Ming Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 We all have seen posts for 5th edition where some new guy loads up an army list to include dozer blades on his vehicles and we tell him it was a waste of 5 points (or so, depending on codex), and we move on. I was talking to Ripped Dragon (sometimes poster at B&C, has a separate blog) about upcoming changes to his army lists caused bu NECRON TACTICAL ABILITIES. Now, I don't (yet) have the new robot codex, but the discussion is that there are powerful necron abilities that can make your table essentially all difficult for vehicles. REALLY? I asked...YEP. See Necron codex for details... So, as a Blood Angels Player Ripped sees that there is a large uptick in new and returning Necron players. And they are at least locally drawn to the concept...make everything move slower so they can be better damaged by Necron weaponry. Tactical problem - BA tanks are fast and need to get those melta-assault squads and razorbacks in close to the enemy FTW. This is typical of all razorspam armies, and is a major part of the current metagame. Solution - add dozerblades to key vehicles. Dozerblades mean you get to reroll that "1" and dramatically reduce chance of immobilization (1 in 6 becomes 1 in 36). Cost for BA vehicles (proof this) is 5 points. Further benefit - BA rhino variants are fast. That extra confidence may mean they just fly through the terrain with 18-inch, (w)reckless abandon...which may benefit them regardless of the opponent. Issue - dozerblades are not included in rhino-variant kits. Reaction - buy dozer blades from bitz stores. May reduce the number of meltaguns or combi-meltas (3 or 4) in your army list, BUT, the random chance you get immobilized is mitigated. For all my 3rd Company vehicles I have 1 dozer blade I never have used... Thoughts? Accuracy? Running out to the local bitz web store? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digits Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Thanks for the heads up! Time to get my dozer blades listed on e-bay!!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 You know, that's an interesting observation. There is a preponderance of lists that are heavy on vehicles, as Razorspam and Leafblower has shown us in the last few years. The Necron terrain-altering abilities seem like a useful way to counter that trend. Dozers are a cheap way to counter the counter :lol". I can see people taking dozers for troop carriers that absolutely, positively must get to the other side of the board. If you can't capture objectives, you don't win objective-based games. However, the type of players who run Razorspam armies don't really factor small-chance things like that into their armies. They figure the statistics of one extra lascannon against the chance of immobilizing a tank when facing a single unit in an army they may or may not face, and they decide the lascannon is better. Now, in our neck of the woods (readers should know Ming and I play at the same shop), there are a ton of Necron bandwagoneers, just like there were a ton of Grey Knight bandwagoneers. Our local meta might make the chances of facing that particular Necron unit combination a little more certain. I know of at least two players already planning to use that in their initial army builds. Dozers can be a useful purchase when you have that level of certainty. I have one Rhino chassis with a built-in dozer, which is the prong type from the Razorback sprue. I hate it. It's aesthetically atrocious. I have a few more that I never used. I also have a couple of the old third-edition scoop/spike style. If you're interested in owning them, I'm sure we can come to an agreement, lol :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I was wondering if the "Sherman Hedgehog" prong accessory in the rhino boxes would indeed be considered a dozer blade. Great for hedgerows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I was wondering if the "Sherman Hedgehog" prong accessory in the rhino boxes would indeed be considered a dozer blade. Great for hedgerows... I'm pretty sure that's what its intended use was/is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Confusion Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I was wondering if the "Sherman Hedgehog" prong accessory in the rhino boxes would indeed be considered a dozer blade. Great for hedgerows... Yes. I consider that to be a dozer blade. Every rhino / razorback kit comes with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Looks like the bigger rush may be on magnets then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulawful Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Will bike bits get cheaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Looks like the bigger rush may be on magnets then... Magnets? Just pins mate, works fine. Four pins, one at the top and bottom of each connecting section, and it stays on fine, cheaper as well, only need paper clips and a drill :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Melta Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I must be in the minority. I always put dozer blades on 2 tac squads in case they need to blast through cover to secure an objective.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I must be in the minority. I always put dozer blades on 2 tac squads in case they need to blast through cover to secure an objective.... I'm with you, sort of. I don't always put them on as they're a good points filler IMO, but I haven't pinned all my transports. IMO for objective grabbers and Sternguard squads (who can move full pelt, get out and rapid fire) they're not a bad use of 5pts. They don't radically increase the price of a Rhino unlike extra armour, and they pretty much make you immune to dangerous terrain roles, giving you more freedom. I have no understanding of why so many people dislike them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak-73 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Thoughts? Accuracy? Running out to the local bitz web store? Before spending money, read this analysis of the necron gimmick list (including rules debate) first: http://www.3plusplus.net/2011/12/necrons-gimmick-list.html Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Looks like there is a bunch of controversy about some Necron units...Like I said, this bears reading into. Overall, if there is a unit that makes clear terrain difficult, it becomes dangerous for vehicles too, likely. Could be interesting for mechanised units. Risk vs reward becomes more acute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilverscale Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 As far as I know this is countered easily by not moving the first turn. (if correct, no need to get those dozer blades) And cron weapons being reduced in range also add to your advantage with this tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 got in a small game - 1225 points - tonight in part to play vs necrons, and just see what sort of things they have. My feeling was - shoot or assault a little vs everything just to see what can happen and look at it as a learning experience. It was very interesting and I was impressed with the new necron codex. The player was using one lord character to make it night with a chance of continuing it, and another character with a staff that could solar flare, and another with the ability to hit models to create difficult terrain issues.He was using a monolith and 2 of the defiler-like walkers, etc. Yep, his control of the game had an impact. I had to go first, he chose not to try and sieze. Turn 1 I was in the dark and pretty much could not get anything done but redeploy. On his turn 1 he flares, and shoots at some of my key units, inflictng damage, even getting a landspeeder to be in difficult terrain. Turn 2 night fighting continued for me. He relentlessly moved forward and focused on my mobile units. Turn 3 he was danger close, and my firing was mediocre. On turn 4 We were in the thick of fighting over 3 objectives and all my landspeeders were wrecked or immobile. Turn 5 to turn 7 it was attrition with me having less and less each turn. At the end, he had 2 objectives, and I had immobile remnants here and there. Hilight for me was a 5 man tac squad charging and ark and wrecking it with some great grenade rolls. Overall I had to take about 8 difficult or dangerous terrain checks caused by the necron abilities, not bad, but got through it. While he experimented with another game vs a daemon player, I spent some free time in his codex. Man there is alot of different cheese there...very complicated, but great for players who like complex controlling lists...and there is alot, as a marine player, to learn about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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