Claws of Corax Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The Blood Angels have previously been listed as a Codex Divergent Chapter; holding true to the core of the codex astartes while have an aspect that cannot be accounted for in the Codex Astartes.. Previously this was Death Company. With the introduction of Sanguinary Guard, Librarian Dreadnaughts, Elite (Independat Character) Apothecaries. Are the blood Angels now too divergent to be classed as divergent and now fully non-codex. The Sanguinary guard for example are half a company in strength causing the BA to exceed the 10 companies of 100 marines limit Does this warrent reclasifying the Blood Angels as a non codex chapter. Claws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemisor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 i would say the are still divergent. simply becasue the company structure (6 tacticals, 2 assaults, 2 devs) and chapter structure ( coy 1 = vetrans, coy 2-6 = battle etc) is still codex. with things like sang guard and DC as extras. the priest thing? well we probibly have the same amount of priests as other chapters have apothacarys, we just have ours as elete IC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 We are a codex-based chapter, but had to make some alterations to the depicted chapter structure due to the Red Thirst and the Black Rage. That's it, actually. Oh, and that '1000 marines in a chapter, not one more' is pretty rubbish. It is only half true as this only includes battle-brothers within the companies, not those who are listed as specialist forces, in our case honour guard, sanguinary guard or DC. This is true for other chapters as well. Counting all marines(also techmarines and stuff) you will be around 1100 marines per chapter(this is only an approximation by myself). The Sanguinary Priesthood is also present in other chapters - they are called apothecaries. The Priesthood has the same rank as the Reclusium in our chapter, 'cause of the Ward and the Flaw. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws of Corax Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 I would happily accept that the Blood Angels have a core structure in accordance with the Codex Astartes (1 Veteran Company, 4 Battle Companies, 2 Tactical Companies, 1 Assault Company, 1 Devastator Company and a Scout Company). My concern is that we have half a company (49 Sanguinary Guard + Sepharan) that are well and truly outside the strictures of the Codex Astartes. Claws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 My memory says only 29 Sanguinary Guard, so more a third of a company. Add to that death company, and we probably have 1100 or so marines. There is a great librarium article on the "1000 marine myth" which concludes a normal chapter after adding in the chaplains, librarians, commanders, command squads, techmarines, apothecaries, and drivers for vehicles is probably around 1500 marines. Ignore the whole Apothecary as elites thing. That is us diverging from the Space Marine Codex rulebook, not the Codex Astartes. And every chapter probably has Librarians in dreadnoughts, we just got rules for it. In terms of most things we try to be codex. Sure we have our quirks, like the Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. But in most areas that matter, we are codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well as far as I understood Sanquinary Guards are not really a quirk but BA equivalent of UM honour guard with super spiffy jumpacks and extra special armour. There is even roughy an equal number of each in both chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws of Corax Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Good point. I had completely forgotten about SG being equivalant of honour guard for Ultramarines. I feel like a bit of a numpty now.. I will concede to the very valid points that the BA are indeed codex divergent. Claws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Good point. I had completely forgotten about SG being equivalant of honour guard for Ultramarines. I feel like a bit of a numpty now.. I will concede to the very valid points that the BA are indeed codex divergent. Claws Not... sure. Ultramarines - Codex Dark Angels - Codex adherent Salamanders - Codex divergent Space Wolves - non-Codex This would put Blood Angels in the Codex adherent category. Cheers, NightrawenII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Good point. I had completely forgotten about SG being equivalant of honour guard for Ultramarines. I feel like a bit of a numpty now.. I will concede to the very valid points that the BA are indeed codex divergent. Claws Not... sure. Ultramarines - Codex Dark Angels - Codex adherent Salamanders - Codex divergent Space Wolves - non-Codex This would put Blood Angels in the Codex adherent category. Cheers, NightrawenII. +1. That basically says all, we are Codex adherent. