Some codex musings

[AstraWlad]

I used to use sniper scouts but I just found them to be poor at anything other than surviving being shot at (if in cover). Worthless from an offensive perspective (low BS and crap AP other than extremely rare rending shots) and can be assaulted off an objective by almost anyone.

"To sit in the cover and survive incoming fire" is the main role of a home scoring unit :). And scouts are the best in it. So I include them in almost every roster and never was disappointed.

[Morollan]

But any halfway decent opponent will know that they don't need to bother shooting and the objective can be taken by almost any unit if they just assault the scouts.

[the jeske]

well if they got to the scouts through out assaulting your regular assault marines in an army with some clearly nice buffs to hth , then you think that a tactical would stop them unlike scout unit ?

[Morollan]

It's not exactly hard to get to a backfield objective without having to plough through an entire army. Deep Strike, Drop Pod, anything in a fast skimmer, jetbikes, interceptors etc.

[AbusePuppy]

Actually - part of the problem is that you are telling people how they have to design their army. To someone who is experienced enough to know what you apear to mean, then no you're not, but to a new gamer whos major influenc eis not 'what they have learnt for themselves' but 'what some guy on the internet wrote', You'll push them away from ever trying or learning to use tac squads.

You are correct that I am telling them "unit X is more effective than unit Y." That's not the same as telling them they have to pick unit X. If they like the way Y works, or prefer the model, or really like the fluff behind it, they can still take it. I love lots of bad units- Biovores, Techmarines, Sniper Drone Teams and more. Me liking them doesn't make them good. I can optimize the way I use them and build my army to take best advantage of them, but that still doesn't make them better than the alternatives. And if someone asks me "Which unit is better, X or Y?" I think it's dishonest not to tell them what I feel is the truth. If they tell me that they want to use Y anyways, I can give them advice on doing that, but that's simply not the same question.

 

Experience is useful. I won't discount that. But so is advice from other players. That's one of the main reasons that B&C exists, for crying out loud- so that we can make a community and help people new to the game by teaching them what we have learned (about modeling, painting, playing the game, and more.) If someone asks a question, give them the answer. There's no need to hem and haw, pretending that every choice in the codex is equally valuable so that we don't hurt the feelings of some imaginary spacemen.

 

And some players simply arent capable of using RAS/dedicated assault units well. I know a few myself, no patience, drop their plan at the first few casualites, feel they have to hit back as soon as possible...... they cant pick and choose a combat, cnat wait and hold till the positinoing is right, and most of all, dont know what their enemies squads are capable of because internet wisdom is that tac squads are bad units.

 

Tac squads are incredibly useful in army design, unless you're designing an army that needs RAS.

If you want static, long-range shooting, BA is not the best army for you. It's not really very good at it.

 

Could you post an example list where tacticals work alround better?

 

This is actually a fairly amusing list that makes good use of a lot of different units in different ways, but it can be a bit finicky to play and it doesn't really scale very well above/below 2000pts. Still, it's worth looking at and considering. Apologies if the points are slightly off, it's been a while since I used it.

 

1 Librarian (Shield, Sword)

1 Furioso Dread (Grapple, Drop Pod)

1 Furioso Dread (Grapple, Drop Pod)

1 Sanguinary Priest

5 Scouts (Snipers, Heavy Bolter)

5 Scouts (Snipers, Heavy Bolter)

5 ASM (Melta, Infernus)

5 ASM (Melta, Infernus)

10 Tacticals (Melta, Missile, HF Razor)

10 Tacticals (Melta, Missile, HF Razor)

1 Speeder (MM/HF)

1 Speeder (MM/HF)

1 AutoLas Pred

1 AutoLas Pred

10 Devs (4 Missile)

 

It's quite flexible at handling different armies and missions, has tons of deployment options and pretty good firepower. Doesn't play at all like most stereotypical BA armies do, and brings a lot of all types of targets to the field to keep the enemy busy.

 

Edit: I think I forgot a Drop Pod in there, must've been on the Devs. They don't deploy in it, it's just so that you can bring in both Dreads first turn if you want to. (The Devs will generally split into two squads with two Missiles each.)

[AstraWlad]

But any halfway decent opponent will know that they don't need to bother shooting and the objective can be taken by almost any unit if they just assault the scouts.

It depends from the metagame. For example my usual opponents are:

1.IG (mech). They simply do not have any unit that is really dangerous in CC, so I use scouts as a part of my offensive and they bring me very good results.

2. Tau. Same as above.

3. CSM. A lots of termies, so there in nothing to worry about: if they get there they'll wipe out anything.

4. GK. Same as above.

5. Orks. Well, may be here ASM will be better.

6. Another BA. Same as above.

 

And to round up this discussion: I don't whant to tell that Scouts are uber-power but they CAN do things and there ARE scouts at the tables. Though I definiteley will be glad to see rifles boosted a bit :lol:.