WyrdWolf Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 As just a pup to the forums I have to ask, what armies do you guys have the hardest time playing? I've been playing since the start of october and I've played most of the armies in 40k at this point. Having just finished my first tournament (where i got 5th out of 6) I noticed there are only 2 armies that i have a particularly hard time facing off against, and those are Dark Eldar and Grey Knights. The fact that the dark eldar can drop a webway anywhere on the field and enter from it as a table edge is really annoying, and the fact that they all swing at a higher initiative than my troops really :cusss me up when they pop in and assault. Grey knights just tear through my army in general. Termies that deep strike and don't scatter? dreadknights that shunt 30" and assault my Long Fangs on turn 1? I'd really like some feedback on how you guys deal with these two armies. Here's a general layout of what i run for a list 2HQ's Either a Rune Priest and a Wolf Lord or Two Rune priests if i run 2 rune priests I have one with Jaws and LL and one with Jaws and SC; Wolf lord has wtn;wtt; runic armor and a frost sword; one rune priest goes in the drop pod with the 7 man gh squad 2 9 man squads of Grey Hunters with wolf Standard and Melta 2xRhinos for transport 1 7 man squad of grey hunters; Standard, MW,PW 1x Drop pod 1 Squad Wolf Guard 2x combi-melta/powerfist for the rhino GHs 1x Bolt Pistol/Frost Sword for the drop pod assault GH 1 squad scouts 4Xmelta bomb 1x melta gun 2 Squads Long Fangs 4x missile launcher 1x Lascannon 1xSgt either 1x twin linked las predator or 2x las plas Razorbacks (it depends on if my friend who actually owns the razorbacks is there) Much appreciated! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I am not a GK expert but I don't think they can shunt and assault the same turn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2937639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I am not a GK expert but I don't think they can shunt and assault the same turn they cant, although there is a mistaken interpretation that scouting DKs (by GKGM grand strategy) can use the shunt in the scout mvoe and assault normally in turn one. this was also cleared up in the FAQ as wrong Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2937669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 But for the dreadknight it costs 75 points and doesn't allow assualts, as per normal Deepstrike rules. Dreadknights definately shouldn't be able to assualt off of the bat. Dark Eldar are really quite fearsome though. Bext Xeros codex ever, aside from perhaps Orcs for it's charms and Necrons for it's cool. XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2937707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyrdWolf Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Well that's good to know, now that I can call my friend on it, but how do you guys deal with those armies in general? Grey knights have their force halberd which means that they hit at a higher initiative than any of my troops including my wolf lord. and if they get first turn storm ravens are up in my face getting ready to drop their payload. I'm having issues developing a list that's fluffy but also competent. Dark eldar also have higher initiative and the wyches have that 4+ invuln save so my power weapons are still only killing 50% of the time they get a wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2937711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Chaos Daemons. I have find they are difficult to predict and to play against, and their Flamers of Tzeentch give me the willys' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2937728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Leman Russ- Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Words cannot describe how much I hate IG Mech.... I dream of going to their side and smashing those :D Chimeras.... Honestly, Chimera, Vet Spam, Russ tanks.... Sickening.... -For your question, I personally do not like Drop Pods when there is only 1-2. I actually posted a list that used 9 Drop Pods a few weeks back in the SW Army List, I got 2nd place with it at a tournament. -However, if you choose to keep it as is, I would recomend taking a Power Fist on the third Wolf Guard over the Frost Blade, against GK's its good against Paladins/DK'S and against DE it can basically destroy most of their vehicles. - More Long Fangs are always good, a third squad of LF would help against both armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2937743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Grey knights just tear through my army in general. Termies that deep strike and don't scatter? How is it that the Grey Knight Terminators aren't scattering? Is your opponent using Mordrak? If so, Mordrak and his retinue of Terminators can't assault on the turn that they land, and they can't take any Incinerators/Psycannon, so their shooting is rather weak. Since they land turn 1, you should be able to a) blow them away in your shooting phase and b) run nearby units away to allow you to keep shooting at them next turn. If he's not using using Mordrak, then he's somehow getting a Teleport Homer forward (not available widely in the Grey Knight list). Servo Skulls are great, but you'll still Scatter d6 inches, even within range of those. dreadknights that shunt 30" and assault my Long Fangs on turn 1? As already pointed out, neither Dreadknights nor Interceptors can assault after a shunt. They can, however, do a 12" Scout move (if given that option from the Grand Strategy), and follow it up with a 12" Move and 6" Assault, but that doesn't guarantee a first turn assault, and leaves them vulnerable if you're going first, or seize the initiative. Plasma is definitely worthwhile when playing against the Knights (or indeed against any Marines). Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaWolf Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Orks seem to be my trouble 1 - 2 vs them overall 7-2 record Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Dark Angel Deathwing, they render missile/razorrhinospam useless as they get a 2+ save vs missiles and blast those av 11 tanks away with ease. Even plasma up close seems to fail as they have some stormshields bouncing those shots away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakiq Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 This thread just made me feel better about playing Space Wolves, good to know that we don't roll over every other army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chodjinn Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Dark Angel Deathwing, they render missile/razorrhinospam useless as they get a 2+ save vs missiles and blast those av 11 tanks away with ease. Even plasma up close seems to fail as they have some stormshields bouncing those shots away. Can you elaborate on this 2+ save? Not heard of this before and one of the lads in the local gaming group I've recently joined is a Deathwing player. He's also a Logawing player so will know everything I have and more lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Dark Angel Deathwing, they render missile/razorrhinospam useless as they get a 2+ save vs missiles and blast those av 11 tanks away with ease. Even plasma up close seems to fail as they have some stormshields bouncing those shots away. Can you elaborate on this 2+ save? Not heard of this before and one of the lads in the local gaming group I've recently joined is a Deathwing player. He's also a Logawing player so will know everything I have and more lol. I think he is referring to terminators with their 2+ save. Missiles don't work as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyrdWolf Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 I haven't played against Dark Angels yet, noone i know plays them actually. I've played Eldar, Tau, Orcs, GKs, D.Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Chaos Marines, Codex Marines, and 'Nids. The one time I played eldar was pretty great, my wolf lord and a rune priest just tore through my opponents lines from the center of the board to his left edge, while my long fangs blew apart most of his transports and my scouts popped another one. Their dark cousins are the ones that are really giving me a hard time, and the kid that plays them at our game shop is the best player there (he's spent the past few months beating me down with GK's and DE, and like any good wolves player i want to stuff a frost sword down his throat and show him the sons of russ don't mess around). The list he ran in the tournament had 2 Venoms, 2 gun barge type things (i can't remember the name for the life of me) 2 squads of wyches (i think 15 man?) 1 squad of the glider troops (the ones that are reminiscent of the green goblin from spider man) and i'm not sure what he had for an HQ. So anyone who is any form of authority on Dark Eldar i'd love some advice either on this board or through pm to keep the board from focusing on one army specifically That being said, what really seperates the Dark Angels from codex space marines besides their ability to run a Deathwing? I've never played them before so i wouldn't mind learning what they do before i ever have to face them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chodjinn Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 If the missiles dont work as well, how about going for number of shots and run heavy bolters instead? Ten heavy bolters is going to cream anything, stick logan in a DP with a squad and you have relentless as well, but they'd get minced the turn after. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 If the missiles dont work as well, how about going for number of shots and run heavy bolters instead? Ten heavy bolters is going to cream anything, stick logan in a DP with a squad and you have relentless as well, but they'd get minced the turn after. Largely because Heavy Bolters are not really useful vs tanks. Missles tend to have the flexablilty to do both. Sticking the odd plasma cannon meanwhile... XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulf Vengis Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Dark Angels can run the dreaded Raven Wing as well. Its a lot of bikes and land speeders with a unit most likely outflanking. Their players tend to tie up your more important units early and keep your shooty locked up while their Deathwing TDAs plow across the table in land raiders. Essentailly a nasty combo if youre not careful. The Raven/Death wing combo stops me cold every game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2938934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aekold Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Dark Angel Deathwing, they render missile/razorrhinospam useless as they get a 2+ save vs missiles and blast those av 11 tanks away with ease. Even plasma up close seems to fail as they have some stormshields bouncing those shots away. You are more then welcome ;). