BFG Chaos advice needed!

[Papewaio]

Hey all. I've been playing Gothic for about a year, using a Chaos fleet. My opponents typically use Tau, Eldar or Imperial fleets. Eldar I have no problem with, as Carnages let me work through most things fairly easily. Countering the enormous amounts of ordnance the Tau can bring is more difficult. As for the Imperials . . . well, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I can't seem to win. Meh, that's why I'm here.

 

Anyway, I have a Repulsive, 2 Devastations, 2 Carnages, 3 Slaughters and 3 Iconoclasts. I'm looking at a Planet Killer, but that seems like it needs a list built around it.

Help, especially how to beat the Imperial and Tau fleets, is much appreciated!

[Olis]

Although it may not be of much help, when I played with a chaos fleet for BFG years and years ago, I always had a Styx class carrier in my list. I thought dedicated carriers in medium sized fleets were essential... ;) That said, I haven't played for a very long time and I'm eyeing up Imperial ships for a new fleet on a certain particular auction website. :D

[mughi3]

Papewaio

its really hard to give you a advice without some guidelines....

 

.what points do you normally play at?

.what type of fleet do you enjoy playing

.what is your biggest problem with imperial fleets?

 

Myself personally i have both a 1,500 point and a 2,000 point fleet list for my chaos fleet.

 

I try to balance my fleet internally with shooting and ordinance and i do not recommend trying to taylor a fleet list against specific opponants.

 

 

I personally have never been a fan of escorts and since i do not play imperial forces they tend not to be as important for my chaos fleet.

I have horrible luck with my dice rolls so as a must i always take abbaddon as my HQ, he costs as much as a cruiser but the free re-roll every turn saves my behind.

 

At 1,500 my fleet is-

.styx

.X2 devestation

.repulsive grand cruiser

.X2 carnages

 

When i bump it up to 2K i move my carrier command from the styx over to the added despoiler class battleship.

 

Its only 7 ships but i almost always have good results with a balance between long ranged shooting and loads of smallcraft options.

[Vaaish]

Without any other information, I would say your escorts and slaughters are the problem. The escorts are giving you torpedoes, which is nice, but there isn't that many which means one loss is going to severely reduce their effectiveness. It's the same problem IN gets with small squadrons of cobras except they are a lot cheaper. The slaughters are an issue because they are very fast and short ranged with most weapons on broadside. Since the rest of your fleet wants to sit abeam at range tossing in shots I'm guessing you are getting split up and the slaughters are getting shredded by the IN fleet if he's keeping it together. That puts you at a disadvantage leaving most of your combat power in the carnage and repulsive.

 

If you want to keep the slaughters, you could think about taking two murders and maybe see about dropping the escorts for more points.

[Papewaio]

We usually play 1000-1500 points. I usually run with the Repulsive, Carnages, Devastations and 2 Slaughters at 1500, and drop the Repulsive, one Devastation and a Slaughter at 1000. I usually try and use the Slaughters as a reserve, to come in and take the heat off the others later in the game.

 

As for playstyle of the fleet overall, I tend to get in close and duke it out quite quickly, with boarding actions and short-range gunnery, which I really like. The problem with that, however, is that once I've buried myself in their fleet I then can't avoid the Imperial/Tau ordinance. And that ruins everything. The second part to it is that I quite often find my ships having to face 2 or 3 enemy vessels at one time, and they simply don't have the firepower.

 

Yeah, I've been leaving the escorts more often than not, simply because a cruiser is that much more durable, as well as providing more varied weaponry. I've been thinking about Murders recently, but . . . I dunno. They just don't seem to appeal to me as much as the Carnage for a main line cruiser. Still, I'll give them a go.

 

The Imperial fleet usually has Tyrants and Lunars, backed up by Mars battlecruisers and Swords, and recently a Terra class battleship has been taking to the stars. And that thing is an absolute beast. The numbers are also a bit intimidating, as I'm quite often outnumbered.

Thoughts?

[mughi3]

As for playstyle of the fleet overall, I tend to get in close and duke it out quite quickly, with boarding actions and short-range gunnery, which I really like.

Here is your problem. most chaos ships excel against IN ships because they can sit outside IN ships range and hammer them as they try to close.

 

The route your trying to play means that your fleet, aside from having the mark of khorne, should be made mostly of murder and slaughter class vessels so they can fire lances as they close and then unleash broadsides at ahort ranges or just board. the despoiler while a great ship is to slow and not designed for the task your using it for.

 

Just a quick fleet list for thought-

 

at 1,500

chaos warmaster with 1 re-roll on a devestation to provide ranged lance support and small craft to protect you somewhat from ordinance.

 

that leaves you with 6 slaughters and 195 points to spend on marks/lords/escorts and so forth.

a very straight forward in your face fleet. i also suggest you check the 2010 FAQ for the dedicated khorne berserker fleet list.

http://tinyurl.com/23nul8q*

[staxer]

I haven't played much BFG in the last 6 months. For Chaos I don't usually bother with escorts but try and stick to Cruisers and Grand Cruisers. Carriers I feel are essential mainly for the fighters. I have had good results with an (etheral) daemon ship helping out my cruisers. I also try to squadron cruisers in twos or threes depending on game size. Giving them some long range lance / medium range weapon batteries helps too.

