Ravenwing Squadrons

[krewl]

@IanSturrock,

You are squezing in one more squad of bikers then I play in exchange for no cc weapons and a chaplain, so you have 1 set of 3 bikers + attack bike more then me.

Not really a "better" list I would say, bit more firepower, lot less cc power. (Imho the command squad needs the chaplain to be half way decent..).

Probable more a case of a bit different, about about an equal powerlevel. I prefer the list I play (Obviously, thats why I play it .. :D ), mainly because the close nature of Meltaguns means you end up in charge range a lot more then you'd like anyways. I have the bikers anyways so I might give it a friendly spin and try it out.

 

@ValourousHeart

If you've never played GK before you'll be in for a negative surprise. They have so many highly reliable S6, S7 and S8 guns (Many twin linked) for suchs a low price (in points) that speeders will have trouble in every game, even on 25% terrain tables. Also this firepower is mobile (6"move and still shooting on razors and psydreads) so it will be hard to hide out of LOS. You'll get coversaves shure, but 4 shots BS4 twin linked per psyfledread will do you in. Read up on some lists on the GK bit of the forum here for some samples.

[ValourousHeart]

@ValourousHeart

If you've never played GK before you'll be in for a negative surprise. They have so many highly reliable S6, S7 and S8 guns (Many twin linked) for suchs a low price (in points) that speeders will have trouble in every game, even on 25% terrain tables. Also this firepower is mobile (6"move and still shooting on razors and psydreads) so it will be hard to hide out of LOS. You'll get coversaves shure, but 4 shots BS4 twin linked per psyfledread will do you in. Read up on some lists on the GK bit of the forum here for some samples.

 

I love it... The Internet yet again fails to convey my point.

Let's try that again.

 

I am not sure why you feel I need or plan to hide, I don't believe I said anything to that effect.

 

What I was trying to say is that you seem to be operating on the belief that his entire army will have LOS to my entire army at all times.

I am not going to claim that I am some amazing general... But being able to limit his ability to respond is the first lesson for any air army... And I got that one down at least.

 

Now if you have no terrain on the board that comes higher than a marines knees, then yes speeders die... But so does every thing else.

 

The next part of the equation is what I call paralysis of analyses.

So with terrain, deployment, strategy, tactics, and my speed I can create local superiority.

For armies slower than mine, they don't have the speed option, so will end up telegraphing their plan over a couple of turns... Unless of course they castle up... But I can use their own units to block LOS to me.

 

Typically this local superiority comes down to 2-3 of his units vs 5-7 of mine.

The rest of his army is dealing with other threats or is out of position to deal with this part of the battle field.

Have moved this superior force into position I can reliably eliminate 1-2 of his units.

Now he can respond with 1-2 units vs 5-7 units... I am sure you can see where that is going.

 

The difference is that you expect me to play his game, his way... Without considering the option of me controlling the pace of the game... Which is the next part of playing a successful air army.

[breng77]

I am not expecting that at all, I am saying that in order for you to damage him at all, you will at some point need to present some units as a target. Almost every unit in his army can kill a speeder. The units in his army are more durable, and can ignore shaken and stunned upon a successful psychic check. What this means is that when you present yourself as a target, unless you Kill/Weapon destroy your target, it is likely that some of your speeders will die. Assuming your opponent is fairly intelegent (using his shooty army) chances are his best shooting elements will be near center board, making being able to stay out of LOS, of those elements (which have some mobility = 6"-12" then shooting 24+") while you are within range is difficult on most tables. It is not impossible, but you are in effect fighting an up hill battle where one poor round of dice on the damage chart will result in him killing your 5-7 units with the 5-7 of his that he is likely able to move into LOS and range. Now maybe you play with a lot more LOS blocking terrain than I ever have (NOVA open had a lot and I still don't see how what your saying will work assuming a smart opponent on those tables) I'm not sure how those speeders are going to live. But if you are skilled with your build then you should try it against the shootier style GK lists at some point, it could be that you will be successful.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The shortcoming of pure Ravenwing is that they don't really do combat. They don't have the biker command squads that Codex Marines can run so they don't have any combat rocks to throw at an enemy assault unit.

 

As VH says, Ravenwing (and CM Bikers) are an air army. Unfortunately GK are quite a hard counter to the bikers because their effective weapons have the same range as ours and they have more of them.

 

RW suffer a bit more because of fearless and the increased individual point cost over CM bikes and lacking the twin-autocannon dreadnoughts that many marines find invaluable.

 

For example, a 2000 point biker list (fast and slow) might look something like this.

 

Captain, bike, relic blade, storm shield, artificer armour

Master of the Forge, bike, conversion beamer

8+1 bikes, two meltagun, multi-melta

8+1 bikes, two meltagun, multi-melta

5 bikes, two meltagun

5 bikes, two meltagun

Dreadnought, multi-melta, heavy flamer

Dreadnought, multi-melta, heavy flamer

Dreadnought, two twin-linked autocannon

Dreadnought, two twin-linked autocannon

Dreadnought, two twin-linked autocannon

Dreadnought, two twin-linked autocannon

 

Obviously this army doesn't do assault, but it does shooting very well. All the anti-infantry weapons are twin-linked, and there are enough anti-armour weapons that I should be able to get a few hits in... apart from my inability to hit on the first shot... let's not go there.

 

Ravenwing could do an equivalent army, but they wouldn't be taking Mortis dreadnoughts. I think they could get away with the twin-linked autocannon/missile launcher combination. Sub optimal but you work with what you have.

 

Sammael

3+1 bikes two meltaguns, multi-melta

3+1 bikes two meltaguns, multi-melta

3+1 bikes two meltaguns, multi-melta

3+1 bikes two meltaguns, multi-melta

3+1 bikes two meltaguns, multi-melta

3+1 bikes two meltaguns, multi-melta

Land Speeder, typhoon missile launcher, multi-melta

Land Speeder, typhoon missile launcher, multi-melta

Land Speeder, typhoon missile launcher, multi-melta

Dreadnought, twin-linked autocannon, missile launcher

Dreadnought, twin-linked autocannon, missile launcher

Dreadnought, twin-linked autocannon, missile launcher

 

A lot more melta in this list, but with lots of twin-linked bolters still okay at shooting up infantry as well. The Typhoons are doing rifleman duty, standing off and pumping missiles into anything they can see. There's no second HQ worth taking. Dark Angels Librarians are not so good with leadership 9, Chaplains only boost combat which is not where you want this army.

[egon1six]

My RW list is very similar to yours and it does very well against most armies. For example played against DE last night with nothing but lance spam and those little flyer guys (that oddly remind me of the green goblin). Any who, I had 4 out 5 obj. and he only had a third of one squad of his flyer boys and one ravager left by turn three. He insisted we continue so we did by turn five I tabled him down to a green goblin guy!. The only army I have trouble against right now is GK and Ork foot lists.

[Brother-Captain Stacius]

I have found them to be unbeatable in our little 875 point game's recently.

I was running Sammy, a rw attack squad and a 5 unit speeder squad. We were/are using the double's rule's. I normally lose all my bike's early, and then the scoring speeder. But my 5 multi melta armed speeder's are making an absolute mockery f everything they shoot at.

In a higher point's list I think i would split them into a smaller squad of 3 and 3, and probably chuck in another 3 for the fun of it. Take a couple of Rw attack squads, and chuck sammy on his bike instead of speeder.

The list can work, but i still pick up a dice whenever I'm hit, and mutter about "Jinking" :D