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2939002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchappel Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Dark Angels can run the dreaded Raven Wing as well. Its a lot of bikes and land speeders with a unit most likely outflanking. Their players tend to tie up your more important units early and keep your shooty locked up while their Deathwing TDAs plow across the table in land raiders. Essentailly a nasty combo if youre not careful. The Raven/Death wing combo stops me cold every game. :-) Yes, one of the armies I play is DA (Consecrators)... The fearless Troops in Terminator armor, after the FAQ update allowing for the 3++ Shields, the 2 shot CML's on assault terminators... Ravenwing with teleport homers make for a quick game if you are not ready... For me, the IG are the most difficult matchup when they min/max knowing they are facing Wolves... So much Plasma with BS 4 so cheap... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2939616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 for me it remains the eldar. placing objective markers in buildings, wraithguard occupy the bottom level, and their shooty unit occupy the top levels... if you get close enough to assault, you'll never get past those 10 T6 models Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2939628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Conan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 In all honsetly people seem to think GK are the cc kings while they are very good I have never really found an army better thn the Sw who are better at it. I'm not saying I can just run in and win cc every time but a lot of it yes. I'm not saying oh yeah sw are unbeatable but I am saying in cc very hard to beat. The army I have the most trouble with is dark eldar when they don't come to fight me head on and run away shooting me like the xeno cowards they are Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2940209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't like facing tau, I just find it a bit of a slog, I drive towards and hope that my dice roles are at least average to allow me to butcher them in close combat. Other than that there isn't an army I really dislike, SW are the ultimate jack of all trades army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2940219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I have a hell of a time against both IG and DE. It's either the low AP dark lances or the overwhelmingly low cost of everything IG AND the low AP shots that army can put out... End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2940258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyrdWolf Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 In all honsetly people seem to think GK are the cc kings while they are very good I have never really found an army better thn the Sw who are better at it. Really? How do you deal with the halberds going off at initiative 6? that's what kills me most of the time. If GK's went off at the same initiative as my wolves I'd really have no issues at least matching them in combat, but when GK's get to hit first and take out half of my 10 man GH squad because i don't even get armor saves that's 15 attacks that i don't get to utilize. I have the same issues with the Dark Eldar as far as initiative goes. How do you deal with GK's in CC because i'd really like some pointers on that. Also any pointers anyone has on Dark eldar would be great as well as i'll be playing those far more frequently than GK's in the near future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2940262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Leman Russ- Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 In all honsetly people seem to think GK are the cc kings while they are very good I have never really found an army better thn the Sw who are better at it. Really? How do you deal with the halberds going off at initiative 6? that's what kills me most of the time. If GK's went off at the same initiative as my wolves I'd really have no issues at least matching them in combat, but when GK's get to hit first and take out half of my 10 man GH squad because i don't even get armor saves that's 15 attacks that i don't get to utilize. I have the same issues with the Dark Eldar as far as initiative goes. How do you deal with GK's in CC because i'd really like some pointers on that. Also any pointers anyone has on Dark eldar would be great as well as i'll be playing those far more frequently than GK's in the near future. In all honesty, there isn't a trick once you are in close combat. It's about what you do leading to that point. Example would be: Shooting them the entire time, don't assault just shoot all day and then counter-attack, using psychic spells such as Murderous Hurricane to slow them down, thus more shots, and maybe even a JotWW if they are in the correct positioning. It comes down to weakening them to a point where their leading initiative won't hurt as much. Also remember that their models are worth quite a bit more then yours so it's not a surprise you wont be able to go toe-to-toe with equal sized squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243011-difficult-armies-to-beat/#findComment-2941272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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