Dosjetka Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 New version of this article/Chapter begun here. Skip posts 1-23 if you're not interested in reading the outdated stuff. Left blank for final version. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hello there and I wish you best of luck to seeing this through. Name - So they were named after the sector they were sent to guard? Seams fine. Founding - 9th consdiering you gave a time period of mid M33 you might what to have this being only aledged information. Astral Claws were founded in 598.M35 and that was aledgly the 10th. Or you just remove the time determinant from the text. Gene-seed - Carry on brother! Combat Doctrine - It looks like you are setting your chapter to do the task of the Imperial Navy. Be carefull not to go to far down that road, Imperial navy scours the void, your guys could be in support and called upon for special missions like bording Space Hulks, facing Renegade SM ships or making attacks against hidden pirate strongholds. Brief History - what I said above. I understand that you wanted to show that it was hard work to get the Sector back in line but couple of centuries is a lot of time for a force as powerful as a Chapter. Though Sectors vary to local demands and stellar density, a typical sector might encompass 7 million cubic light years, equivalent to a cube with sides almost 200 light years long. If you want to keep such a long time for reconquest make sure you put in some really powerfull opposition like an Ork Empire, pirates alone would not sufice in my opinion. It is not hard to get a mental image of your guys and that is a gud thing because it shows what you want, now just keep on track. Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hello there and I wish you best of luck to seeing this through. Cheers Hrvat :P Name - So they were named after the sector they were sent to guard? Seams fine. It's the only name I had at the time and I think it's not that bad to be honest. So for the moment, I'll stick to it! Founding - 9th consdiering you gave a time period of mid M33 you might what to have this being only aledged information. Astral Claws were founded in 598.M35 and that was aledgly the 10th. Or you just remove the time determinant from the text. Ok, so only hint at their Founding. Got it. Combat Doctrine - It looks like you are setting your chapter to do the task of the Imperial Navy. Be carefull not to go to far down that road, Imperial navy scours the void, your guys could be in support and called upon for special missions like bording Space Hulks, facing Renegade SM ships or making attacks against hidden pirate strongholds. Ok, well thanks for the idea. I appreciate it and I'll use it, so I hope you don't mind :P Brief History - what I said above. I understand that you wanted to show that it was hard work to get the Sector back in line but couple of centuries is a lot of time for a force as powerful as a Chapter. Though Sectors vary to local demands and stellar density, a typical sector might encompass 7 million cubic light years, equivalent to a cube with sides almost 200 light years long. If you want to keep such a long time for reconquest make sure you put in some really powerfull opposition like an Ork Empire, pirates alone would not sufice in my opinion. I think that I did mention Orks and Chaos, but I'll try and reinforce the idea that there's not just a few loose groups but some well organised resistance! So, I'll go and edit the first post now! :lol: Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 A little bit more help. From 1-2nd edition background from old WD-s a typical sector has between 30 and 40 thousand stars forming a cube with sides approximately 200 light years long! Sectors are divided into sub-sectors, usually comprising between 2 and 8 star systems within a 10 light year radius (some may encompass more systems - others only 1). This size is governed by the practical patrol ranges of spaceships. Because sub-sectors are divisions of worlds (rather than volumes of space) there are vast numbers of star systems within each sector which do not fall within a sub-sector. These are referred to as inter sectors - and are commonly known as wilderness zones, forbidden zones, empty space and frontier space. Inter-sectors may contain gas or dust nebulae, inaccessible areas, alien systems, unexplored systems, uninhabited systems and uninhabitable worlds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Any ideas regarding the Chapter's colours? Or would you prefer me to brainstorm a few? :wacko: EDIT: That smiley didn't work. Pah. Treacherous machine spirit, this keyboard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hrvat: Thanks ;) Ace: Go for it ;) Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 With what Hrvat already suggested what's up there looks good. Any thoughts on the Beliefs yet? Put something in each heading then it will be easier to bulk up the rest of the article. In my view anyway ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 