First two game as Space Wolves

[SpacePuppy]

My list:

Rune Priest with Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane and Chooser

2 Rhino's with HK missiles

9 GH with Melta and Standard

8 GH with Melta and Standard

 

His list:

BA Regular assault squad 5 man with Melta with Librarian

BA Regular assault squad 5 man with Melta, Seargant with Power Fist and Sanguinary priest

2x Razorbacks with LasPlas

 

1st game:

Move my rhinos and score a destroyed result on 1 Razorback with living lightning and this is the only KP i would get in both games. Our rhino's and razorbacks wind up face to face, he LasPlas'd one rhino and immobilized and destroyed one HK it and disembarked, my HK missile whiffed. My squad had to disembark from the blown up rhino but he picked off half with the other LasPlas razorback on the next turn and then killed my remaining GH's with bolters and the assault. Other GH's disembarked killed one BA marine and got killed on the shooting phase and assault. He was attacking at Initiative 5 so i had no chance and he nulified some psychic attacks with his hood.

 

2nd game:

Pretty much the same thing, his LasPlas destroys my rhinos then he shoots me up and gets the assault and i get wiped out, didnt get a single KP in game two and didnt kill a single marine. He has re-rolls and furious charge, i didnt stand a chance in CC. My 2nd squad of GH's with the rune priest couldnt do anything because they disembarked from the rhino because i thought i could assault (how ridiculous is that, rhino doesnt move but i cant assault after disembarking? I step down on the ground but cant assault, ridiculous!) but i also had nothing to shoot at so he killed the squad he was engaged with then consolidated to me then killed me in his turn without me getting a shot or cc attack back.

 

Heres the thing, i dont think i did anything wrong, i stayed at range as best i could on a table thats so short, got off as many LL's as i could, HK missiles didnt hit ONCE and i never got the charge

 

I was told SW's were good at low point games, the low cost GH's and low cost weapons combined with a great 100 point HQ are supposed to clean up. How economical can they really be when he gets TWO LasPlas transports at -35 points EACH all the while having furious charge, unleash rage AND feel no pain. Power fists and melta guns to boot.

 

Even Hellen Keller should have been able to get a win or more than ONE KP in TWO games. Im not even a bad player my Chaos army does well, i'm above .500 with them.

 

I was told my list is competitive for 500 points, what went wrong? If this is how SW's are going to play then why even bother with them, i should go back to Chaos. I doubt i'll ever have two games that went so poorly.

 

EDIT: My friend told me i cant assault out of a rhino if i disembarked the same turn even if it didnt move, but i just read the rules now and i see that i can...sigh, that would have made a big difference in the second game

[G. A. K.]

First and foremost welcome to the Fang!! Ale always helps the battle fatigue

Take heart, 'fast' marine vehicles are very hard to out manuver even when things are going your way. I'd consider dropping the HKs for a power weapon in each squad or a few two more marines for the second unit, best case for the future get some power fists; they may go last but they mess up armor and wound easily. I didn't like them much when I started either because I wanted to go at Int to get my kills but believe me they pay off in the end when you face different non-marine armies and you need the strength to hit high toughness badies but I digress...

 

What I really wanted to respond to is the fact that if your Rhino doesn't move before you get out during your move phase you can indeed move and assault normally as if you were never in a tank. Live and learn, its not like there are a 100 pages of wierd rules to know or anything just to play this game. you're only restricted by the assault thing if the tank moves and then you get out in the same phase (and turning on the spot counts).

 

Your list is a solid base but its not going to be easy to fight an opponent with tanks when you don't have any heavy weapons to reliably take out thiers. Your just out-gunned, strength 7 LL is cool but it isn't what I would count on for my anti-tank. It takes a 4 just to glance and thats not counting rolling to hit and whether or not e gets cover.

500 pts is rough to do especially since he isn't following force org and has no HQ ( my bad i guess I didn't notice he hada libby in one of his squads. disregard statement please :D ). but not everyone has the models to do that and thats cool, you've gotta start somewhere.

 

Good luck in the future and hang in there, it gets better

 

G

[SpacePuppy]

Yeah power weapons would have been better now that i think of it.

 

His HQ was his Librarian

 

Me and him just re-rolled combat had i assaulted his 5 man squad that was engaged with 2 grey hunters near the end of game two.

 

Without power weapons i got his 5 man squad and his other 5 man down to 3 models when he killed my last guy. We went 2 and a half full rounds of combat before he beat me. 5 rounds with power weapons/fists would have killed him, so i had a chance to win the 2nd game if i could have blown up his razorbacks

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

500 points is difficult because there isn't much choice in what you can take seeing as you need to have 2 squads of grey hunters. If you drop the hunter killer missile (too expensive for one-shot weapons) and the chooser you'll be able to make one grey hunter squads up to 10 strong which gives you a free extra special weapon (I'd take extra meltas). The other one you could give a mark of the wulfen because that is amazing with wolf standard and really takes apart smaller squads where even one ignored armour save is a big deal.

