before the coming of the Emperor, and such a treat for DA fans is fine, except it was advertised as a Horus Heresy book.

 

Fully agree... Like fully!

 

There are many people in the higher echleons of GW management who are big fans of DA and influential enough to encourage such an indulgence, so I have my suspicions on the real sanction of the first book.

 

If they are I just wish they exert more authority :eek

 

The author was either allowed or encouraged to concentrate on a part of a novel which essentially had none of the components of 40k fiction we come to recognise. It dwelled too long on the history behind the Lion when other books in the series concentrate on the character of the Legions etc.

 

Again I'm in agreement. The Lion himself is nowhere near as fleshed out as other Primarchs dispite BL producing two books that had the opportunity to do just that. Despite the outcome of the duel between the Lion and Curze (which I didn't like), ADB managed to give more insight on the Lion in a short story than two full novels put together...

 

Secondly, the author failed to import the magnificence of a Primarch in either book. I really wasn't impressed with him or felt he was a Primarch at all which is a big failing of both books.

 

I would say "Secondly and most importantly...".

 

Fallen Angels ending to me was an unecessary and confusing thing that added nothing to the story, the big picture or the Lion's awesomeness (that you'd expect from a Primarch of that calibre).

 

Thirdly, if I was a DA player I'd be upset there was very little back ground material revealed on the interesting stuff of the Crusade. The time with the Space Wolves for example would be great to read.

 

I am a DA player and I am upset that two books down all we get a small skirmish the outcome of which is null. What was the author's aim? If this book was not written or if the Lion decided not to bother with the siege engines - which were not part of the pre-existing background anyway, they were created only for the needs of the novel- and continue his campaign what would have changed? It contributed nothing where the Lion is concerned. It contributed nothing in the big picture...

 

Then again, I think GW needs to create a Great Crusade Series to flesh out each Legion. Now that would be awesome!

 

Good idea. And a post Heresy series at that!

[BJORNin83]

Thirdly, if I was a DA player I'd be upset there was very little back ground material revealed on the interesting stuff of the Crusade. The time with the Space Wolves for example would be great to read.

Gotta agree with this. It sounds to me like it happened sometime between the Sarosh campaign and the assault on Diamat. And your also right in the author not really making me FEEL like I'm reading about a Primarch. He just seemed like a Post-Heresy Chapter Master or something...

[Legionator]

Then again, I think GW needs to create a Great Crusade Series to flesh out each Legion. Now that would be awesome!

 

Good idea. And a post Heresy series at that!

 

It could be good but they uncovered many things about the Great Crusade in HH series and I am afraid there is not enough exciting event to create a whole new series like HH. However, more books about pre-Heresy legions in HH series (such as Descent of Angels) can be a good idea.

[Jim Shady]

Sure A D-B will confirm this isn't the case with how the book was created, but it's how it felt when reading it, unfortunately.

 

That might be awhile. Seeing as he stated on his blog that he'll be taking a step back from here and the other forums.

[Pavement Artist]

I've said it before and i'll say it again: I liked Descent of Angels.

 

Caliban is as much a character within the Dark Angels story as Luther or the Lion. You may not like the fact that it wasn't mariney enough for you but the fact is you had to explore the relationship between those characters and how it developed long before the involvement of the imperium. Im sure once the DA get a concluding novel, it'll make much more sense.

[Captain Idaho]

Caliban is as much a character within the Dark Angels story as Luther or the Lion. You may not like the fact that it wasn't mariney enough for you but the fact is you had to explore the relationship between those characters and how it developed long before the involvement of the imperium. Im sure once the DA get a concluding novel, it'll make much more sense.

 

I doubt any new novel will make Descent of Angels more relevant. For a novel supposedly billed as giving us information on the character of the DA, it seemed to miss the mark when considering Johnson or the Marines as actually crusaders in the Great Crusade rather than children. The focus was all wrong in that book and unless you are a DA fan you likely would have felt the same.

[Ubermensch Commander]

Caliban is as much a character within the Dark Angels story as Luther or the Lion. You may not like the fact that it wasn't mariney enough for you but the fact is you had to explore the relationship between those characters and how it developed long before the involvement of the imperium. Im sure once the DA get a concluding novel, it'll make much more sense.

 

I doubt any new novel will make Descent of Angels more relevant. For a novel supposedly billed as giving us information on the character of the DA, it seemed to miss the mark when considering Johnson or the Marines as actually crusaders in the Great Crusade rather than children. The focus was all wrong in that book and unless you are a DA fan you likely would have felt the same.

 

I am not sure I agree regarding the books irrelevance.

Descent of Angels is important in that it gives context as the defining quality of the DA in the later 40K universe: their schism.

C. Idaho, you mentioned them being children. An interesting assertion and one I feel is applicable to all the traitors. But, putting that aside, we can see some explanation within DoA as to how and why near on half of the Legion turned traitor.

We see a planet with a proud tradition all its own, struggling with newfound change being forced upon it. A definite source of tension, particularly with old guard proto marines filling up the ranks of the Legion. And Luther himself, the right hand and closest confidant of the Primarch, is a proto marine! A "mere mortal" as it were, in a place of honor. Bound to puff up the pride of those in the Legion and make the apparent "betrayal" and perceived abandonment hurt that much more.

Following that, there is the issue of Chaos at the heart of the planet, and nascent tendrils of corruption reaching out and touching on vulnerable hearts and minds and feeding on the tension and bloodshed. Not to mention the potential question raised about "wait, could some of the populace be Chaos touched?"

With Luther, we have a proud and capable man, through whose efforts Caliban was primed to be reconquered....and then the Lion came.

So we have an expansion of themes already present in the Dark Angels background, which is arguably one of the primary, if not THE primary purpose, of the HH series (yknow, beside providing us with entertainment :) ) and some relevance to aforementioned 40K fluffyness.

We see similar trends occurring in the first 3 books centered around Horus: an expansion of background and some explaining of how/ why such a betrayal could occur.

Whether or not one finds the reasons compelling enough aside, it does have some gravitas and merit by fleshing it out.

[Brother Nihm]

Oh I couldn't agree more, it just grinds me that they had to shoe-horn it into a series which was up until that book, heavily centered around what the title of the series is, namely the Horus Heresy. Now I could have accepted it as a mini-prequel, if it was written better and structured more towards the events to come, but it wasn't, imho.

 

I have often considered pulling it off the bookshelf where I keep my HH collection because I honestly feels that it has no place there, and I am a crazy collector who prize complete collections! (which is why I haven't done it, yet)

 

The second book was an expertly executed 'rescue'.

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[Captain Idaho]

C. Idaho, you mentioned them being children. An interesting assertion and one I feel is applicable to all the traitors. But, putting that aside, we can see some explanation within DoA as to how and why near on half of the Legion turned traitor.

 

No, I meant it literally, not as an insult! :tu: The main two characters of the book, one of which is the main protagonist, is an actual child for much of the book. He doesn't really act much like one, but the point I was making is there is much personality and reasoning and reactions to stress conditions which won't transfer or be the same from child to Space Marine, especially after all the psycho-conditioning etc.