Do you think TWC will live past the 6th Edition?

[eyeslikethunder]

if they were going to release thunderwolves they would have done it by now. As for this case a another company suing them . Well first that company would have have a product called thunderwolves already out there. no has stepped over that line not even chapterhouse. its all stormwolves or lightning wolves. CH did it with their eldar and nids stuff though. if anything GW should speed up to prevent these gaps. As we wolves you got to mark your territory

[Veteran Sergeant]

We are playing a "sci fi/ fantasy"wargame, and peeps start nitpicking about how unrealistic big men on wolves are?

Gotta draw the line somewhere, lol.

[Travic]

When is the 6th edition suppose to come out?

 

p.s - Must buy TWC *drool*

[Valerian]

When is the 6th edition supposed to come out?

 

July 14th, 2012.

 

Valerian

[Nrthstar]

Ogre kingdoms was launched woth fast release in mind because of this, so we will definitely see all units rapid fired out the door from now on.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

When is the 6th edition supposed to come out?

 

July 14th, 2012.

 

Valerian

 

Not that I'm disagreeing, but when and where did GW say this? :blush:

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make it December 2012, just in time for the end of the world. :D

[Torin]

Whatever GW does they better not remove the TWC from the dex. They put it in, in the first place. Lot of people went through the trouble making these model while wait for GW to release their model. The Leman Russ Exterminator was remove... fine you can sell it to an IG player.. they remove the TWC.. throw your model in the dustbin... :D .

 

I dont see why people complaining about the TWC.... they should be complaining about all those str 8 AC from them GK.

[Valerian]

When is the 6th edition supposed to come out?

 

July 14th, 2012.

 

Valerian

 

Not that I'm disagreeing, but when and where did GW say this? :)

 

As I'm sure you already know, GW itself has not and would not say anything in an official release this far out. Anyone that pays attention to the many reliable rumor-mongers out there, however, has narrowed it down to 14 July.

 

Best,

 

V

[Forté]

Good to see tourney organizers making up their own rules as they see fit. Take it they didn't state that a 'Codex' unit would not be aloud to be used. And as for cheese.....GK and BA players have no right to cry cheese.

 

Personally Id be more worried about seeing lots of GH on the table. Range, close combat and being a troop. And at a very good price too.

 

 

GW shouldn't have much of a reason to completely remove TW from a future codex and would come under so much pressure from players anyway if they did.

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

Whatever GW does they better not remove the TWC from the dex. They put it in, in the first place. Lot of people went through the trouble making these model while wait for GW to release their model.

 

I can't see them removing a unit they only just added to the codex, for which they have not made a model (hence not made a whole lot of money off with the exception of perhaps some people buying several of the cannis models to make up a squad but otherwise going to other vendors to buy substitutes) and which was nowhere near the most complained about unit for Wolves. That prize goes hands-down to long fangs, wolf priests and grey hunters to a lesser extent.

[JamesI]

As painful as it is to say this, I cant take my TWC out of the box when I play unless its at home or a friends house. Every person whos seen me pull them out has cried cheese and beardy and broken etc. To the extent that I was told by judges at 2 different tourneys and 2 different stores that I couldnt play the unit. Which left my list lacking in points and me with no way to make it up. Only to be further told by the judges that its a friendly tourney and if the other players dont want my overpowered unit on the tables I cant play it.

On one "special" occasion I was "kindly informed" (read: demanded) by the judges that I should buy a unit of anything else off the wall and glue it together for the tourney and take the hit on my paint score. I promptly asked for my entry fee back as I wouldnt be participating in their little game favoritism, their response was a "theres nothing we can do for you in that regard" and a "maybe next time youll bring a fair play list". I immediately cancelled any orders I had through that store and asked for THAT money back and got told "all sales are final even orders that wont be placed until the end of the month". I havent been back to that store since, not even to pick up my Drop Pods and Razorback (which mind you I paid full GW price + tax etc for).

