would this work?

[Yotakka]

Hey guys, i've got a question about how you see these two units working together.

 

5 tac termies with CML surrounding the front arc of a Vindicator...

 

This formation would put the vindi in cover, move 6 most turns and still fire, and puts out alot of wounds on hoards and high STR on tougher models. Plus the assault termies would b an assault deterent for the vindi.

 

how do you see this working? any other combos that would be better for the point? BTW im planning on running a pair of theses squads if the idea is as good to you guys as it is in my head.

 

thanks for the comments in advance :D

[ShinyRhino]

By placing the Terminators in an arc in front of the Vindicator, you give every non-vehicle, non-Monstrous Creature unit you shoot at a free 4+ cover save for shooting through an intervening unit.

[Yotakka]

i dont believe thats correct. the vindi is ordinance and that ignores terrain it travels "through" and cover is determined by where the ordinance lands IIRC

[ShinyRhino]

i dont believe thats correct. the vindi is ordinance and that ignores terrain it travels "through" and cover is determined by where the ordinance lands IIRC

 

You're thinking of Ordnance Barrage weapons, which the Vindicator is not (though early copies of some books mistakenly listed it as such, but were later errata'd). If even a sliver of an enemy model is obscured by one of your Terminators from the Vindicator's gun, the whole enemy unit gets a cover save.

[Yotakka]

ahhh. Thank you for that clarification. im slowly brushing up on rules and getting back into 40k again.

 

would it work if i used the full 2" between termies and stacked both sides of the front but not infront of the gun?

[Master Melta]

yeap, the LOS cover is based on from the gun, through objects to the target. So if your vindi's gun didn't have a terminator in front of it, and no cover in between the target and the target is majority out of cover, they are denied cover saves.

 

Infantry shooting through infantry does not get this freedom.

 

That's how we play it.

[Grey Mage]

Youd have to be very careful with placement, but as long as the gun as clear LOS to the target youd be ok.

 

I suppose my question is why would you do this? I mean sure, a cover save for your vindicator is cool and all... but a wise opponent wont be phased- hell just hit your rather out in the open TDA with low AP firepower and then hit the vindicator with his high strength middling AP anti-tank weapons. I think your termies would be better utilized elsewhere against most armies.

[Ming]

Beeeep. Air horn noise. Whatever.

 

If you shoot through one of your units, the non-vehicle, non-MC target gets a cover save. Bubble wrapping causes that kind of thing. Regardless of model positioning. Use a bubblewrapped vindi to shoot at a bunch of grots, and guess what, the grots get a save.

 

It does get a bit iffy though, as everything is determined from the gun barrel for vehicles and height , so to speak. Again, bubblewrapping is a tactic used to shield vehicles from direct assault, and sometimes gives cover to the vehicle. The downside is that as described above. Wrapping is not a miracle.

 

ALSO - if you are bubblewrapping, remember that in assault the assaulting unit CAN go through the wrap IF the distance between your wrapping unit bases is large enough for the assaulting unit to pass through. In this case, your spread distance needs to be tighter than the incoming unit base sizes.

 

An alternative to this scenario (and maybe better) is to have a dozer blade vindi and park it in terrain that would give you a save. Have the terminators to the side of it. Any unit trying to assault you now has to have frag grenade equivalents or assault at I1. The dozer blade is cheap insurance on immobilization.

[ShinyRhino]

If you shoot through one of your units, the non-vehicle, non-MC target gets a cover save. Bubble wrapping causes that kind of thing. Regardless of model positioning. Use a bubblewrapped vindi to shoot at a bunch of grots, and guess what, the grots get a save.

 

That's not actually true. The intervening models must obscure some part of the target unit when drawing line of sight from gun to target.

From the BRB, page 21:

 

Intervening models

If a target is partially hidden from the firer’s view by

other models, it receives a 4+ cover save in the same

way as if it was behind terrain.

This does not mean that intervening models literally

stop the shots, but rather that they obscure the sight of

the firers or otherwise spoil their aim. A successful

cover save in this case might mean that the firer has

not shot at all, missing the fleeting moment when the

target was in its sights. This is because, in the case of

intervening friends, the firer would be afraid of hitting

his comrades; while in the case of intervening enemies,

the firer is distracted by the more immediate threat.

Scenic rocks and other decorative elements that players

might have placed on the base of their models are

always ignored from the point of view of determining

cover (you cannot take your cover with you!).

 

Note the first sentence. The target has to be partially hidden from the firer's view. Even a toe covered by an intervening model from the POV of the gun is enough for a 4+ save. I had this wrong at first, but made sure I looked it up.

Many people forget that it's all TLOS, and have simplified it down to "shoot through a unit, you get cover". It worked that way in 4th, but not 5th.

[DarkGuard]

Now if you wanted bubble wrapping to work wouldn't it be best to just move the Termies out the way in the movement phase, then run them in the shooting phase? Not 100% foolproof but is an option that would maximise your cover saves and minimize theirs.

 

Of course, I'm not convinced that that's the best use for Termies.

[Yotakka]

thanks for all the input guys :D .

 

@Ming- parking em all in cover is my 1st plan of attack with em. this was just a question incase thers not enough terrain @ the new store i'll be playing(my local one closed and thers only one 2+ hours from my town). thanks for reminding me about the assault part. I completely spaced that.

 

@ Dark Guard- That is do able but the reason im using termies is to get some anti tank in my counter attack squad(and because I was given quite a few), and running would negate their shooting. that is a great idea but i think it'd b better if i wer using assault marines or even a command squad with Raz.