MomentoMori Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I have this sqaud of death company and I'm nut really sure how killy it is. 550points 11 models total 10x bolters, 2x power fists, all with jump packs. Plus lemartes Can this unit take out a TH/SH Terminator squad or 5x pallie or a basic wolfstar unit on the charge after rapid fire goodness? Don't care bout if I should run my DC with or with out jp, pistols, Pw. Just want to know how my squad would fair against other deathstar type units. Also with lemartes with and without a wound. THANK YOU VERY MUCH with any insight on how the fights would go. I'm planning on this squad to be in every BA list I make So gonna build around it. Only change I'm willing to make is adding more bodies to the squad. That's why I have my curiosity of their performance against other strong units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkrieg861 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Bro, mathhammer is basic algebra... take your units number of attacks times how many shoukd hit, factor in rwrolls, take that new number to wounds then saves. Without doing the math i would say you will win but its not gunna be pretty. Lemme do the ath and I will get back to you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkrieg861 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Guess I was wrong! 1.72 wounds from Lemmy (assuming he is all pissed) 2.21 wounds from bolters 4.74 from regular attacks not even counting power fists Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soups Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 This better be worth it. I'm waiting for someone to beat me to it. Just an FYI, I use dice math hammer, not %. In case of not even numbers, I round. (using 16% a die facing) Assumtion: Enemy. WS4. T4. I4. Sv 2+(5+). You charging 11 DC 21 bolter shots 3(charging) attacks=(24 normal attacks,6 power fists, *4 lemartes) *guns 21*(2/3)=13.8 or hits. 14 * (1/2)= 7 wounds 7*(1/6)=1.12 or 1 unsaved wound 1 dead termnators *Melee. 24*(2/3)=15.84 or 16. 8 misses*(2/3)=5.28 or 5 for reroll. 21 hits. 21*(2/3)=13.86 or 14. 7 misses*(2/3)=4.62 or 5 for reroll. 19 wounds. 19*(1/6)=3.04 or 3 unsaved wounds 3 dead terminators Lemartes 4*(2/3)=2.64 or 3. 1 miss*(2/3)=.66 or 1 for reroll. 4 hits. 4*2/3=same same same. 4 wounds(just from experience, rarely does lemartes do 4 wounds. My dice don't like me though) 4*(2/3)(5+invuln)=2.64 or 3 unsaved wounds 3 dead terminators. 7 dead terminators before they swing at you. Power fists 6*(2/3)=4. 2 rerolls*(2/3)=1.32 or 1. 5 hits. 5*(5/6)=4ish. 1 reroll*(5/6)=.82 or 1. 5 wounds. 5*(2/3)=3.3 or 3. 3 unsaved wounds 3 dead terminators At the end of combat, you should have killed 10 terminators, at a heavy cost. And if 40k used a d10 system, I would happily use normal math hammer. But since we use d6's, it makes me feel better to use my version. This is how I do math hammer. Not the best method to some, but I don't stress about having the most statistically deadly army, unless Ard Boyz rolls around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstraWlad Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 ...21 bolter shots ... *guns 21*(2/3)=13.8 or hits. 14 * (1/2)= 7 wounds 7*(1/6)=1.12 or 1 unsaved wound 1 dead termnators That can be translated from the math language as: "throw your bolters in the trash and take bolt pistols for more attacks" :teehee: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnyb Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 ...21 bolter shots ... *guns 21*(2/3)=13.8 or hits. 14 * (1/2)= 7 wounds 7*(1/6)=1.12 or 1 unsaved wound 1 dead termnators That can be translated from the math language as: "throw your bolters in the trash and take bolt pistols for more attacks" :teehee: The only model that requires a bolter is the powerfist guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 ...21 bolter shots ... *guns 21*(2/3)=13.8 or hits. 14 * (1/2)= 7 wounds 7*(1/6)=1.12 or 1 unsaved wound 1 dead termnators That can be translated from the math language as: "throw your bolters in the trash and take bolt pistols for more attacks" :blink: To some 1 dead terminator before you assault is better than 2 dead terminators and 1 friendly casualty. And killing 10 terminators and losing say 4 models is almost always better than killing 12 terminators and losing 6. So no, don't throw them away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 ...21 bolter shots ... *guns 21*(2/3)=13.8 or hits. 14 * (1/2)= 7 wounds 7*(1/6)=1.12 or 1 unsaved wound 1 dead termnators That can be translated from the math language as: "throw your bolters in the trash and take bolt pistols for more attacks" :) To some 1 dead terminator before you assault is better than 2 dead terminators and 1 friendly casualty. And killing 10 terminators and losing say 4 models is almost always better than killing 12 terminators and losing 6. So no, don't throw them away. Statistics are fine, but IMHO you usually won't see a 10-man Termie squad, more like 5 + a Libby, Chaplain or Priest of some variant. So, Lemmy and 10 bolter DC would have their hands full trying to wipe that unit off the field in 1 turn. There are too many other variable numbers that weren't represented in the math-hammer above, but it's a good start to your planning. Deathstars shouldn't be aimed at the enemy's deathstar, instead they should wreak havoc against as many soft targets as possible first, then the climactic showdown in the later turns. At least that's what I try to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstraWlad Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 To some 1 dead terminator before you assault is better than 2 dead terminators and 1 friendly casualty. And killing 10 terminators and losing say 4 