Both of those tourneys were packed with nothing but BA and GK WAAC lists, the same players fielding the same lists Id seen there for something like 6 months straight. The only difference was that each week the lists seemed to pass from one player to the next. Oh sure the paint was different but the list for player A was identical in week 1 as the list for player B during week 2. Literally just swapping armies but each of these players built the exact same list as a previous player (absolutely no changes), yet every week I showed up with something entirely different from my wolves. Never repeating itself or its tactics.

I never once cried foul about their non-friendly WAAC lists or the shear lack of individuality between the players at those tourneys. I just grit my fangs and played my games. I never did better than 4th place (usually out of between 8 and 12). Im sorry to say it but GW most likely will axe the TWC simply because everyone seems to think theyre over powered or broken or whatever.

Now as far as all this goes I dont like tourney play anyways. It ruins the game. The game should be fun (ITS IN THE RULE BOOK) but only a few of the people Ive played with over ther last 12 years seem to get that part. Theyre too buisy building the same overpowered lists as everyone else sitting in the game hall. All this WAAC has made the game stagnant and I fear well see a lot of good things (not just TWC) go the way of the 2nd and 11th legions if it goes on much longer.

EDIT: The unit people were calling cheese over were 2 (count them TWO) TWC one with Hammer & Shield second with shield. With a Thunder Lord attached (wolf claw & shield, Bear saga, Tails, Teeth).

That is absolutely ridiculous. As an outsider to the Space Wolves, the TWC are a good unit but not broken as to demand being banned from tournament play any more than Nob bikers or Mephiston or Paladins.

 

I will admit to getting absolutely smashed in my only tournament game against TWC, but well I got outplayed and defeated. It happens.

[Wysten]

If you got recepts, you can claim your money back, and if they refuse, then you can sue their arses off for unethical treatment. They HAVE to give the money back if you are not satisified with their services.

 

 

Thunderwolf depends what comes out. To be honest, this format sounds like there will be less mech in it, depending what what they do. If thats the case, Thunderwolf will be fantastic.

 

Otherwise, they are a solid unit, not even that powerful and to be honest, they are not a rock unit as they are not duriable enough, but a hard enough unit to do some real damage with Grey Hunter support.

[breng77]

If you got recepts, you can claim your money back, and if they refuse, then you can sue their arses off for unethical treatment. They HAVE to give the money back if you are not satisified with their services.

 

This is not at all true. Most stores have policies like this, but store owners are within their rights to have a no returns policy. There is no law that states that you are entitled to a refund if you are not satisfied with services provided. Most places do this because keeping customers happy is just good buisness. Furthermore while you can probably attempt to sue for unethical treatment, it would be difficult to win/prove anything, and probably cost more than whatever you would get out of it. In cases like this it is usually best to just cut your losses, and stop going to said store.

[Nrthstar]

If you got recepts, you can claim your money back, and if they refuse, then you can sue their arses off for unethical treatment. They HAVE to give the money back if you are not satisified with their services.

 

This is not at all true. Most stores have policies like this, but store owners are within their rights to have a no returns policy. There is no law that states that you are entitled to a refund if you are not satisfied with services provided. Most places do this because keeping customers happy is just good buisness. Furthermore while you can probably attempt to sue for unethical treatment, it would be difficult to win/prove anything, and probably cost more than whatever you would get out of it. In cases like this it is usually best to just cut your losses, and stop going to said store.

 

Valid points, buuuuut let's get back on topic. This is starting to remind of my job in here.

[frostclaw222]

Gotta agree with breng77: unless you can prove that other customers were not treated the same way vis-a-vis the no-return policy, and they were in fact just giving you the shaft to further inflame you after telling you your codex unit was not allowed in the tournament, then they can say their no-returns policy is how they do business.

