The new Necrons

[Ragnars Claw]

So i have a game against them at the weekend, first one against the new codex.

 

Any heads up?

 

What do we need to watch out for? whats hot against wolves and whats not?

[Wulfebane]

Mm...

Top of my head, lots of range, more than a handful ranged S8+ weapons (a few are S10), and some teleporting/deep strike special units to watch for.

 

Off the bat, one would think they'd suck in cc, but they've got some frightening infiltrate units and unless you knock out the whole squad, whatever you killed has a 33-50% chance of coming back and immediately piling in.

 

They're pretty much all I2, including special characters, so a Rune Priest or four is pretty critical, but this won't stop them from coming back unless you take out the whole squad that turn.

 

A few of their more unique units and HQs are T5, so if you wanna avoid them striking back in cc, I'd vote for frost weapons to replace the I1 thammers and pfists.

 

IMO focus down a single squad on your turn to assure you obliterate a squad instead of taking out fractions of multiple squads and chancing them all returning to full strength on their turn.

 

Oh and PS, read the Deathmark special rules before deciding to reserve/ droppod any of your units.

[Hear da Lamentation]

I haven't seen the new rules, but I played necron a few times when I first started, and I quickly learnt a big weakness with them, which was partly why I changed armies. That as well as finding out for the first time there was something called Space Wolves, who were vikings in space ... at the same time as the new codex came out. What's not to love :)

 

Anyway ... the weakness was being swept. You only have to beat a necron unit in combat for them to have the make a ld check. Win convincingly enough and they have little chance of making that check. Then you sweep, they have initiative 2, so you are very likely to wipe unit out. There is no "we'll be back" for a unit wipe out. These rules may have changed in the new codex though.......

[-Leman Russ-]

From personal expierence:

 

- Take as many Rune Priests as you can, if possible take 4. JotWW will make you feel like you are cheating.

-Also, if you plan on taking Long Fangs, take 1 Rune Priest with them for Storm Caller. I can almost gurantee they will be getting hit by something long range.

 

- Assault whenever possible, their low intiative makes them much easier to deal with at CC then at range.

- Fast attack units bikers/skyclaws/cavalry will all do very well, especially TWC!

 

- Keep scarabs away from vehicles, Missile Launcher fangs are pretty good at this.

 

- Their vehicles are tough, come prepared (melta/lascannon/missile launchers/melta bombs etc.......)

 

- This would be the first time I would ever suggest this... but keep away from using scouts/pods those deathmarks will hurt ALOT

 

- If possible, keep everything in a vehicle at the start. They have respectable fire power, and if you aren't going first it will definitly hurt.

 

- Do not be scared of their fancy HQ's/Elites, weaken them from a range and assault, do not feel compelled to run away.

 

 

- If you take anything from this, make sure its "TAKE THE FIGHT TO THEM"

[Lord Ragnarok]

If you have land raiders they have some type of ability to reduce the AV on all sides. Not sure how this works.

[WyrdWolf]

Scarabs eat the armor off vehicles, and they're really annoying if you get stuck in with them as they have a bunch of wounds, but since they're weak against templates, blast or flame them before they get there and they'll fizzle.

[Niiai]

Look out for scarabs (fast and good vs mech swarm beasts) wraights (CC powerhouses and jump infantetry) doomsday barge (death death death!) night fighting (several ways to force you to fight in night fighting)

 

CC is ace vs them. They have a 24 threath range ebsides what above.

[Emptyedens]

I just played a 1250 tournament against them. Decent player was controlling but my mass of plasma made him cry. I have 2 plasma cannons with my LF and 1 each on the dreads I run. Chewed him to pieces. Tabled him by turn 4 only taking 2 WG as causalities. Though that may be because his Monolith rolled a 2 on a deep strike mishap on turn 3....

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Beware of Descent of Angels and Vanguard Veterans, as they'll be able to target your Long Fangs on the drop.

 

Sanguinary Priests give FNP, so try to get power weapons, etc. [basically not Bolters] to deal with those getting the buff.

 

They might get a 2+ Ward save for a few things too, but I cannot remember which exactly.

 

Hope that helps.

[Nrthstar]

Beware of Descent of Angels and Vanguard Veterans, as they'll be able to target your Long Fangs on the drop.

 

Sanguinary Priests give FNP, so try to get power weapons, etc. [basically not Bolters] to deal with those getting the buff.

 

They might get a 2+ Ward save for a few things too, but I cannot remember which exactly.

 

Hope that helps.

 

I can't tell if this is a joke, or he juzt forgot what the thread was about.

 

Anywho, i've been play testing this dex against my self since crons are my second army. Best thing that works for me is just do what we do best, bring a balanced list. They're strong on the midfield but can't survive cc. Yes every time a scarab hits, your armor goes down one. Multiply that by their decent number of attacks and 3 bases and they can eat any vehicle. But like they said before, just move your vehicles.

