Midwest Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Does anyone know of any canonical background as to what happened after the Heresy is stopped and the renegades flee to the Eye/Maelstrom/etc.? Specifically, does the Imperium stabilize rather quickly under the remaining Primarchs like Guilliman and Dorn, or is there some sort of continued chaos (little 'c'), such as might occur if different factions started fighting for control (I'm thinking of post-WWI, where you had armed left/right militias battling in German cities and the Russian Civil War arising from WWI and continuing for years after that conflict ended). Just kinda curious if there was either a full 'civil war' between Imperial factions (no traitors/heretics, just different loyalist factions), or some sort of large-scale reactionary purges (which could have led to an extended period of instability). I'm aware of the Great Scouring, but AFAIK that was still mostly directed towards Horus' forces, and a direct part/continuation of the Heresy itself, whereas I'm more interested in any relatively 'separate' wars or other issues that may have arisen in the wake of the Heresy as the Imperium attempts to stabilize and rebuild. I also know the first Black Crusade is roughly 500 years after the Heresy, but again, no idea what kind of more internal-oriented civil wars, purges, or other 'troubles' may have been afflicting the Imperium in those initial years/decades/centuries after the Heresy. BTW, is it common assumption that the HH novels will end with Horus' death and the interment of the Emperor into the Golden Throne? Any chance of them extending beyond that, detailing Ahriman's takeover of the renamed Black Legion, or the aforementioned first BC, the Second Founding, the establishment of the Grey Knights (assuming that isn't fully covered during the Heresy), etc.? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Nope, that stuff is pretty obscure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2938504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 BTW, is it common assumption that the HH novels will end with Horus' death and the interment of the Emperor into the Golden Throne? Any chance of them extending beyond that, detailing Ahriman's takeover of the renamed Black Legion, or the aforementioned first BC, the Second Founding, the establishment of the Grey Knights (assuming that isn't fully covered during the Heresy), etc.? Possibly, but I would have thought it a natural nadir to end the series on, what with the climactic events on the Vengeful Spirit and the devastating Siege of Terra. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility, however, for the series to live on somewhat with a couple more books on the Scouring and the Second Founding. Perhaps a final epilogue trilogy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2938519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponAdept Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 The internment took years, decades right? What with constructing the Golden Throne in the first place. Surely there is a huge amount of room to expand beyond the death of Horus? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2938550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 In the new fluff- the Throne was found long ago in a desert, put together, the Emperor was going to make use of it (in A Thousand Sons it's suggested he was going to use Magnus) as part of his great project- connecting to the Eldar Webway. After Magnus's spell, the webway gate was damaged, daemons attacked, the Custodes and the Sisters of Silence fought them back, and the Emperor remained on the throne holding the gate shut. At the climax of the Siege of Terra, when Horus put the shields down, the Emperor handed the throne over to Malcador (knowing that despite being the most powerful mortal psyker (so, not counting Primarchs) after the Emperor, he'd only be able to handle it for a short time). Malcador the Sigillite became "Malcador The Hero". He went and fought Horus. His shattered body was brought back to the Throne- Malcador collapsed into dust- but the Emperor started speaking again on the Throne (with the last little bit of power Malcador had given him) and gave Dorn his orders as to what was to be done with the Imperium. So- no "Dorn was ordered to construct the throne" anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2938571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
death_incarnite Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Well I would assume there were still hold outs of renegade forces and there was lots of purging because of thought corruption. So I would assume there was an extreme fear of inquisition as well as fear of renegades because all of the stories told by travelers. So i would say very fearfull and every ones watching there back. But im not really a fluff guru so dont assume what im saying is complete truth, because as brother bill said its all very obscure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2938585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 The Inquisition played a big part in eliminating the knowledge of Chaos from the rest of the Imperium- initially using mind wiping machines, but eventually purging entire armies that had fought against Chaos. Space Marines and Titan Legions were occasionally forced to submit to cerebral scrubbing procedures. Then they turned to the historical records: Dark Heresy: Daemon Hunter: page 8 Archives and data-mills were seeded with self-replicating data-killers, keyed to hunt down and destroy all reference to Chaos and its servants. While the cogitation-engines of the Administratum were purged silently from within, entire archives of physical records were pu to the torch. A few radical inquisitors have even claimed that in a single year, ninety percent of the sum total of