With what Hrvat already suggested what's up there looks good. Any thoughts on the Beliefs yet? Put something in each heading then it will be easier to bulk up the rest of the article. In my view anyway ;) Cheers Reyner ;) I'm not too sure about the beliefs yet. I'll try and get something up tomorrow though. I'll have to see how much work I have first :P Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Well it was all I could think of to get more out of you ;) What's there is good just need bit more time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Well it was all I could think of to get more out of you ;) What's there is good just need bit more time. Hm... Well the main thing I'm debating about at the moment is if I should make them God-Emperor worshippers or not. As the earlier Foundings tend to be non-religious (towards the Emperor anyway), they probably wouldn't be, but making them religious makes them stand apart from the rest and can add more depth and room for more fun stuff ;) Any thoughts? Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 That could work well, if they are involved with the Imperial Navy on a regular basis it would help them gel if they believed as the humans did. It also makes them stand out from the crowd as you say. Go for it, more work for yourself but it will make for a more interesting read. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Sounds like a good start BBL, although having a Chapter within Tempestus who specialize in digging renegades and pirates out of space hulks/bases makes me slightly nervous, can't imagine why! :P Perhaps something to consider under the heading of Beliefs is their character. In your first post there's a lot of what they do/have done, when they did it, etc, but there's not a lot of who they are. Belief in the God Emperor is fine, but what are they actually like: proudly pious or humble? Ragingly aggressive or cold and calculating? If you had to sum up their character in a word or two, what word would you use? These are the things that really make a Chapter interesting. As an aside to Hrvat, that's fascinating stuff about the organiztion of the Imperium on a galactic scale, I think the guide to DIYing could do with more of this kind of information. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 As an aside to Hrvat, that's fascinating stuff about the organiztion of the Imperium on a galactic scale, I think the guide to DIYing could do with more of this kind of information. I have pages and pages of such cool information from the early days of 40k that is these days mostly neglected. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 That could work well, if they are involved with the Imperial Navy on a regular basis it would help them gel if they believed as the humans did. It also makes them stand out from the crowd as you say. Go for it, more work for yourself but it will make for a more interesting read. More work actually keeps me in some ways motivated, so it's more of a bonus for me :P Cheers for the advice Reyner! Sounds like a good start BBL, although having a Chapter within Tempestus who specialize in digging renegades and pirates out of space hulks/bases makes me slightly nervous, can't imagine why! ;) Cheers for popping by Lysimachus :) And I just can't imagine why you are so nervous ;) Perhaps something to consider under the heading of Beliefs is their character. In your first post there's a lot of what they do/have done, when they did it, etc, but there's not a lot of who they are. Belief in the God Emperor is fine, but what are they actually like: proudly pious or humble? Ragingly aggressive or cold and calculating? If you had to sum up their character in a word or two, what word would you use? These are the things that really make a Chapter interesting. Hm... That's always the difficult part. I see them as humane (bit like the Sallies) but they still regard themselves as superior (well, because they are). They are not religious fanatics so humble would also suit them quite well. What else... I'll give it a think. Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaren Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Feels good to be back here after a short hiatus (cheers Shinzaren for getting me back again) and I've got some new ideas... I hope that I go to the end with this one :) I'm honored to be able to help :P Name: Sons of Denzarr If Denzarr is the Sector/Shipping Lanes they are sent to protect, the name seems a bit... off. Wouldn't they be the Sons of somewhere else, sent to aid Denzarr? Perhaps they are the Guardians of Denzarr, Defenders of Denzarr, something like that? Praetors of Denzarr? Founding: Thought to be 9th Founding as they first appeared in Imperial records shortly after the first half of M33. Allegedly created to patrol the travel lanes in the south-west part of Segmentum Tempestus. Heavily infested with pirates and Ork filth along with minor Chaos presence. Rare Eldar encounters. How important are these travel lanes, that one of the 1000 