Assault Squad Swarm

[ShinyRhino]

my DIY Chapter is plasma heavy, so I run a 5 man ASM with Chaplain, with jump packs. 3 plasma pistols and 2 power weapons, with rerolls on the assault. Usually makes a mess of things. In higher point games, I bump them to 10 man, add another plas, and if I really want to burn points, throw in a captain to boot...

 

Standard Codex? So, plasma on the sergeant, one Marine, and the Chaplain, correct?

[gogsmash]

Thanks for the advice dudes. Do you think the addition of a Chaplain to the 10-man assault squad would enable them to beat a 20-man necron warrior squad? That's kind of what I'm aimng for with my jump packers.

[Chengar Qordath]

Thanks for the advice dudes. Do you think the addition of a Chaplain to the 10-man assault squad would enable them to beat a 20-man necron warrior squad? That's kind of what I'm aimng for with my jump packers.

Your assault squad would probably win; even with numbers, Necron Warriors are very weak in cc.

[Ming]

For generic marines, if I bought a new box of assault marines, I'd magnetize the jump packs and get another rhino (razorback or whirlwind kit).

 

I've used the 2xplasma and PF/SS squad on and off for a while, and they can do pretty well (depending on terrain).

 

For hordes (if I could plan in advance for them) might as well go 2xflamer + combiflamer. Look to do some damage and charge in. May not need a PW or miss one extra attack ater all the flaming.

 

(BTW...off topic...in COD black ops last night I ran around with a flamer attached to my assault gun...lots of fun...I bet my opponents were pissed to be set on fire every time they ran into that control room...)

 

If you are a GW codex research troll reading this...

 

Chainswords should be RENDING. Just that little bit of improvement would bring back the lustre.

 

Overall, the control of weapons (lack of melta) in the generic marine codex for assault marines was likely a mechanic to make other codexi more distinct (like BAs). It happens.

 

But the lack of RENDING means they just don't read their own fluff...

 

Not that I'm bitter.

[Bartali]

Codex Space Marines dont really have a dedicated CQC unit, not to compete with, say, Bezerkers; certainly not one you can field as a 10 man squad.

 

200pt TH/SS Terminators are still probably the premier assault unit in the game. There's also the oft forgotten Bike command squad.

[Bannus]

Tactics for Marine assault squads are very simple - fight the shooty stuff, shoot the fighty stuff.

This has worked in the past, but with Codex Creep it is getting hard to find anything that an Assault Squad can outfight.

 

What in a GK army would an Assault Squad actually fight successfully in hand-to-hand?

 

Heck, they break even against a basic Chaos Space Marine Squad (non-cult) - which is pretty sad statement right there.

 

It will be a pretty sad day when the only units that Assault Squads can effectively beat in assault will be Tau Fire Warriors and small IG units. :D

[Koremu]

Tactics for Marine assault squads are very simple - fight the shooty stuff, shoot the fighty stuff.

This has worked in the past, but with Codex Creep it is getting hard to find anything that an Assault Squad can outfight.

 

What in a GK army would an Assault Squad actually fight successfully in hand-to-hand?

 

Heck, they break even against a basic Chaos Space Marine Squad (non-cult) - which is pretty sad statement right there.

 

It will be a pretty sad day when the only units that Assault Squads can effectively beat in assault will be Tau Fire Warriors and small IG units. :D

Ork Boyz Mobz and Tyranid gaunt subspecies are pretty easy prey for Assault Squads. Both of them suffer from the combination of Fearless and poor armour saves.

 

That said, Assault Squads suffer from their lack of ability to deal with armour saves. The really need those Chainswords to have Rending.

[ShinyRhino]

Thanks for the advice dudes. Do you think the addition of a Chaplain to the 10-man assault squad would enable them to beat a 20-man necron warrior squad? That's kind of what I'm aimng for with my jump packers.

Your assault squad would probably win; even with numbers, Necron Warriors are very weak in cc.

 

Indeed. Due to your greater Initiative, you can expect to drop about 4 Warriors on the charge (after hit, wound, and save rolls). You'll likely lose one Marine to the remaining 16 Warriors at I2, and then a Sergeant with a powerfist smacks down two more Warriors at I1. You win 6:1, the Necrons roll morale on a 5, and if they break, you catch and Sweep them on a 4+ at worst.

[gogsmash]

The prospect of magnetising my models terrifies me!! Also, a 20-strong necron warrior squad soundly brought down my friend's rampaging daemon prince in CC once... He charged in and 3 turns later he was worm food, only having killed 4 warriors. I wouldn't underestimate them! Everyone seems to think a power fist is the way to go with the sergeant but I built him with a power weapon; I thought the PF's sluggishness was annoying. 25pts is a lot!

[maturin]

Ork Boyz Mobz and Tyranid gaunt subspecies are pretty easy prey for Assault Squads. Both of them suffer from the combination of Fearless and poor armour saves.

 

That said, Assault Squads suffer from their lack of ability to deal with armour saves. The really need those Chainswords to have Rending.