Mankind's knowledge burned. Entire libraries were destroyed in order to purge a single tome relating to the Ruinous Powers. Some attempted to spirit away any texts they could, regardless of whether they were tainted by Chaos, clinging to the belief that knowledge and understanding would somehow prove Mankind's deliverance. These fools were declared heretics and ruthlessly hunted down, their bodies thrown to the pyres that burned across the length and breadth of the Imperium Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2938601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponAdept Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 In the new fluff- the Throne was found long ago in a desert Really? A machine the size of several cities was 'found in a desert' and 'put together'? How does that make more sense than the all-knowing Emperor (praise him) ordering the construction of his own mega-stasis chair? What a :tu: huge pile of ;) GW :cuss :cuss retconned :cuss bull :cuss GW. Sort your lives out. And stop IPing everyone who has a better idea than you. :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2938618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 What source gives "the size of several cities"? These were the new fluff books that gave the new Throne origins (though it was "enhanced" after the Emperor was installed in it): http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Horus_Here...Artbook_Series) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2938626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponAdept Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The Golden Throne is often described as either covering most of England, centering on GW HQ. It's also described as taking up a vast area of the Imperial palace when it is described as being in the Himalayas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2939880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The Golden Throne is often described as either covering most of England, centering on GW HQ. It's also described as taking up a vast area of the Imperial palace when it is described as being in the Himalayas. The Throne being centrered on Nottingham is old old old outdated fluff that was put in when the developers were just jids who had a cool idea. This is back when the Space Wolves homeworld was called Lucan, the primarchs were jumped up IG officers and marines were IG veterans... Thankfully all of that went out the window and regardless of what one think of the current fluff, it is better than that old comedy fluff... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2939898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Thankfully all of that went out the window and regardless of what one think of the current fluff, it is better than that old comedy fluff... Tell that to the mangled fluff we see from a certain Codex writer. Comedy=Bad. All other fluff=Better than anything GW can create nowadays. I'd imagine they'd carry the HH on slightly. Not ages past, but certainly have a few books from the aftermath. Otherwise, you're pretty much leaving the series on a cliffhanger. Will the Imperium survive... Of course, we know it will, and a few events like the Iron Cage, but if you haven't read all the codices it's a little more blank. We need to see how Guilliman becomes everyone's spiritual liege, for one thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2939908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Roboute stepped in, took control and did his best to combat all forces of chaos with his vast legion, vulkan, corax and the iron hands were buggered simply because of istan v (so they are out) Dorn went on a crusade to wipe out Pertuabo's forces. The blood angels i havent a clue. Space wolves would pose a major threat until they they were affected by the wulfen gene and lost a huge proportion of there chapter. Dark angels were busy covering up their own mess. White scars not a clue( i assume they lost a good chunk defending the imperial palace, but so did dorn and the blood angels but dorn still went on the offensive) but yeah, overall it would of been the ultramarines, the first time ever their massive numbers would be looked on by ultra haters as a good thing, simply because without them we the loyalists probably would of suffered a great deal more from the remaining forces, or just simply lose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2939918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The Golden Throne is often described as either covering most of England, centering on GW HQ. It's also described as taking up a vast area of the Imperial palace when it is described as being in the Himalayas. Your mistaking the Throne for the Throne room. The Throne room is where the Throne is situated. The actual Throne on which the Emperor sits is essentially a large ornate chair like structure of alien origin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2940010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The Throne room is where the Throne is situated. The actual Throne on which the Emperor sits is essentially a large ornate chair like structure of alien origin. A common image of which can be found here. Certain, older, versions of that have slightly more flesh on the Emperor, but the throne is the same. Sorry to Hijack yer post. