Combi-Melta vs Melta guns

[Master Melta]

Asartes,

 

I am toying with building a drop pod army with some flare. First wave is going to be 3 drop pods, 2 with sternguard, 1 with command squad backed up by deep striking vanguards and podding tactical marines.

 

I need the first three to be alpha strike armor killers but don't want to make 100% melta teams.

 

I plan on having 2 melta guns in the command squad, as well as some combat equipment to make them a bit harder if charged.

 

The sternguard squad is where I am currently having design questions. 5 man squads, with 2 combi-melta or 5 man squads with 2 melta guns. I have bits for both but not sure what to do here.

 

Combi-meltas keep the special issue ammunition. That's good, but in a 5 man squad is it worth it compared to melta shots per turn?

 

 

What do you think?

 

MM

[Olis]

Personally, I'd go for a combi-melta in the sternguards - the real strength in sternguard squads is the special ammo. Granted it does mean you have a do-or-die situation against enemy armour, if you miss that's your lot, but it kinda depends on what other AT capabilities you have in the army - perhaps if you haven't got much else I'd go for one proper melta and one combi... :confused:

[JamesI]

Generally, I'd go with the combi's. Regular meltas are great, but then you lose the wonderful Sternguard ammo too.

[Ming]

Same. Each sternguard squad needs 3 or more combimeltas for that first turn punch. Follow on squads may need their own source of melta too.

[ak-73]

1 Melta-Gun (+optionally a Heavy Flamer), the rest gets as many combi-weapons as you can afford.

 

Alex

[breng77]

TO an extent the question comes down to are you planning on living more than 1 turn, do you ahve Vulkan (which means your combis will likely do their job). IF you plan on living more than 1 turn, and don't have vulkan, get the regular meltas, (and some combis to boot)

[Master Melta]

Hmm, 5 man squads drop podding in within melta range. I suppose they won't live long enough to shoot more than once... I suppose that begs the next question I have to find an answer too, is that too expensive of a delivery system for some melta guns....

[Paulochromis]

I put a 10-man (2x combi, 2x melta) in a pod and combat squad on arrival.

Depending on proximity to armour I get a few options:

(1) all melta in one squad, all special ammo in the other

(2) both combis in one, both meltas in the other

(3) one melta + one combi in each.

I find option (2) is what I end up going for most often

[Master Melta]

Sounds like a better points saving combo.

 

I admit I am looking to add locator beacons to the pods to help with vanguard assaults turn 2. This would save me 40 points, reduce my elite slot usage by one, but also reduce my drop pods.

 

I had 6 and this would put me at 5 with 70 points to spare. I suppose I should continue this in the army list section to discuss the plan with the rest of the units and their sizes.

[Paulochromis]

don't forget that consensus is that an odd number of pods is best.

no beacons in 2nd wave (the beacons need to be on the board already for deepstriking units to use them).

gating libby can be used to provide post-drop mobility.

[Bannus]

I'd say no combi-weapons for the Sternguard. When you attack a vehicle with a combi-melta or two, you are wasting everyone else in the unit, whoi should be contributing as well.

 

Two options:

 

1) Don't drop your Sterguard early - send them in to mop up after all the transports are gone.

 

2) Drop them behind vehicles with rear armor of 10 and let the volume of fire do the damage.

[OptiMAT]

Got to admit, as others have touched on, it's all about survivability.

 

If you really have to drop the Sternguard in as a Fast-blow fuse then you may as well give them Combi's because it's likely they wont last a turn of the attention they'll create (however this makes for a good distraction to allow you to get into position better etc.) but what the underlying question should be is: Is that really a great use of that many points full stop? if the answer is still yes - and sometimes it will have to be, then stick with the combis but take lots of them because they're cheap and you want the strike to be effective. If the answer is no, then maybe take 1 normal meltagun for lasting high strength weapons and have the rest make the most out of the volume of fire Rapid Fire Special Ammo will allow.

[DarkGuard]

Generally, I'd go with the combi's. Regular meltas are great, but then you lose the wonderful Sternguard ammo too.

 

This is very much my thinking as well. Combi-meltas are brilliant in that it fills in a weakness of Sternguard, allowing them to handle armour if they need to. The prime strength of Sternguard is their special ammo and their anti-infantry potential, why give that up when you don't have to?

[ak-73]

Generally, I'd go with the combi's. Regular meltas are great, but then you lose the wonderful Sternguard ammo too.

 

This is very much my thinking as well. Combi-meltas are brilliant in that it fills in a weakness of Sternguard, allowing them to handle armour if they need to. The prime strength of Sternguard is their special ammo and their anti-infantry potential, why give that up when you don't have to?