 

The problem with a power fist on grey hunters is that its bastardly expensive and only gets one attack which is too easy to fluke so I'd count on weight of numbers to take out characters and the force weapon of the rune priest (if he's still alive - try to get him into combat with a unit that has no power fist).

 

You need to stay in cover which should help you survive lascannon shots for a while and make him come to you - don't try to get into combat with him before having rapid fired for one turn because you'll lose that combat. Remember you get counter attack so getting charged after having shot two enemy models off the board is preferable to charging a full strength squad. I'd stay in cover with everything (after having been blown up rhinos still serve nicely for that purpose) so his plasma gets less dangerous) and worry about taking the tanks after you've wiped out the infantry.

 

You just gotta remember that space wolves aren't really a close combat army. They're good at it, but we are too good at shooting to beak blood angels in close combat (seeing as that's basically all they can do). So we have to shoot them first and then chop them apart in combat when they've been softened up a little.

[Hellrender]

important thing with BA, is to make sure they don't charge you. Either by charging first (easiest) or keeping out of range (could prevent shooting). Once they do charge have the possibility of furious charge, which means they strike first, which is pain for your grey hunters.

[dswanick]

My list:

Rune Priest with Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane and Chooser

2 Rhino's with HK missiles

9 GH with Melta and Standard

8 GH with Melta and Standard

 

His list:

BA Regular assault squad 5 man with Melta with Librarian

BA Regular assault squad 5 man with Melta, Seargant with Power Fist and Sanguinary priest

2x Razorbacks with LasPlas

By my estimation, your opponent's list came in at 541pts while yours came in at 485pts. If this is correct, then your opponent had a 56pt advantage on you - over 10% more forces. Plus, as pointed out above, his unit's were better geared for the encounter.

[SpacePuppy]

My list:

Rune Priest with Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane and Chooser

2 Rhino's with HK missiles

9 GH with Melta and Standard

8 GH with Melta and Standard

 

His list:

BA Regular assault squad 5 man with Melta with Librarian

BA Regular assault squad 5 man with Melta, Seargant with Power Fist and Sanguinary priest

2x Razorbacks with LasPlas

By my estimation, your opponent's list came in at 541pts while yours came in at 485pts. If this is correct, then your opponent had a 56pt advantage on you - over 10% more forces. Plus, as pointed out above, his unit's were better geared for the encounter.

Did you factor in the -35 he gets on his transports for not having jump packs on his 5 man squads?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Librarian 100

Sanguinary Priest 50

5 Assault Marines meltagun 110

5 Assault Marines meltagun power fist 135

Razorback lascannon, twin-linked plasma 90-35

Razorback lascannon, twin-linked plasma 90-35

Total 505

 

Rune Priest chooser 110

9 Grey Hunters meltagun standard 150

8 Grey Hunters meltagun standard 135

Rhino hunter killer missile 45

Rhino hunter killer missile 45

Total 485

 

The Blood Angels had a slight numerical advantage but not by much. It was that power fist which put them over.

 

For myself, at 500 points I'd play a similar game. In small games more units is more valuable than larger units.

 

Rune Priest, chooser, living lightning murderous hurricane 110

5 Grey Hunters, meltagun, Razorback, lascannon, twin-linked plasma gun 155

5 Grey Hunters, meltagun, Razorback, lascannon, twin-linked plasma gun 155

3 Long Fangs, 2 missile launchers 65

Total 485

 

For the remaining 15 points I could stick a power weapon on the squad that the Rune Priest is with to make a more effective assault squad.

[MonSTeR]

I agree that your list is a good "all round" list but it looks somewhat like your opponent has tooled up specifically to go after other marines, and maybe you could take this to heart somewhat.

 

Assuming that your list comes in at 15 points under the maximum like dswanick says you're already a man down, stick this 15 points in a 10th grey hunter for the 9 man pack and get that free special weapon. My view would be to tool this squad with 2x plasma guns, yes it limits your anti-tank a bit, but it maximises your medium range anti-heavy infantry power that's also capable of popping a Razorback.

 

In my opinion, you should be trying to keep him at bay and make him receive as much firepower as possible before he gets to you, because as others have said, SW are great at close combat, but they're still not a dedicated close combat army. Our strength comes in wearing down the opposition at long range, and then making the melee a losing proposition for them. Once he's had a couple of rounds of shooting.

 

You're still lacking long range firepower and I see what you did with the HK missiles on the Rhinos.

 

The other thing is then can you reconfigure somehow to give you more long range/medium range firepower?

 

If you're resticted to 1 HQ and 2 troop choices, I'd suggest you fight fire with fire and convert the HK and chooser points into a razorback, even if this means you have to shrink the pack size down to 6 to fit everyone in and cover the points, you might have enough points for a power weapon!