 

If they bring spiders to mass spawn scarabs, move a lot. People have already been broadcasting this insane tactic on a few blogs. Spiders can create scarabs beyond the max squad size, so three spiders can equal a lot of scarabs. But unless this is a total cheese fight i wouldn't worry. Just be aggressive. Get in his face.

[Xeenos]

Poor Templar lost his mind. :P

[Hfran Morkai]

I believe our dear friend Wilhelm was poking fun at the Blood Angels/Necron double team in the BA codex, hence the Ward Save part instead of invulnerable save.

[the jeske]

remember its not auto -1AV its on +4 .

[breng77]

Wow... it is amazing how many people have bad info about the new Necrons.

 

The army is majority T4 (at least their troops, some T5 in HQ elites and fast depending on what they take)

 

They get back up 33% of the time assuming no Resorb (it is expensive to get many of these) but cannot do so if the squad is wiped out or falls back.

 

Close combat all the way, you'll win and likely sweep the unit (at which point they are gone.

 

Don't worry about Deathmarks as far as Drop pod/reserve. They can deepstrike after you denter by deep strike, but it is not as if they are allowed to shoot when they come in so given their 24" range, they'll come in via DS and die (they have some interesting combos, but again hardly anthing that would force you not to reserve or DS.)

 

Not very many S8+ weapons (max is around 10, unless they spam heavy destroyers, then it could be up to 20ish) mostly S 7 shooting, and not very long range 24-36" range on most guns.

[Wulfebane]

Wow... it is amazing how many people have bad info about the new Necrons.

 

The army is majority T4 (at least their troops, some T5 in HQ elites and fast depending on what they take)

 

They get back up 33% of the time assuming no Resorb (it is expensive to get many of these) but cannot do so if the squad is wiped out or falls back.

 

Close combat all the way, you'll win and likely sweep the unit (at which point they are gone.

 

Don't worry about Deathmarks as far as Drop pod/reserve. They can deepstrike after you denter by deep strike, but it is not as if they are allowed to shoot when they come in so given their 24" range, they'll come in via DS and die (they have some interesting combos, but again hardly anthing that would force you not to reserve or DS.)

 

Not very many S8+ weapons (max is around 10, unless they spam heavy destroyers, then it could be up to 20ish) mostly S 7 shooting, and not very long range 24-36" range on most guns.

 

I'll stand corrected on the T5 models (and edited accordingly), but otherwise you haven't really said anything new, so don't come in debunking what everyone else has said, assuming you're the only one with the right answers.

 

As for not very many S8+ weapons and most being S7 - Back of the codex has 9x weapons at or above S8 (2 of which are S10) and 3 'X' values.

 

There are only 3x S7 weapons.

[Max_Dammit]

and that mind shackle, i dont like that power one bit with my uber CC dudes ;)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I believe our dear friend Wilhelm was poking fun at the Blood Angels/Necron double team in the BA codex, hence the Ward Save part instead of invulnerable save.

 

*bro fists Mikal Wolfheart* ;)

[Coverfire]

Okay first off I was wondering:

 

Reanimation protocols, the new We'll Be Back; I have been told that they roll at the end of each phase, so they get multiple chance to stand up again? Do they ever die? or do they just keep rolling until all have fallen? Once I find out the rules for that I can ask further questions on shooting/weapons.

 

Scrabs; nasty, nasty creatures - whats their movement? and if they still have the swarm rule first the first time ever, fielding a Redeemer appeals to me.

 

Players have spoken about Deathmarks but not mentioned any specifics? help me out?

 

With Quantum Shielding, sounds like missile spam (as much as I try to avoid it) will be ideal. With split fire you can just take pop-shots at several vehicles instead of focusing on trying to destroy one at a time.

 

I really want to give Lone Wolves a go, but can't seem to build a list that is cost effective and is balanced the way I would like; but they might work out against Necrons if they can get into CC.

 

Monolith strength tests sound very nasty - Logan drop Podding with MM long Fangs sounds awfully appealing, at least until I find out more about death mark; Likewise Podding Rune Priests with Jaws to deal with infantry also sounds like it could hinder Necrons, despite the fact that they can use their Reanimation Protocols, combined with mass bolter fire it might slow them down enough.

 

Eidt: Sepllnig Msikates and; punctuation?!?.

[breng77]

I'll stand corrected on the T5 models (and edited accordingly), but otherwise you haven't really said anything new, so don't come in debunking what everyone else has said, assuming you're the only one with the right answers.

 

except for mentioning the not getting up when falling back.

 

Mentioning that you don't need to worry about deathmarks and deepstriking(One because most competitive lists won't be running them, and 2 because you would get to shoot them first.)