models is almost always better than killing 12 terminators and losing 6. I have never seen 12 termies in one squad and usually there are just 5 of them. And while pistols give you only 33% more attacks at your charge (4 instead of 3), at enemies one it will be 50% increase (3 instead of 2) that really makes a difference. By the way I never got any decent results from bolters (storm bolters, hurrikane bolters, etc) - they do so little damage that it is just negligible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I have never seen 12 termies in one squad and usually there are just 5 of them. And while pistols give you only 33% more attacks at your charge (4 instead of 3), at enemies one it will be 50% increase (3 instead of 2) that really makes a difference. By the way I never got any decent results from bolters (storm bolters, hurrikane bolters, etc) - they do so little damage that it is just negligible. 1st point bolded: Base squad of 5 Termies; add up to 5 more, making 10; then attach multiple TDA ICs ie Libby, Chaplain/Reclusiarch, SP or Captain. 2nd point underlined: One kill by shooting is 1 or more attack-backs less in combat! Also, situation depending, you're most likely going to face superior TDA equipped foes if the enemy commander is smart - as you should do the same - so have Faith in the Emperor and force as many dice rolls as possible! Are there better ways to deal with TDA? Certainly, but the imperium is not likely to hand us easily defeated foes so we must believe in our bolters chainswords and geneseed! :wub: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 This whole thing is flawed though as you are not considering initiative. Grey Knights with Halberds will mess this DC squad up. The power fists will also not be that valuable against standard (power fist wielding terminators) as they will hit you back as you finish them off with your own power fists. I don't know what you are up against with points, but you might want to consider dumping the jump packs and Lemartes. Take a vanilla reclusiarch, add 3 power weapons, and a land raider redeemer. You'll still lose to GK with Halberds, but you will get the Land Raider's shooting attacks (assault cannon + Multi Melta, and potentially some s6 flame). Drive up, jump out, shoot, charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomentoMori Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Thank you for all the numbers. You guys rock. Yeah the jump pack DC like I said is my army core. There being supported by stormravens full of DC and F.dreads with scoring units inside. Its really an all or nothing army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soups Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 In my many years of using Death Company (4), Death Company are NOT a unit you slam into another person's death star in 5th edition. Back in the olden PDF days, when free rending, you could go nuts slamming Lemartes and Co into everything and everybody. They are a sledge hammer. A fast moving sledge hammer that you slam into someone's knee caps. I have never trusted rage now that DC are 5 points more a model (and unstearable) so they always get put into a stormraven death ball or even the LandraiderX. Death Company do great with another dreadnought, preferable with blood talons. And never say never, AstraWald. My local Salamanders player runs an 11 man wall of shooty termies. And given Grey Knights, it isn't that far out not to see alot of termies in one place. Nothing is wrong with having all your eggs in one basket. Just don't expect great results facing 21 missiles or the Razorspam lists/guard parking lots. It all depends who you play against :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 ^^^^^ Agree with Soups post above. One of the great GW mysteries. Release a great Death Company kit, but then make them worse than the PDF codex, and cost more points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2943984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soups Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 ^^^^^ Agree with Soups post above. One of the great GW mysteries. Release a great Death Company kit, but then make them worse than the PDF codex, and cost more points. Shouldn't really look at it like that. If you want to be really bummed, go take a look at 3rd edition blood angels. Free power weapons/power fists. Frankly, I think the change to not take death company and have the other units be horrifyingly expensive is a good thing. I enjoy the flexibility. Just a little sad that jump pack DC are...an interesting...choice to make. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2944186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomentoMori Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 To be realistic with raging jump pack DC I have to be genuinely worried about any opponents deathstar units. That's why I requested the math hammer. The army is for fun but I do plan on entering local tournaments with it from time to time mainly because I don't know any of the local Baltimore player base to schedual regular games. I am very lucky though. I own 3 mostly painted 2500 plus point armys. 3k sisters of battle and deathguard. 2500 in fleash tearers. Thus jump packs DC leading the charge with 3 stormravens full of dreads and marines. As "interesting" as the choice is. Its one I've always wanted to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2944574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 JUST DO IT AND DO IT WITH THE FURY OF THE ANGEL!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243440-need-some-death-company-math-hammer-for-this-unit/#findComment-2944577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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