 

Sacrificing a single model's special ammo to force the enemy to eliminate the squad to the last man because you remain a non-negligible anti-tank threat is well worth the price to me. It might be an enemy's Dakka Pred that does not go at my Landspeeder or whatever.

 

Alex

[Father Mapple]

Landspeeder, fully kitted out, is 100 points. Sternguard with drop pod with 3 combi-meltas is 175. Unless it's a triple lascannon predator, or a Land Raider, those Sternguard are not earning their points if they get wiped out first turn.

[Olis]

Agreed. Valuable decoy, that. :tu:

[DarkGuard]

Sacrificing a single model's special ammo to force the enemy to eliminate the squad to the last man because you remain a non-negligible anti-tank threat is well worth the price to me. It might be an enemy's Dakka Pred that does not go at my Landspeeder or whatever.

 

Alex

 

And then when you run out of tanks you have a model who cannot contribute much to anti-infantry. One shot that could easily miss, not great if you run into horde or stuff, which seems to be a bit of a resurgence at my LGS. And remember that for dakka preds etc you can still use your krak grenades on rear armour 10, so actually the melta is best used against non cover save Speeders that still moved cruising speed, Land Raiders, Monoliths and Dreads and other walkers that are hard to wreck in CC.

 

And why would you want to give your opponent even more reason to try and wipe out the squad? You've got an expensive unit that have all the durability of a Tactical squad and you're painting a big neon yellow arrow saying shoot me over it. It's already got a small neon yellow arrow for special ammo, I see no reason to enlarge that just so that I can use a melta shot beyond one turn for my anti-infantry unit.

 

Because that's what Sternguard are, anti-infantry, anti-MEQ, anti-MC at a stretch, not anti-mech. You can make them all right against mech, which is why combi-meltas are so useful, but it's not their primary job and neither should you make it so. There are many other units that can do anti-mech for less points and better efficiency, Dreads with MMs and Ironclads with MGs in Drop Pods. MM ABs, MM/HF Speeders. Even Tactical squads with a combi-melta and meltagun will often come out to less points than a Sternguard, and they're not so impressive against infantry thanks to not having special ammo. And why are you using meltaguns to take down Speeders? Surely you've got Typhoons, Rifleman, combi-preds, even lascannon units for that? Typhoons can often get side armour on a pred or Vindy, why do you need your Sternguard to go chasing these units? I use combi-meltas in Sternguard to back up my normal melta, spread the melta about, and give me some shots of opportunity. But they are not my prime source of melta, that belongs to my fast melta.

[ak-73]

Because I lose special ammo on one model? Yeah, I'm willing to take that risk. Since this is the mech edition, chances are once the enemy has lost its vehicles, the game has swung heavily in my favour already. If it means I can determine when my tacticals jump out of their Rhinos and unload in rapid fire range, that's good.

 

Because that's what Sternguard are, anti-infantry, anti-MEQ, anti-MC at a stretch, not anti-mech.

 

Nope. They are what you kit them out for. Anybody who has been using the drop podded double combat squad of Sternguard knows this to be true. They can even be pseudo-Devastators if I want them to be and they are quite fine at that.

 

As for why using melta: because sometimes the situation is like that. In my last game I popped a Org Buggy with the remaining meltagun. All the other guns were directed at more important targets, there was nothing better for the Sternguards to do than just that. Also one (risky) way to employ SG is deep-striking the melta brigade with Gate of Infinity.

 

Even against MEQ, I can jump out of my Rhino, melta those pesky Grey Hunters and then charge in after I have gained sufficient numerical superiority. Both my Heavy Flamer squad as well as my melta squad have an enormous scare factor due to their special weapons against most armies.

 

My melta squad is one of the most all-around useful units I have and that includes factoring in enemy MCs and TEQ.

 

 

Alex

 

PS With all those Predators and TFCs, Missile launchers, Orbital Bombardment and let's not forget Rapid Firing bolters, why wouldn't I be able to give up one or two times special ammo? Makes no sense to me.

[DarkGuard]

PS With all those Predators and TFCs, Missile launchers, Orbital Bombardment and let's not forget Rapid Firing bolters, why wouldn't I be able to give up one or two times special ammo? Makes no sense to me.

 

Well you may be able to, but others, including myself can't! :P

[Coopervisor]

Just had a game where I used Sternguard for the first time. I had 8 Sternguard in a rhino, 3 with combi meltas and 2 with heavy flamers. I had Vulkan in the force (leading some TH/SS terminators) and so the single melta shot was twinlinked which helped (not to mention TL heavy flamers are really nice). If I had more points spare, I think I'd up the unit size to 10 keeping the 3 combi meltas and 2 heavy flamers.

 

They were my stars of the game, taking out 2 units of havocs, a land raider and getting a plague marine squad down to 2 members.