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Even the Death Company isn't divergent fluff-wise, the 3rd edition Rites of Initiation IA article - which was so important it was also up on the GW site till the late 4th/early 5th website overhaul - when covering the unreliable nature of the implantation process mentioned that failed implantees usually wind up either as drooling vegetables or psychotic lunatics, with the latter generally being executed in full strength chapters or fielded as suicide assault squads in under-strength ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vharing Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I dont think the DC can really be counted as extra marines since most of them die after a battle. Whatever lose taken to a company would be replaced later on with initiates from the scout company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Well, they aren't extra marines. They're simply Marines moved out from their original squad, and formed into ad-hoc units. The Blood Angels don't magically create extra marines to make up for the ones that get overtaken by the Black Rage. As others have said, they're Codex adherant. They have different heraldry and titles (allowed for in the Codex), they have Librarian Dreadnoughts (other Chapters should have them too, or do no other Librarians ever get entombed?), they have the Sanguinary Guard (allowed for under the Codex, ref. the Ultramarines and their Honour Guard), they have faster vehicles (independant manfucaturing makes complete standardisation across all Chapters utterly impossible, so the Codex doesn't have anything against this), and they have the Death Company (follows the Codex as they're existing Marines formed into ad-hoc units to best take advantage of the current situation). Nothing divergant at all, really, they just have a Flaw in their geneseed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 +1 to Lord_Caerolion We are fully Codex adherent, with only minimum change to accommodate our unique biology. We also have a few more toys but we use them as the codex dictates such this would typically be used. The only difference I can find between BA and UM, after a few equities, is the use of Sang. Priests as ICs. For that, you have to remember that Chaplains have a slightly different duty in our chapter (watching the D.Co.) This left the duties of spiritual health and battlefield motivation up to our Apothecaries. In order to fill this needed duty (something the codex mandates all chapters do) the needed to be in more places than just command units. By the codex, it's better to think of our Sang. Priests as both Apothecaries and Chaplains while our Chaplains are something else entirely that we have thanks to the curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 And yet, just like the Librarian Dreadnoughts, every Chapter should get IC apothecaries, or do the Ultramarines only ever care about providing aid to their Captains? Apothecaries are described as "wandering", and at the very least they can't do their job if all they ever do is follow around a particular commander. "Sorry Vet. Sergeant Bob, I know you've been bleeding out from multiple wounds for the last few hours, but the battle wasn't over, so I had to follow Captain Jim! I would've gotten here sooner, but... oops, he's dead..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushman101 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Salamanders - Codex divergent Hmm...not to derail the thread, but how are the Sallies divergent? Do they use a different company formation like the Space Wolves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Salamanders - Codex divergent Hmm...not to derail the thread, but how are the Sallies divergent? Do they use a different company formation like the Space Wolves? 7 Companies of 140ish marines each. That's pretty divergent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Also, they have no Chapter Master, but instead their 1st Captain is the Regent of Prometheus, as they still recognize Vulkan as their Chapter Master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws of Corax Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Isn't Tu Shan the Chapter Master of the Sallys? And Vulkan an honoury position to recover the lost artifacts of the Primarch Vulkan? Claws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 7 Companies of 140ish marines each. That's pretty divergent. When did it become 140 each? It used to be 6 of 120 plus a half size scout company of 60. (a total far less than '1000' and acknowledged as such in the IA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Isn't Tu Shan the Chapter Master of the Sallys? And Vulkan an honoury position to recover the lost artifacts of the Primarch Vulkan? Claws No, Tu'Shan is the Regent, so he's basically the acting chapter Master. For his actual position within the Chapter, he's still the Captain of 1st Company, and therefore not the actual Chapter Master. Secondly, I didn't mean the Forgefather (who gets named Vulkan when he gets the position, but the rank isn't called Vulkan, it's Forgefather), I meant the Primarch. The Salamanders still consider Primarch Vulkan to be the leader of their Chapter, so they've never had anyone fill the position, instead having their second-most senior position, that of First Company Captain, act as the Chapter Master. He has the same authority, but he doesn't have the actual position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 7 Companies of 140ish marines each. That's pretty divergent. When did it become 140 each? It used to be 6 of 120 plus a half size scout company of 60. (a total far less than '1000' and acknowledged as such in the IA) When I misremembered the number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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