Rapidfire vs Assaulting

[Strata]

I pose a question to the older wolves of the fang. As i work and temper my battle skills, (as well as temper my paints..) I have to wonder, For the grey hunters out listening, How do you restrain that need to charge head long, to revel in the slaughter of our foes, and instead unleash the gate of morkai upon those foolish enough to be within range? When is it that you know its better to open up with bolter fire, then to meet blow to blow with frostblade in hand?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

It can be difficult to decide, but as a general rule of thumb.

 

If they're better than you in assault, but vulnerable to shooting (like genestealers) then stand and shoot, better still if you're in cover and you're still going to whack them first even if they charge.

 

If they're better than you at assault, but get bonuses like furious charge (like Berzerkers) then generally it's better to charge them after firing your pistols/meltaguns/plasma pistol.

 

If they're worse than you in assault then obviously pistol shooting then charging is the way to go, better still if you can keep them tied up during their shooting phase and pop out ready to charge and kill more in your next assault phase.

 

Assault terminators (the standard for assault troops) should not be engaged with Grey Hunters except as a matter of last resort, and even then only after shooting everything you can at them. They're probably an example of the first category. Less vulnerable to shooting, but small in numbers and without assault grenades.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Well, we have counterattack, so offensively it doesn't really matter. Normally, I would feel confident in standing back and shooting, as you have the opportunity to wipe out a fair number of the enemy. Now, if you're fighting Orks or something else that gets a huge boost from charging, I would definitely assault after firing bolt pistols.

[Karack Blackstone]

Anything that gains a better advantage over us when they get the charge, when compared to us meeting them halfway.

 

Things like:

- Orks

- Howling Banshees

- (Furious Assault gainers)

- Berserkers

 

Should all be denied the charge if given the chance. If the enemy can be seen smiling at the prospect of your rapid-fire, you're likely wanting to charge it and fire BP's instead.

 

If getting out of Rhinos or a non-assault ramp equipped vehicle, good luck to you in terms of getting into proper range and position to line up a jump-out and assault (get into position the prior turn). Some feel it may be best to get out on the other side of a Rhino to prevent the assault; this can work, just realize you may be in range of things like Orks which might fleet and meet you on their terms anyway.

 

As with anything, play it by ear, so to speak. Everything is possible, some things unlikely; others however, happen so few times that there's little one can do to prepare save attempting to counter-charge and take the fight to them.

 

Edit: at least we're forming a consensus in terms of the answer...

[Wulfebane]

IMO when you know you're still gunna strike first. Some units benefit greatly from charging. +1A or +1I, etc, and to charge them first would cause their strength to be debilitated.

 

An example where it's preference, however, you could take the Necrons. They're I2, so there's no threat to you attacking first. But, considering they can still come back unless you kill the entire squad, your options come down to preference.

 

Should you Rapid Fire them on your turn, knowing full well that they're going to charge in theirs? Well, if you sit and rapid fire them, you have a small chance of wiping them out utterly, but if you don't, on their turn they could get some good rolls and everyone you killed is back up.

 

Alternately, you could pistol fire them down and then take the fight to them, which most people would probably prefer, as you will get more wounds overall from the combination of shooting and cc.

 

 

I think most people prefer to assault, getting a higher ratio of attacks. Rapid Fire is more when you have two squads near you, but the one that is further away is of more concern and should take priority, but you still have no hope of reaching them for assault. The other reason would be if you know you're going to end up in the 7"-12" inch range, where assaulting isn't possible.

[Vantius]

IMO when you know you're still gunna strike first.

 

 

What he said. Though every situation is different, this factor is (for me) one of the biggest considerations.

[Wysten]

Always angry, all the time.

 

I would quite happily charge most things unless there was a benfit in not charging in there. Such as objectives, cover against a creature lacking grenades, or the unit is simply too powerful to waste melee on and so fourth. Otherwise I find getting effectively 3 attacks on the charge vs less defensively is worth more then 2 shots against even fellow marines, though for units using plasmaguns it's the other way around.

 

Personally, I find it's much better to throw your weight on them at every oppertunity, though rapid fire is still fantastic for those times you have to move full speed, or your gut feeling tells me i can't make the charge.

[Nrthstar]

Here's it breaks down for me:

 

If they are bloodletters?

Y: Then rapid fire and pray to the Emperor

N: Then charge

 

If they are Blood Angels?

Y: then charge to try to remove their furious charge, best if you can pile in two units vs their one if they are in the fnp bubble.

If they have a blender dread nearby, move away and fire, it's a trap, they are just tar pitting you till the blender dread can get to you. Only stick around if you have a dread with a dccw to intercept and save your wolves.

 

If they are genestealers with a broodlord:

 

Y: Then rapidfire and pray to the allfather that you can hit the broodlord. They naturally have a killer ws and i, so charge or not, you're likely dead if you can't rip them apart pre cc.

 

It goes on of course, like are they necrons, then always charge, you don't want them shooting back and we eat them in cc. You get the point, it's totally situational, so you're left with reading all the codexes to know the best face off, or get in a lot of games. I prefer the latter.

 

-North

[Jonas Stromclaw]

It's already been said, shoot if it will assault you, assault if it has FC or will shoot. But I have one proviso to add. Against assault units with FC, you may want to shoot if your pack's weaponry is optimized and the target isn't too large a squad. With a 10 man berserker squad bearing down, a GH pack with melta guns is probably better off assaulting. But a GH pack with plasma guns might kill enough with rapid fire, particularly if the zerkers have already been whittled down by two or three.

[W40KEsq]

It can be difficult to decide, but as a general rule of thumb.

 

If they're better than you in assault, but vulnerable to shooting (like genestealers) then stand and shoot, better still if you're in cover and you're still going to whack them first even if they charge.

 

If they're better than you at assault, but get bonuses like furious charge (like Berzerkers) then generally it's better to charge them after firing your pistols/meltaguns/plasma pistol.

 

If they're worse than you in assault then obviously pistol shooting then charging is the way to go, better still if you can keep them tied up during their shooting phase and pop out ready to charge and kill more in your next assault phase.

 

Assault terminators (the standard for assault troops) should not be engaged with Grey Hunters except as a matter of last resort, and even then only after shooting everything you can at them. They're probably an example of the first category. Less vulnerable to shooting, but small in numbers and without assault grenades.

 

I'm in general agreement with this.

 

Additionally, the tactical importance of the situation can dictate my call. If I have a unit on an objective and I know my opponents Berzerkers are going to contest it, I may tie them up in CC with a unit able to intercept them even knowing I'll lose eventually, just to keep them from getting to what really matters. Especially late game and against some tough CC foes that can be useful.

 

Reverse that, and their are some units I know my Grey Hunters can reduce to pieces, but I also know it'll take awhile. Shooting I can always manuver after, but once I'm commited into CC I'm stuck. Tarpitting isn't as useful in 40k as it is in Fantasy, but more then once I've kept a unit free to get back in it's Rhino and go hold something that mattered because I resisted the urge to mutilate a foe that didn't really matter.

 

And sometimes... just sometimes... you charge for the sake of charging. B)

Especially if it probably wont' change the outcome too much, a little aggresive madness keeps other players on their toes when they play you!