 

You're not outside your rights as a consumer to report your dissatisfaction to a consumer protection agency, nor are you forbidden to discuss, in detail, the FACTUAL events that caused your dissatisfaction, in aching detail, even publicly. I'm not sure what B&C policy on such things is, so I wouldn't do it here without checking (ducks the melta beam), but there's nothing to say you can't let other potential customers know how you were mistreated on some other networking site or forum that does permit it. You've been very polite and not called them out by name, address, etc. That's taking the high road, and you should be proud of that. But they did single you out for discrimination. Sure, it wasn't based on the color of your skin, how old you were, your gender or orientation or religious or political beliefs, but they singled you out all the same. And, judging by what everyone above has said about GK, BA, Nob Bikers, and the like, TWC aren't hideously OTT/OP. A polite person (gentleman/lady) would let it go at that. However, things like this rarely get changed by polite people, and you sound extremely dissatisfied. I'm not suggesting you start an "Occupy not-so-FLGS" movement or anything, but this isn't likely to get fixed until somebody stands up. And in my experience, there aren't a lot of stores to play in, and most people don't have the wherewithal to have a decent space dedicated to wargaming at home, so they're in a large way inhibiting your having a good time with fellow gamers.

 

By no means am I encouraging you to agitate. But I am pointing to the fact that you've been very professional and respectful here whereas the store has not been the same to you. That alone should be a feather in your cap and make you feel better in the morning. I'm just saying that stuff like this happens more often than we'd like to think, and the next time you're in a brick-and-mortar shop and you see someone telling a player that his legal army list is 80% cheddar, pay it forward and back the player. Yeah, it might be a netlist he got of BOLS or something. But the kid might be new to the game and just trying to follow in other's footsteps until he finds his own techniques and tactics. This community is small enough without petty discrimination based on GW putting out a lopsided codex now and again.

[Nrthstar]

This is thread doomed to be closed unless we get back on topic.

[Wysten]

Indeed, I only mentioned it as a passing comment, and I was indeed proved wrong. It seems you don't need Ale to get a Wolf drunk! XD

 

 

But yeah, I like Thunder Wolf and I hope they stay, as even if you could give them all power weapons and sheilds, they still woundn't really be broken. Because they will still die if they are the subject of gigantic firepower. Heheh

 

Plus, I believe the gigantic wolves offers something that really is completely out there for most codexes. Afterall, it broke the tradition of being character sized and T4 in one go without being a special character, and it has a fantastic assualt range. As they stand, Thunder Wolves are a fantastic support unit that will give you back what you put in. A 130 point distraction with a few pairs with strength 10 hammers. Unspeakably epic without blowing the bank. Might not be any Grey Knight Paladin, but by god, after a few rounds of heavy firepower with a storm sheild or an additional thunderwolf for 180, any units going to flinch at the strength 10 hammer blows that will bring down multiples of the mult wound terminators, and leave a lasting dent on anything else.

[Max_Dammit]

outliving 6th??

 

We'll be playing this dex in 7th :)

[frostclaw222]

Getting back on topic....I actually have a friend who works for GW Corporate, and try as I have to get him to discuss the issue with me, he's gone mum every single time. He's not in the modeling side of things, and is more an uber-blackshirt, but there've been a few times where he said something nebulous in advance, and every time it came to pass.

 

What I'm getting to (aside from the topic at hand :) ) is that, assuming the litigation hypothesis for the Great Thunderwolf Hold-Up is true, GW Legal will either have to sue all these guys at once and not release TWC until all suits are satisfactorily settled or adjudicated, or they'll be forced to retire the TWC without ever releasing a model. Which would mean, yes: no TWC in a 6E SW dex is a possibility, even a probability.

 

There are upsides to this: the accelerated release schedules for other lines since then being a big one. I don't think TWC are that overpowered, though, so that's not the reason they're not getting released. Nob Bikers, several GK squads, hell, even some BA units all smack of sharper cheddar (no offense intended, guys). Now, if 6E were to give the TWC a bump in mobility, then I can see renewed accusations of fromage, as I think one of the best ways to counter TWC in the present day is to stand off with long guns and not tangle with them until you have to. This would shorten that ranged engagement window significantly, if the rumors are even mostly true on cavalry movement and turn sequence changes.

 

Will it make TWC too uber that they might go from cheddar to too gouda? I don't think so, but it would definitely give them a leg up on some other units that are presently rated a little more beardy than they are.