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2941082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culebras Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Does anyone know of any canonical background as to what happened after the Heresy is stopped and the renegades flee to the Eye/Maelstrom/etc.? Specifically, does the Imperium stabilize rather quickly under the remaining Primarchs like Guilliman and Dorn, or is there some sort of continued chaos (little 'c'), such as might occur if different factions started fighting for control (I'm thinking of post-WWI, where you had armed left/right militias battling in German cities and the Russian Civil War arising from WWI and continuing for years after that conflict ended). Just kinda curious if there was either a full 'civil war' between Imperial factions (no traitors/heretics, just different loyalist factions), or some sort of large-scale reactionary purges (which could have led to an extended period of instability). I'm aware of the Great Scouring, but AFAIK that was still mostly directed towards Horus' forces, and a direct part/continuation of the Heresy itself, whereas I'm more interested in any relatively 'separate' wars or other issues that may have arisen in the wake of the Heresy as the Imperium attempts to stabilize and rebuild. I also know the first Black Crusade is roughly 500 years after the Heresy, but again, no idea what kind of more internal-oriented civil wars, purges, or other 'troubles' may have been afflicting the Imperium in those initial years/decades/centuries after the Heresy. BTW, is it common assumption that the HH novels will end with Horus' death and the interment of the Emperor into the Golden Throne? Any chance of them extending beyond that, detailing Ahriman's takeover of the renamed Black Legion, or the aforementioned first BC, the Second Founding, the establishment of the Grey Knights (assuming that isn't fully covered during the Heresy), etc.? Most of what what happened after Horus dies is a mystery, but a few things are known 1. At some point after the heresy, the codex Astartes was adopted, but this did not happen right away. Other Chapters (including the Iron hands and raven guard) were able to recruit enough new members to be split during the 2nd founding. I think I once heard the ball-park figure of "a couple" centuries before the Imperium had been stabilized enough for The Codex to be adopted. 2 The Imperial fists immediately pursued the Iron Warriors into the disastrous "Iron Cage" campaign that saw them severely depleted. This event was one of the reasons Dorn choose to accept the Codex Astartes and break up his legion. I'm quoting from lexicanum here, but you can sort of get the feel for what the traitors were doing after Horus died. -The Black Legion entry from Lexicanum (taken from the old Index Astartes 1) mentions how they were the first to flee terra and the first begin raiding the imperium, so it is likely they continued to be active in the years immediately after. - "After Horus' defeat, Mortarion led his Death Guard in a campaign of destruction over a score of planets, until finally retreating into the Eye of Terror." - "Upon Horus's defeat, the Night Lords continued their bloody pogrom upon the Galactic East. While nearly every other Legion had been decimated in the fighting and all the other traitor Legions had begun retreating to the Eye of Terror, the Night Lords legion remained unified and retained the bulk of their pre-Heresy numbers." Night Haunter would later die at the hands of an assassin. -In the aftermath of the Heresy, the Alpha Legion did not retreat to the Eye of Terror like the other Traitor Legions; instead they moved on into the Galactic East, following new objectives of their own devising. Whether or not being brought to battle with the Ultramarines was one of these objectives is unknown, but it occurred all the same." (this ended when Alpharius died at the hands of Guilliman. So taken together, we can see that while some of the legions retreated to the eye of terror, others fled into the Galactic East or fortified their positions against the Imperial counter attack. These probably continued to cause trouble by attacking imperial outposts or serving as a rallying point for forces that had sided with Horus during the Heresy. A good way to think about it is this. While some planets joined the imperium because they saw a benefit, others had to be strong-armed into it or pacified during the great crusade. This left entire populations at the mercy of outsiders, collaborators, tyrants, etc. Its a giant recipe for an unhappy populace. The Emperor basically came in and completely upset the status quo on thousands of worlds, so those nobles and politicians are going to be a bit miffed at going from masters of their domains to having someone looking over their shoulder. Then, when the heresy breaks out, it shows everyone that the big, monolithic imperium can be hurt, it can be overthrown, and its not invulnerable. Suddenly you have millions of brushfire wars sparking up across the galaxy. People are making power grabs, institutions are getting overthrown, its a giant mess. So I don't think the Imperium stabilized quickly because, ultimately, you still had entire legions of chaos marines running around sparking rebellions, arming traitors, and striking at the institutions of the imperium in order to create further anarchy. Now, once they were able to get things organized and running again, the probably came down hard on everyone who even looked like they were involved. Thats why we don't talk about the traitor legion homeworlds anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2941146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Culebras, I agree with your last paragraph pretty much 100%. Thanks to everyone for their answers. I thought maybe GW had covered this and I'd just forgotten it. I'm thinking of running a Black Crusade game that would start in the immediate aftermath of the Heresy (tho mostly take place in 'current' 40k). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2942750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Has anything been written about how the ecclesiarchy or the Imperial Cult are officially started? They exist in secret during the crusade and the heresy, but how do they become legal and then mandatory? How do worlds that have been forced to accept the atheism of the Imperium, then fight for the Imperium against the traitor Horus and his weird religion, suddenly adopt the Emperor as a god figure and start following the Lectitio Divinitatus? Was their a religious crusade at some point to force the Imperial Cult on people? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2945327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemFX Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Let.. No seriously. Let me get this straight here. The Emperor found a gate device under a desert and then built it in a heavily armoured facility, under guard, to help advance the human race and communicate across the galaxy. .. You guys. .. I think the Emperor is Richard Dean Anderson. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2945332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Let.. No seriously. Let me get this straight here. The Emperor found a gate device under a desert and then built it in a heavily armoured facility, under guard, to help advance the human race and communicate across the galaxy. .. You guys. .. I think the Emperor is Richard Dean Anderson. Err, I don't think so, it's not like he went around the galaxy rescuing human populations from the worship of evil gods. It's not like he ever had to face the galaxy being eaten by some predator species with a hive mind that only existed to convert all usuable matter to itself. He certainly never had to face off against a group of fanatical warriors who worshiped evil gods invading from another galaxy spreading plague and other nasties. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2945419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyear Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Let.. No seriously. Let me get this straight here. The Emperor found a gate device under a desert and then built it in a heavily armoured facility, under guard, to help advance the human race and communicate across the galaxy. .. You guys. .. I think the Emperor is Richard Dean Anderson. Well he did find a stargate so there is something to the theory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2945439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemFX Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Err, I don't think so, it's not like he went around the galaxy rescuing human populations from the worship of evil gods. It's not like he ever had to face the galaxy being eaten by some predator species with a hive mind that only existed to convert all usuable matter to itself. He certainly never had to face off against a group of fanatical warriors who worshiped evil gods invading from another galaxy spreading plague and other nasties. Uh.. Gaould and Wraith? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2947898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponAdept Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Ref my previous posts, I think i was getting confused with the Imperial Palace which is "Continent Spanning" Richard Dean Andersons Throne? http://www.christusrex.org/www1/citta/CB-Cathedra.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2947962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unintentional Batman Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Thankfully all of that went out the window and regardless of what one think of the current fluff, it is better than that old comedy fluff... In many places, not really - no. Very much of the soul and spirit of 40K has been lost when the fluff has been evolved by the forces of the marketplace to become more serious. About half has been great, about half is just boring and dull. Same goes with Black Library rewriting the "new, seriouser" fluff. There's good stuff and lousy ideas from all eras and I'm not letting GW tell me what is true and what is not. Canon is what I think it is :confused: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2949533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Most of the more light hearted stuff was because of the 2000ad comic influence, Rick Priestly had been working on the Judge Dredd RPG just before starting Rogue Trader. The time after the Heresy was known as the Scouring where the loyalist Legions drove the traitors into the Eye of Terror, a time spanning seven years if I remember right. You then get the Second Founding coming after that with the next couple of hundred years being the final says of the remaining primarchs. I don't really recall specific details of those times though other than the following. The rise of the Imperial cult came after the immediate time of the heresy as various pro-emperor cults sprung up all over the place with the most successful being the Temple of the Saviour Emperor. It's main advantage over the other cults was that it was centered on Terra itself and was lead by a former fanatical Imperial Army officer who fought at the siege of Terra defending the palace who also renamed himself as the prophet Fatidicus. It is known that Fadicus died at the age of 120 and that at this time the Imperium was still recovering from the Heresy at this point but it wasn't until the 32nd millennium that it was officially recognised as the official religion of the Imperium and named the Adeptus Ministorum. So you've pretty much got a two hundred year period of rebuilding, restructuring of the Legions into the ways of the Codex, the rise of religion and superstition over the Imperial Truth and the gradual disappearance/deaths of the remaining loyal Primarchs. Religion was a key factor during this time though that bought the people of the Imperium together in the dark days that followed the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243082-what-was-the-imperium-like-post-heresy/#findComment-2950364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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