Do you think TWC will live past the 6th Edition?

[Olgerth Istaarn]

It is hard to argue that TWC, for all their cool factor, are just about the most ridiculous unit introduced into the recent 40K codices. Not counting the "xeno mounts" from the older editions and RT, there hasn't been anything quite as out of the left field as marines on GIANT FRIKIN WOLVES. Even the cringe-worthy Sanguinor and Ghost Knights don't quite measure up.

 

What makes it perhaps worse is the fact that they are one of the best units in the codex, and are universally hated by other codices' players because they are, well, powerful (read: cheese), and did I mention it's marines on GIANT FRIKIN WOLVES.

 

The universal sentiment in the groups where I play seems to be that the TWC are riding into the sunset, about to be toned down into uselessness or excised entirely after the advent of the 6th. What is your gut feel? Will the GIANT FRIKIN WOLVES survive past the current ed?

[eyeslikethunder]

If the rumoured 24" move or charge(no roll for fleet) for cavalry is true in 6th they could make a big come back as they would be fast and highly mobile even on turns when they dont charge which they lack at the moment. This would be a big bonus for SW codex which in general lacks mobility.

[Nrthstar]

I assume this is coming from someone who uses csm as his/her dex. Compared to that, yeah, it's a pretty awesome unit, but to come into the fang and call it cheese? Not even close.

 

Rules wise they really aren't that amazing. If I throw them at any of the major cc powerhouses, my odds of coming out are only 50/50 and that's because I'm running around with at least two storm shields. One mob of bloodletters or grey knights and their butts are on the ground. Genestealers are an issue too. I don't think it's so much an issue that twolves are so amazing, but that 1: your group doesn't know how to handle them and 2: the csm is a little bland and lacks an equivalent exciting option.

 

Now for the fluffy ridiculousness, well when I first pickes up the codex and 40k in general, I thought it was absolutely nonsensical. But then I read more and more of 40k fluff, and playing as a wolf it's easy to see them on the field and suspend my disbelief. Heck as a sw player now I see it as iconic of the wolves even, especially since I grew up raising two huskies.

 

As for 6th, that all depends on what rumors you believe. If they do switch the order to move, assault, shoot, I can see twolves actually being just as strong as ever, since I think it'll only help our twolves get into combat faster, and not have to worry about heavy assault shots coming in before being charged. Coming in here to vent your rage, and have a bit of catharsis.... well whatever floats your stormraven.

[Spacefrisian]

We are playing a "sci fi/ fantasy"wargame, and peeps start nitpicking about how unrealistic big men on wolves are?

[JamesI]

We are playing a "sci fi/ fantasy"wargame, and peeps start nitpicking about how unrealistic big men on wolves are?

Very true.

 

I could see 6th edition changing some stuff for cavalry, but I can't see GW dropping the Thunder Wolves entirely. No good reason to do that.

[Wulf Vengis]

I dont honestly see the TWC making it into the NEXT Wolves dex no, but as far as being FAQd out of the current dex during 6th ed, no. I dont see that as even remotely possible. Maybe Canis will stay going into the future SW dex but I dont think the TWC will make that cut if and when those cuts are approached.

[dswanick]

Give me back my Leman Russ, and you can keep your Goblin Wolf-rides...

:tu:

[Wulf Vengis]

I do miss my Leman Russ Exterminators. As it is Ive got two that are proxying as Preds and will continue to do so until further notice even though Ive got one actual Pred (it however is not yet built).

[dragon950]

GW has pretty much droped them already because of not having any models for them, it almost feels that they didn't have very much hope for the codex because the lack of redone models. As far as the unit goes, it has great stats but has a gaint target painted on them because of how expensive they can be.

[skoll]

they can take the TWC out if they give us wulfen, I5 S5? why yes plis

[Nrthstar]

GW has pretty much droped them already because of not having any models for them, but the nids also got screwed on that end too. As far as the unit goes, it has great stats but has a gaint target painted on them because of how expensive they can be.

 

The misconception here is that gw is willingly withholding these models, but it ended up being that gw beat themselves at their own game. Nids and twolves concepts were created by gw, and since they had such a slow and staggered release planned for them, other companies, like Chapterhouse, stepped up and made their own. Then of course, gw went into litigation against them. Well, in the process gw discovered that it is possible for the copyright of a model to exist not in the original concept, but in the original model. So basically Gw is now scared to put out the remaining nids and thunderwolves because in reality, they could possible be sued by a company like chapterhouse.