chapters of Adeptus Astartes are required to safeguard them? Couldn't the Navy handle this? Perhaps mention that the area contained several strategically important worlds, like Forge Worlds, etc etc. Combat Doctrine: Specialise in boarding actions and close-quarter fighting. Little use of big guns. Seems decent, I am in the middle of trying this out myself in one of my Chapters, so I look forward to seeing your approach and possibly stealing what you use :P Brief History: Came to the Denzarr Sector in Mid-M33 as part of a reinforcement group to secure lanes of trade in an area infested with pirate filth, both human and Xenos. Mostly waited until the Navy had something too big to handle alone and then went in guns blazing and chainswords roaring! This seems a bit... reactive for Space Marines. Makes more sense for them to seek out the Pirate bases, begin assaults on the Ork kingdoms, and start hitting the Chaos Strongholds. They would still obviously help the Navy when needed, but they wouldn't just sit there waiting until then ;) After securing those lanes in bloody battle (in a couple of centuries or so. Ork Empires and Chaos strongholds don't shift in a couple of days) with the help of [***] Chapter (from the same Founding)/Imperial Guard regiment/Sisters of Battle Order and the Imperial Navy, they sought a homeworld among Denzarr's many systems. Find one they like and settle there. Make war with any invaders and generally clean up the place with the help of another Chapter stationed in the Sector (it's big). Some more fancy stuff will follow ;) Not bad, perhaps emphasize the difficulty in eradicating Orks completely and how they always remain a nuisance, sometimes flaring up into a significant threat? The only thing I worry about is the fact that this sector doesn't appear to have anything of supreme strategic importance, besides shipping lanes, and yet it is guarded by 2 chapters of Astartes. Definitely emphasize this sector's importance. Otherwise it just makes it seem like you couldn't handle your given job alone, and no one wants that. I know there's not much, but any C&C would be great ;) Done and done :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Cheers Shinz (I hope you don't mind me calling you that, it's just shorter and easier to remember ;))! So, if I whittle down what you've said, these following points appear (please correct me if I'm mistaken): The name's a bit off. Needs tweaking. And Denzarr is most probably the name of the planet which is their home world, but I'm not sure about that yet. More tweaking maybe. And no, they wouldn't be "Sons of somewhere else", as you put it, as they have no home world until after the conflict. Emphasize on the importance of this Sector and the planets/systems within it. Got it. More tweaking ;) Get working on the Combat Doctrine for you to (possibly) steal :) Word my ideas better so that the idea I have in my head translates smoothly to paper (no, my Astartes do not sit on their backsides, waiting for the Navy to call them up :)) Emphasize general difficulty of cleaning up the filth. Check! So, again, thanks Shinz :P Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 So, after a night full of thinking, I have a few new idea that I have added to the first post. As always, C&C is greatly appreciated! Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Solid ideas with only a small thing that is bugging me which I allready mentioned. Dates and foundings are a very slippery slope, in my personal opinion it is best not to join the two together unless the date and found have been joined together in the same sentence like the 2nd, 3rd or 26th. To provide example 1st founding - cca 807.M30 2nd founding - 021.M31 3rd founding - 001.M32 4th founding - ??? 5th founding - ??? 6th founding - ??? 7th founding - ??? 8th founding - mid M34 (IA:TBW II) 9th founding - ??? 10th founding - 598.M35 - date of the Astral Claws founding (C:CSM 3.5), IA:TBW I states mid M35 11th founding - ??? 12th founding - ??? 13th founding - late M35/early M36 (IA:TBW II) 14th founding -??? 15th founding - ??? 16th founding - ??? 17th founding - ??? 18th founding - ??? 19th founding - ??? 20th founding - ??? 21st founding - M36 before Age of Apostasy so that puts 215.M36 as terminus ante quem 22nd founding - ??? 23rd founding - M37/early M38 - this could signify that foundings of Chapters are spread over time, a similar idea is suggested in "The Cursed Founding" UK WD 260/1 24th founding - ??? 25th founding - M40 26th founding - 738.M41 To me this shows a few things. In general SM foundings are rare events separated by several hundreds or a thousand years. The only difference happened during the time Ecclesariarchy was at the hight of their power and probably infuenced the other High Lords to create new chapters that would help them with their ever more zealous crusades/wars of faith. Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Ace: Go for it ;) ;) *Puts on Heraldry Dept. Hat* ;) Right then. I'm feeling brown as a colour for these guys, but I can't quite narrow down the vibe I'm getting from the Praetors of Denzarr any further. Hence the following rather ecclectic mix of brown schemes: Any of those say 'Praetors of Denzarr' to you? :huh: EDIT: The green/brown one quartered one did, it turns out! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 I like them all, but this one, to me, is the best out of them all. No shouty colours that would make people think they're arrogant/fanatics/etc... Perfect. Thanks a million Ace! ;) Hrvat: Ok, I'll go for dates instead of Founding number. But I'll try and situate the date around mid-M33 ;) Cheers, Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2938991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Small hideous update. Nothing big, just putting stuff in order and re-writing stuff. I'll post again when I've finished! Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2939700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Founding - 9th consdiering you gave a time period of mid M33 you might what to have this being only aledged information. Astral Claws were founded in 598.M35 and that was aledgly the 10th. Or you just remove the time determinant from the text. Just a personal note. I have decided to ignore the dates of Foundings in Badab War books. Mainly because the second book is inconsistent with itself when it comes to 13th and 21st Founding. The date given for 10th Founding works very well, if the 13th Founding was in late M35 or early M36, however since the 21st Founding is put in early M36 as well, I can't see how this works in correct chronological order. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2941418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Just a personal note.I have decided to ignore the dates of Foundings in Badab War books. Mainly because the second book is inconsistent with itself when it comes to 13th and 21st Founding. The date given for 10th Founding works very well, if the 13th Founding was in late M35 or early M36, however since the 21st Founding is put in early M36 as well, I can't see how this works in correct chronological order. For some time I also thought it strange but then after re-reading the background about late 35th and early 36th millenium I became possible to me that fanatical religious zeal that drove the Eclesiarchy also drove the High Lords to support all of those wars of faith and crusades with fresh space marine chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2941471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 10, 2011 Author Share Posted December 10, 2011 So here I am back again with another, different version of my IA for the Praetors of Denzarr. I’m taking a different approach on this IA (especially due to reading a few bits of the Octaguide) and so here is the fruit of my thoughts! What I want with this IA: I would like the reader to like this Chapter. I want it to be believable and not OTT. I want this Chapter to have its own little quirks that really make it unique in its own way. I would like to be able to pull off a Ultramarine successor Chapter without going too cheesy and “Oh, we are the best because we are the sons of Papa Smurf”. I want the Astartes of this Chapter to stay away from vehicles and be infantry-based, a bit like GHY’s Blazing Sons (IIRC) (why? Because I think it’s cool). I also want to come up with a cool way of believing in the God-Emperor, something different from the rest of the Imperium but close enough not to cause any problems with other Imperial organisations. All in all, I want a Chapter that I like and that I can feel comfortable playing with and talking about and a something I can be proud of. Description of the “lambda” Praetor of Denzarr: modest but firm/resolute, religious, humane/compassionate but also stubborn in his beliefs and way of thinking. Takes time to analyse situations. Rarely acts on impulse. Quiet and withdrawn. Only speaks when necessary or asked to. Other titbits: I have a colour scheme for these chaps (thanks again Ace!) which (I think) really reflects how I want them to be. Not too shouty/loud/bright. It is quartered, which to me reflects the fact that they have a complex way of thinking/doing things. I also have a name for them, but I’m not sure if Denzarr is a sector, sub-sector, system, planet or something else. I think I will place them at the rim of the galaxy (probably Segmentum Tempestus) as I don’t want to put them anywhere “centre-stage” (ie. Near Macragge, Terra, Baal, Eye of Terror, etc…). That’s all for now, please bear with me though, as I’ll add to this very soon! Cheers, Ludovic Edit: Added colour scheme! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2941530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I merged the two discussions and added link to the new approach in the first post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243065-index-astartes-praetors-of-denzarr/#findComment-2941532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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