[Vaaish]

Mughi, if you were going with adding marks I would say take a Styx since it gives you a bit better AC capacity and basically the same lance support. Or just take a warmaster, two devastations and 6 slaughters ignoring the marks.

[Papewaio]

So the Chaos fleets' main strength is the range of their guns? That would change things. I'm used to Chaos being a force that is very much in your face, mainly an image gleaned from 40k.

 

@mughi3 & Vaaish - That list is interesting, but seems to lack options. It has only one way to fight, and I'd like to have a bit more tactical diversity. Also, I'm reluctant to spam one class of ship. I understand that it can be effective, but I'd rather see different kinds of models on the board as opposed to only one or two different kinds. It just makes for a more visually appealing game, you know?

 

I'm not averse to trying new ways of playing my fleet, so I might try a longer ranged style and see how that works. Any suggestions for the fleet list?

[mughi3]

So the Chaos fleets' main strength is the range of their guns? That would change things. I'm used to Chaos being a force that is very much in your face, mainly an image gleaned from 40k.

 

@mughi3 & Vaaish - That list is interesting, but seems to lack options. It has only one way to fight, and I'd like to have a bit more tactical diversity. Also, I'm reluctant to spam one class of ship. I understand that it can be effective, but I'd rather see different kinds of models on the board as opposed to only one or two different kinds. It just makes for a more visually appealing game, you know?

 

I'm not averse to trying new ways of playing my fleet, so I might try a longer ranged style and see how that works. Any suggestions for the fleet list?

 

 

depends on your point levels

 

Both the battleships make fine centerpieces for your fleet and both have great range, personally i prefer the carrier (despoiler) since it provides nearly as strong a lance broadside and gives you guns and support craft. i always take one at 2K points.

 

The goal is the magic chaos 45-60cm range bracket. so your main ships will be carnages, devestations, the styx and the acheron. i like the repulsive as well, but it slows your fleet down.

 

The reason i gave the fleet list i did was because you specified a certain "in your face" play style. aside from their big ships thats the IN sweet spot (30cm) that you have to be able to counter.

 

You could easily do an acheron/devestation mixed fleet for maximum lance ability but you will suffer against eldar.

[Lady_Canoness]

I haven't played Gothic in about a year, so my advice may be out of date, though I also run a Chaos Fleet (and for the life of me can't remember the names of my ships without my book at hand!)

 

If you're not playing special missions, this is my general advice:

- pick on the weak ones early (specially any escort class vessels you can find).

- keep your distance, and use the threat of boarding actions to make the enemy keep theirs.

- hang around whatever planet there might be to get the extra turns in (!)

- Don't forget to disengage when the fight is no longer in your favour!

 

That last point has won me more games then anything else - quit when you are ahead!

 

Knowing that the enemy can disengage at any time is probably the thing I think most ingenious about Gothic, as it really captures what I think most military actions are all about - dealing damage and getting the hell out of dodge when things look like they are turning against you! Not to mention that you have to be warry that if your enemy draws first blood, then can then disengage before you have time to react!

[Papewaio]

I've tried a few games with a more long ranged, circling approach and this has worked MUCH better! Still haven't tried Murders yet, but standing off to deliver death seems to let me counter the Imperials more easily. Not as much of a walk in the park as Eldar, but easier than Berzerker tactics. Thanks all!

[mughi3]

I haven't played Gothic in about a year, so my advice may be out of date, though I also run a Chaos Fleet (and for the life of me can't remember the names of my ships without my book at hand!)

 

If you're not playing special missions, this is my general advice:

- pick on the weak ones early (specially any escort class vessels you can find).

- keep your distance, and use the threat of boarding actions to make the enemy keep theirs.

- hang around whatever planet there might be to get the extra turns in (!)

- Don't forget to disengage when the fight is no longer in your favour!

 

That last point has won me more games then anything else - quit when you are ahead!

 

Knowing that the enemy can disengage at any time is probably the thing I think most ingenious about Gothic, as it really captures what I think most military actions are all about - dealing damage and getting the hell out of dodge when things look like they are turning against you! Not to mention that you have to be warry that if your enemy draws first blood, then can then disengage before you have time to react!

One small problem with that last part, unless it is a specific scenerio out of the book we treat withdrawl form the field of battle as automatic forfiet.

 

You fight to the last or you give up the chance of victory by leaving. it makes the game a bit more enjoyable than the people who do a little damage and then run away and hide. i have had enough bad experiences with players like that in 40K .

[Techmarine Data007]

I have to disagree with you there, since in naval actions, the damage that you do is what matters. You aren't required to hulk every ship, because in the same sense where a wounded member of a squad slows the whole group down, so too does a hit and run attack, ended with a withdrawal from the field, slow the fleet or convoy or whatever the Gothic fleet list is representing. This is better represented in the Gothic campaign rules where players had to choose how to allocate repair points provided by their held worlds to maintain a fleet. The more damage you can do while taking as little as possible in return is the way to bleed out your opponents, and although destruction is overall better, the cost of doing so may be too high to attempt when it isn't necessary.