 

The irony is amazing right? So the model hasn't been released yet not because gw plans to banish the wolf riders, but because they shot themselves in the foot.

 

I hope they keep tw's with the next dex, it's a unit I can really side with.

[fivepointedstar]

I'm not sure what GW has in mind about TWC for rules in 6th ed. But if they don't start releasing a desent TWC model (other than Canis one) there possible TWC miniature income is getting out sourced to the likes of mythicast, Mr. Dandy, etc.. Maybe GW/ Citadel shouldn't reap what you can't sew, and make rules for models that are enroute to be released, or exsisting.

[breng77]

Though arguably due to them not owning the model rights will cause them to remove/nerf the squad into oblivion in a new dex.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Nrthstar, where did you get that info because your breaking my heart brother??!!

 

I hope the wolf riders do survive as they are a fluffy, yet powerful new addition to my new army lists.

 

And isn't 6th ed. a ways out anyhow, all this is still speculation, right?? Like I speculate having to buy non-GW TMC models...

 

End of Line

[Ghent]

I've been searching for something to proxy for them. I almost feel like they should just turn them into the Biker unit for Space Wolves?

[hendrik]

for my own reasons i dislike the use of thunderwolves, however i don't see them deleting them from the dex since if they ever make a GW model for it they'll be selling like hot beans if they don't look as bad as canis. not to mention it's a "fresh" unit. think of it what unit has GW deleted from any dex so far (that didn't get replaced by a likewise suitable unit for which you could use the models). i can't think of any

[Ghent]

How many have been replaced that didn't actually have a model, though?

[fivepointedstar]

for my own reasons i dislike the use of thunderwolves, however i don't see them deleting them from the dex since if they ever make a GW model for it they'll be selling like hot beans if they don't look as bad as canis. not to mention it's a "fresh" unit. think of it what unit has GW deleted from any dex so far (that didn't get replaced by a likewise suitable unit for which you could use the models). i can't think of any

SW Leman Russ Exterminator**, (SM Chaplin Xavier, SM IH Iron Fathers, SM CF Captian Coteaz*)

 

* can be counted as something else but they took out the rules, and the models still exist.

 

** Still understand that Leman Russ's are for IG, but why take something that was an option in last dex, and now say, "too bad" in the next. well thats not cool! Now that I have 2 Leman Russ exterminators collecting dust, and no interest to ever start a IG army.

[hendrik]

as you said it yourself the exterminator is still a usable model. the only reason i see why GW would possibly not include thunderwolves is to prevent the other companies who have made models for them to gain any new money. besides that i don't see any reasons

[Wulf Vengis]

As painful as it is to say this, I cant take my TWC out of the box when I play unless its at home or a friends house. Every person whos seen me pull them out has cried cheese and beardy and broken etc. To the extent that I was told by judges at 2 different tourneys and 2 different stores that I couldnt play the unit. Which left my list lacking in points and me with no way to make it up. Only to be further told by the judges that its a friendly tourney and if the other players dont want my overpowered unit on the tables I cant play it.

On one "special" occasion I was "kindly informed" (read: demanded) by the judges that I should buy a unit of anything else off the wall and glue it together for the tourney and take the hit on my paint score. I promptly asked for my entry fee back as I wouldnt be participating in their little game favoritism, their response was a "theres nothing we can do for you in that regard" and a "maybe next time youll bring a fair play list". I immediately cancelled any orders I had through that store and asked for THAT money back and got told "all sales are final even orders that wont be placed until the end of the month". I havent been back to that store since, not even to pick up my Drop Pods and Razorback (which mind you I paid full GW price + tax etc for).

Both of those tourneys were packed with nothing but BA and GK WAAC lists, the same players fielding the same lists Id seen there for something like 6 months straight. The only difference was that each week the lists seemed to pass from one player to the next. Oh sure the paint was different but the list for player A was identical in week 1 as the list for player B during week 2. Literally just swapping armies but each of these players built the exact same list as a previous player (absolutely no changes), yet every week I showed up with something entirely different from my wolves. Never repeating itself or its tactics.