 

Which is where Vanguard can really shine. Yes, everyone roll their eyes now. :whistling:

 

I'd never take them with jump packs, but if you stick them in a rhino/razorback with a chappie (as OptiMAT suggests), and give them a couple of extra bodies and ~60 points of upgrades (relic blade, power weapon, 2x storm sheilds) then you have a unit that can successfully take on everything in the MEQ world short of assault termies - even Grey Knights. 3 relic blade attacks, 8 PW attacks, and a bunch of regular attacks all rerolling to hit at ~330 points isn't too bad. Plus the storm shields allow you to take some PW attacks back without horrifying losses. And they're mobile, until their box on treads gets shot out from under them.

 

But as it sounds like the OP wants jump pack units, I may have just wasted my typing...

[Hellios]

You make chainswords rending and then Chaos Chainswords and Khorne Berzerker chainaxes rend and have the old no save better than 4+ rule and Orks get that back and Genestealers count as having power weapons and Mephiston becomes auto-win... Space marines won't play as they described in the stories... Unless GW changes the game so a tactical squad is a 1,500pt army like they are in the Movie marines IA or an entire imperial guard platoon costs the same as a standard IG infantry squad does at the moment.

 

Assault marines are not close combat specialists... They are tactical marines equipped for combat and given equipment to help them get their with a little haste! They will not win against combat specialists... 1 on 1

 

DE/Eldar units go before them... and will often ignore armor saves... Wyches and Striking scorpions can drown you in attacks but with them being T3 you might be able to even things out.

 

Chaos cult units go before you or are plague marines that are always hard to kill... If your in combat with 1ksons then you might be able to win it.. The question is will your power weapon/fist sgt outlive the sorcerer.

 

Grey Knights are elite all rounders...

 

Ogryns... not sure how the average fight works out but was a squad of Ogryns really the best target in the entire guard army for your Assault squad?

 

What assault squads should be used for is assaulting shooty units... A 10 man tactical squad is fine but a 5 man dev squad is a better target... You know praying on units you will out number or are fairly useless in combat...

 

The second use is counter assault/mopping up. So supporting another unit that has been assaulted or maybe joining up with an expensive assault unit like terminators to try and get a big multi-assault sweep. or mopping up enemy units before that are just standing around or about to hit your defensive line. I don't tend to kit my squads with plasma as I don't use them for cracking armor of any sort... I do however love twin-flamers in codices where it is an option... Two well positioned flamers will probably cause some pain even to a MEQ squad and against Orks or nids and maybe the new Scarab menace XD it can save your life. 30 Orks bearing down on you? Two flamers and a couple of bolt pistols could easily make that 20 Orks and that could just tip the balance of combat from a defeat or drawn out grind to a decent win in your favor.

[Bartali]

I had a go at building an Assault based C:SM list, not sure it's entirely competitive, but should be able to hold it's own.

 

1500pts

Shrike

5x Command Squad w/ Bikes, Power Weapon, Power Fist, Meltagunx2, Storm Shieldx2

5xTH/SS Terminators

5x Scouts w/ Combi-Melta, Missile Launcher

5x Scouts w/ Combi-Melta, Missile Launcher

5x Scouts w/ Combi-Melta, Missile Launcher

5x Scouts w/ Combi-Melta, Missile Launcher

10x Assault Marines w/ Power Weapon, Flamersx2

2x Attack Bikes w/ Multi-Melta

2x Attack Bikes w/ Multi-Melta

 

Half the problem with Assault Marines in the C:SM codex is that their in the Fast slot, and end up competing with Attack Bikes and Speeders. Probably would of taken more if they were in troops and/or could take Meltaguns (which amongst other things makes them so good for BA).

[greatcrusade08]

200pt TH/SS Terminators are still probably the premier assault unit in the game. There's also the oft forgotten Bike command squad.

 

i disagree with the termies.. people pigeonhole themselves to I1 for the sake of teh extra stormshields.. because of this i cannot number the times ive beatn them in cc with assault scouts..

assault is initiative driven and those storm shields only work vs power weapons.

 

TH termies are not the premier unit, becuase premier also suggest value, but they need a Lr transport to make them more effective and therefore needs to be considered in the 'value' stakes

 

no TH termies arent the biz, people think they are, but they really arent.. a customiseable command squad is much better IMO

[Bartali]

I disagree with most of your points ^_^

 

Assault units tend to come in two flavours in 40K - High Initiative and made of paper (Banshees, DCA etc) or low initiative and durable (either via saves or numbers). It doesn't matter if you're going last, as long as you're still there to donk people with a hammer/klaw/tentacle at the end of the turn.

 

I'd also disagree they need a transport. They work fine as a counter attacking force in midfield, with GoI Libby to re-deploy should they need too.

 

Mass light infantry isn't what you'd normally use TH/SS Terminators for (that's what the Tacs are for), but math hammering out 10 Scouts (BP,CCW,PF) vs 5 TH/SS Teminators has the scouts making a leadership check on -2 after the first round. That's with giving the scouts the most favourable conditions - they get the charge, and a shot off with the BPs.

 

Of course TH/SS Terminators can't deal with everything (mass attacks will take them down), but they should be able to deal with most other elite cc units.

[Bannus]

Assault marines are not close combat specialists...

Well - according to the fluff - yes, they are.

 

What assault squads should be used for is assaulting shooty units... A 10 man tactical squad is fine but a 5 man dev squad is a better target... You know praying on units you will out number or are fairly useless in combat...

You realize that this is only a small percentage of most armies (outside of Tau) - thus limiting their effectiveness. Compound this with the other Fast Attack selections (as Bartali points out), its getting harder and harder to justify using them.