 

Apologies for the overflow of cheese puns. I flew from DC to Guam on Monday, and am still jetlagged to the warp and back. Btw, Nrthstar, that's some nice artwork on that banner in your sig.

[Seahawk]

I can't see them removing a unit they only just added to the codex, for which they have not made a model

Hmm, Various IG characters/units, SM Tyranid Hunters and other characters, Ork characters, Kroot mercs, Lost and the Damned, and so on...

 

GW will introduce a new unit in one codex and take it away in the next. It's nothing new to us veteran players :D

[Quillen]

I have to aggree with Max we will be playing this Dex forever. Just like the 3rd edition one. Which we were playing in 5th edition.

 

As to them being broke. No they are tough but not broke.

 

As to being unrealistic? Well I thought so at first but it makes alot of sence in a way.

 

Wolves are quiet. Can feed themselves. Can go places vehicles can not. And if one breaks, given time and some good medical help it can heal it's self. Rhinos can not regrow tracks. But a wolf could heal a broken leg.

 

For a sneaky Wolf Lord these things would be awesome. Able to move fast and quiet where they are needed most and able to track down survivers of an ambush.

 

So I went from "How stupid!" to "Cool idea really!"

[eyeslikethunder]

I dont expect a new codex any time soon

 

coming is BT, Tau, Chaos:legions, C:SM DA, ELDAR, Orks and Chaos:renegades at the current rate of 2 a year thats at least 4 years. There is a lot to get through before we get our turn again.

 

Normally you get a few years warning on codex releases as development takes time. I remember the rumours going on for years before our codex was released

[Nrthstar]

Apologies for the overflow of cheese puns. I flew from DC to Guam on Monday, and am still jetlagged to the warp and back. Btw, Nrthstar, that's some nice artwork on that banner in your sig.

 

Credit goes to Mav, not sure but I think he draws the art for them.

[Tamwulf]

It was with a lot of excitement and anticipation that I read the latest Space Wolves Codex. Then I got to the Thunderwolves. :blink: The unit is absurd. I use to think 10' tall, genetically altered humans in power armor riding motorcycles into combat was bad. But this...! :down: It made me cry inside.

 

The rules for them are undeniably great, and put them in the "One of the Best Units in 40K" category. With the way they can be equipped and assigning rules for wounds... yeah, they are monsters to deal with (que the inevitable "I beat them in CC with my Imperial Guardsmen!" quote...).

 

I wasn't sold on the idea or fluff, and would have much rather kept Wulfen as some kinda of Death Company for Space Wolves. Unfortunitly, all the Blood Angel players would cry about the unfairness, and Space Wolf Players would have to deal with that. I'd rather have been able to keep my Leman Russ Exterminator- but the Land Raider Redeemer is nice. For all the things we lost in the 5th Ed Codex, what we gained more than made up for it.

 

The conscious decision to field a unit of these guys sneaked up on me. I pretty much wrote these guys off as six months went by and GW hadn't released a model, previewed a model, or said anything at all about a model. We had Cannis, but I wasn't gonna spend over US$300 and convert five Cannis models. I looked around a bit, but never found a good "Counts As" or fitting model to use on the table. And then one day, I stumbled across a post here on B&C about an Ebay auction from a guy named Juan in the Philippines. Pictures where good, the price was right (like US$50 for five?), shipping was a bit expensive, and the whole thing looked kinda dodgy, but I said why not? I bid, won the auction, and waited. And waited. E-mails were traded, ignored, assurances given, eventually, after almost six months, five resin cast Thunderwolves arrived in my mailbox. I've fielded them in every game with my Space Wolves since (all three of them. :lol: I play BA now).

 

Will the Thunderwolf Cavalry make it into the 6th Edition Codex? I highly doubt it. I bet we'll see a return of the "13th Company" and Wulfen. They will probably take away almost all the equipment options, but basically make them Lupine Space Marines that move like Beasts, have Rage, Rending, and maybe an increased Toughness. Basically, Thunderwolves without the Thunder. The best part? GW already has the models for them.