I never once cried foul about their non-friendly WAAC lists or the shear lack of individuality between the players at those tourneys. I just grit my fangs and played my games. I never did better than 4th place (usually out of between 8 and 12). Im sorry to say it but GW most likely will axe the TWC simply because everyone seems to think theyre over powered or broken or whatever.

Now as far as all this goes I dont like tourney play anyways. It ruins the game. The game should be fun (ITS IN THE RULE BOOK) but only a few of the people Ive played with over ther last 12 years seem to get that part. Theyre too buisy building the same overpowered lists as everyone else sitting in the game hall. All this WAAC has made the game stagnant and I fear well see a lot of good things (not just TWC) go the way of the 2nd and 11th legions if it goes on much longer.

 

EDIT: The unit people were calling cheese over were 2 (count them TWO) TWC one with Hammer & Shield second with shield. With a Thunder Lord attached (wolf claw & shield, Bear saga, Tails, Teeth).

[Nrthstar]

It really makes me die a little inside that any "tourney" player or judge would cry foul on thunderwolves. How are they any more broken than a lot of the other units out there. And grey knight players complaining about thunderwolves?? Are you serious?? Between their many strength 5 shots and force weapons capable of one shotting our wolves, what in the world do they have to complain about?

 

And blood angels?? Furious charge can give them the higher initiative to cause some serious wounds before the wolves can swing back, and their large bases make them very easy to shoot. Honestly, around here our players are very competitive, but fun loving. So at first they gritted their teeth and just took the beating from twolves until they learned how to handle them. Now it's just part of the game and no big deal. If an organizer was that big of a ::explative deleted:: to me I'd bring ot right back at them and challenge their ability to even play the game.

 

My twolves go out, earn their points back and a little but they always die in the end, because my friends are not morons.

[Nrthstar]

Nrthstar, where did you get that info because your breaking my heart brother??!!

 

I hope the wolf riders do survive as they are a fluffy, yet powerful new addition to my new army lists.

 

And isn't 6th ed. a ways out anyhow, all this is still speculation, right?? Like I speculate having to buy non-GW TMC models...

 

End of Line

 

I'm digging for the article now, if I could remember a keyword or two I could find it with google, but everything I've tried hasn't helped.

 

Edit: found it! http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=17743

[breng77]

stories like the one above make me happy about where I choose to play my tournaments (and pickup games). I have never had anyone refuse to play a game based on an army list. I can say from stories like that, that it seems to me that store owners running tournaments is often a bad thing because it seems some of them are too concerned with making customers happy than in running a good tournament. EIther that or peoples buddies should not run tournaments if they cannot stand up to their firends.

 

IMO players like that probably never leave there comfy little store environment, because if they did they would want to face units like TWC that way they would know what to do (or not do) when they see one in a bigger event.

[fivepointedstar]

As a mostly BA player I too feel there are pluses, and minus' to all dexes. As gamers shouldn't hat be the fun to play it out to find them, rather that go online (3++, etc..) to build the most over powered team. I play against my friends that have gone to tournies, and play super competitive lists, but even thou I have not yet won ( fingers crossed*) with a TWC list it was fun to rush forward to see what the dice roll.

[frostclaw222]

Call me a little crazy, but I'd hope that if GW wasn't going to release Thunderwolf Cavalry models, they'd tell the customer base.

 

There are plenty of other SW figs they could release. A Ragnar and Ulrik that were done somewhat recently, maybe. I'm not asking for Wolf Scouts and Long Fangs--I can make those just fine, and probably better with a little conversion work than GW could mass produce--and I'm really not asking for much. But if TWC are going the way of the dinosaurs, then I'd appreciate a heads up. I've held off buying the off-brand models in the hopes of staying tournament legal (not like I play any at this point, but I may in the future), but if there's never going to be models, at least have the intestinal fortitude to admit it to the customer base.

 

Even if they win their suit against Chapterhouse (and I'm not taking sides here), that doesn't cover possible suits from the other off-brand TWC makers. So, if they're holding off until they're no longer open to litigation, we may see Thunderwolves right after the next full-monty SOB dex, and not a moment before. And to be kept hanging with no official word from GW? That's just silly. At least somebody in the company could say, "Hey, here's the issue." Or give us a second release of everything but the Thunderwolves and ominously say "that concludes all Space Wolves releases for this edition," and thereby give us the wink and nod that we're never going to see them. This is tantamount to them asking us to buy from other mini providers at this point. /rant