 

The other thing you could do (assuming force organisation allows), is shrink the second pack size down to minmum take the rhino and lose chooser and the HKs and look at a small (3 man) long fang pack you could run the RP with the long fangs with unlimited range LL, and then if points allow, 2x ML or even 2xHB. A lot of folks overlook the HB because it's average strength and average AP, but if you have enough shots going in, something is going to give. If you have the points for ML, well Razorback don't react too well to Krak missiles, and neither do small squads of marines...

[Lumdin]

What was the force organization chart restriction?

 

If you are allowed one heavy choice then I would do something like this.

 

Rune Priest with Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane - 100

 

5 - GH- w / meltagun + wolf standard w/ Rhino - 125

5 - GH- w/ meltagun w/ razorback -HB - 120

 

5 - LF w / 4- ML / razorback -HB - 155

 

 

Total 500

 

 

Use the Long fangs to pop his vehicles then use living lightening and heavy bolters to shred his foot sloggging troops

 

Just my 2 cents

[SpacePuppy]

yeah my next purchase is going to be 3 sets of forgeworld heavy weapons so i can load up 5 long fangs with ML's and get meltas for my GH's. But until then i have a big pet peeve not doing WYSIWYG so i may wait til i have actual launchers before i play with launchers.

 

Stoopid GW not giving us what we need, seriously so frustrating

[dswanick]

My list:

Rune Priest with Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane and Chooser

2 Rhino's with HK missiles

9 GH with Melta and Standard

8 GH with Melta and Standard

 

His list:

BA Regular assault squad 5 man with Melta with Librarian

BA Regular assault squad 5 man with Melta, Seargant with Power Fist and Sanguinary priest

2x Razorbacks with LasPlas

By my estimation, your opponent's list came in at 541pts while yours came in at 485pts. If this is correct, then your opponent had a 56pt advantage on you - over 10% more forces. Plus, as pointed out above, his unit's were better geared for the encounter.

Did you factor in the -35 he gets on his transports for not having jump packs on his 5 man squads?

Yes. I mis-read the "His list" to mean that his opponent fielded 4 Assault marines with BP/CCW, 1 w/ Melta/CCW, and the Sergeant - so 6-marine squads plus the leader models, not 5. :lol:

[eyeslikethunder]

For myself, at 500 points I'd play a similar game. In small units more units is more valuable than larger units.

 

Rune Priest, chooser, living lightning murderous hurricane 110

5 Grey Hunters, meltagun, Razorback, lascannon, twin-linked plasma gun 155

5 Grey Hunters, meltagun, Razorback, lascannon, twin-linked plasma gun 155

3 Long Fangs, 2 missile launchers 65

Total 485

 

For the remaining 15 points I could stick a power weapon on the squad that the Rune Priest is with to make a more effective assault squad.

 

 

Of the lists suggested so far this is the one I would take. The las/plas gives 4-6 shots of FNP ignoring shots. The living lightning and missiles give you greater long range firepower than him. And make sure you charge not him. If your lucky your firepower will pop his transport early forcing him to cross the board while being shot. Plus you should be to at least stop his tanks from fireing through stunning or better. While he should not have enough ranged firepower to shut down your shooting. The only reason i would take a rhino would be to have my LF's in so both heavy weapons could shoot out. But razor backs are best at this level as they have more alround ability. The PW is a good suggestion for the remaining points. I would be tempted to have RP with the fangs at the beginning as he cant shoot out of RB's. Then move to join the GH as the enemy closes. This would depend on the mission of course.

[Rikochet]

For myself, at 500 points I'd play a similar game. In small units more units is more valuable than larger units.

 

Rune Priest, chooser, living lightning murderous hurricane 110

5 Grey Hunters, meltagun, Razorback, lascannon, twin-linked plasma gun 155

5 Grey Hunters, meltagun, Razorback, lascannon, twin-linked plasma gun 155

3 Long Fangs, 2 missile launchers 65

Total 485

 

For the remaining 15 points I could stick a power weapon on the squad that the Rune Priest is with to make a more effective assault squad.

 

 

Of the lists suggested so far this is the one I would take the las/plas as it gives 4-6 shots of FNP ignoring shots. The living lightning and missiles give you greater long range firepower than him. And make sure you charge not him. If your lucky your firepower will pop his transport early forcing him to cross the board while being shot. Plus you should be to at least stop his tanks from fireing through stunning or better. While he should not have enough ranged firepower to shut down your shooting. The only reason i would take a rhino would be to have my LF's in so both heavy weapons could shoot out. But razor backs are best at this level as they have more alround ability.

 

Either that, or remove chooser and add another long fang with another ML with the 10 unlocked points plus the unused 15. Maybe stick the rp with the LFs too to LL to get more use of LL. Considering the BA squads have no assault packs and wont assault as quick :rolleyes:

[eyeslikethunder]

extra missile is a good option. also try to kill the SP as he provides most their extra combat power either through shooting the his transport and squad(make sure wound allocation is done) or by assigning attacks in CC. without him they much weaker and more vulnerable