 

and that they don't really have long range (only 2 weapons that have range greater than 36", and most weapons are 24" range)

 

 

As for not very many S8+ weapons and most being S7 - Back of the codex has 9x weapons at or above S8 (2 of which are S10) and 3 'X' values.

 

There are only 3x S7 weapons.

 

Yes there are more types of weapons, but unlikely more of them in any given list. Especially those that seem competitive. You list two S10 weapons, one of which is the tachyon arrow, which is only on HQ models and is a one shot weapon, the other is the deathray which is costly and also likely one shot. At S 9 you have Heavy Gauss Cannons which you might see on heavy destroyers (so there could be 9 in an army, but those are in the same slot as Scarabs and Wraiths, which most builds are running so it is unlikely that you will see that many) or on the Stalker which most people see to leave with its stock weapon (also S 8), otherwise you are talking about the doomsday cannon fired when not moving, which is pretty good, but again not a unit I see making it into many lists (stationary vehicles are not all that great and again it is very costly). Then you get to S 8, the Heat Ray (max or 3 in any army), The particle whip on the monolith, which seems to be falling out of favor, but people have them so you might see one. Other than that it is the eldritch lance, which is only on Crypteks max 10 in an army, so max an army could field is is 27 S 8 or higher shots, this would run them 2105 points and include no troop choices, where as space wolf lists can easily get that in less than 2000 points. with troops. The reason I say you will see more S 7 is because I believe people will be running multiple tesla destructors in lists (it comes on one of the basic transports, as well as on an inexpensive AV 13 vehicle in the heavy support slot.) and as a twin linked weapon is more reliable then most of the S8+ guns. You cannot simply list the number of weapons with a strength and state that that is what you are likely to see the most of, by that rational most marine shooting is S7+ because there are more weapons with that strength then any other in the book.

 

 

Okay first off I was wondering:

 

Reanimation protocols, the new We'll Be Back; I have been told that they roll at the end of each phase, so they get multiple chance to stand up again? Do they ever die? or do they just keep rolling until all have fallen? Once I find out the rules for that I can ask further questions on shooting/weapons.

 

It is at the end of the phase but it is only rolled once, and then the counter is removed. However a model can die 3 times in one turn, and stand back up each time. I.e. it is one roll per death, it just happens at the end of the phase in which the death occurred.

 

Scrabs; nasty, nasty creatures - whats their movement? and if they still have the swarm rule first the first time ever, fielding a Redeemer appeals to me.

 

Scarabs are beasts 6" move, Fleet, 12" charge and yes they are swarms.

 

Players have spoken about Deathmarks but not mentioned any specifics? help me out?

 

Deathmarks are a unit with a 24" range rapid fire sniper rifle. They can deepstrike and if they elect to do so they may deepstrike immediately after an enemy deepstrikes(but cannot do anything else until your turn) Upon deployment of the deathmark unit they can nominate a unit that they and any other deathmark unit wound on a 2+.

 

With Quantum Shielding, sounds like missile spam (as much as I try to avoid it) will be ideal. With split fire you can just take pop-shots at several vehicles instead of focusing on trying to destroy one at a time.

 

Not sure about this S8 does not have high odds of penetrating a vehicle (need to roll a 6) it is best to focus fire on targets. Most vehicles though are open topped so once penetrated they will die quickly (melta works very well here)

 

I really want to give Lone Wolves a go, but can't seem to build a list that is cost effective and is balanced the way I would like; but they might work out against Necrons if they can get into CC.

 

Very true

 

Monolith strength tests sound very nasty - Logan drop Podding with MM long Fangs sounds awfully appealing, at least until I find out more about death mark; Likewise Podding Rune Priests with Jaws to deal with infantry also sounds like it could hinder Necrons, despite the fact that they can use their Reanimation Protocols, combined with mass bolter fire it might slow them down enough.

 

It is ok, but honestly the S8 Ap3 blast is more of a threat, the S test is D6 inch range so unless you are assaulting the vehicle there is not guarantee that it will actually hit, and even if it does marines only fail a S test 1/3 of the time, so essentially the same rate that they fail armor saves.

[Xeenos]

Whats the AV on the mono now? Is it still 14, or is it like 12 + Shield so its 14 tell its first pen? Or 16 with shield? Or maybe no shield at all and just hanging at 14?

[Coverfire]

Whats the AV on the mono now? Is it still 14, or is it like 12 + Shield so its 14 tell its first pen? Or 16 with shield? Or maybe no shield at all and just hanging at 14?

 

All round AV14; no quantum shielding but it will have living metal if I am not mistaken.

[breng77]

Yes the monolith still has living metal, but this just means it has a good chance to ignore shaken and stunned

[eyeslikethunder]

Living lightning is great for scarabs Instant death no armour save watch out if they are in cover though they have stealth

[WeaponAdept]

My advice for playing against Necrons?

 

 

Hide the dice.