Paladins vs Purifiers

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have stop taking the Quickening after finally realizing I have never cast it once nor ever needed to either. Sanctuary, Shrouding and Might of Titans are the big three in my opinion. Quickening is really good but I've found I'd always rather use other powers.

 

G :cuss

[Brother Valerius]

Personally, if one is taking a libby and has a non-zero chance of facing daemons, I consider it worth taking dark excommunication. Those 5 points may be wasted against anyone else, but it's only 5 points... and against daemons, they'll be 5 points very well spent.

[breng77]

Well I personally tend to bring a Librarian with Quickening and between 7-9 Purifiers with Falchions (the others could be a mix of Incinerators/Psycannons/NDH's). So you're talking about a lot of I10 PW attacks, and that's not even counting Cleansing Flame. It may not be the best out there but I consider that a dedicated assault unit, especially by GK standards.

 

well yes assuming you get the charge against another dedicated assault unit, you will do just fine. But that unit is upwards of 450 points. I'm not saying that it is bad just very expensive for a fragile unit.

[nurglez]

Well, considering that to take Draigo wing means taking Draigo (no duh), he is a good force multiplier, and increases the survival of paladins at range vs instant death shots (dark lances on raiders, lone multi meltas etc).

 

I love using paladins in assault, few things can stand up to them, the main threat is hidden powerfists, but you either take those on draigo if you manage to get him into base contact with the fist, or on any wounded paladins.

 

I haven't fought against any th/ss Termies yet, so don't know how well they would cope vs them...

[AnImA8]

well yes assuming you get the charge against another dedicated assault unit, you will do just fine. But that unit is upwards of 450 points. I'm not saying that it is bad just very expensive for a fragile unit.

 

The 450 pts statement would be true of pretty much any GK unit that the Libby joins, and since I'd be attaching him to a squad anyway that doesn't really concern me. As for being fragile, most of the WS5 dedicated assault units that I know of have 5+ to 4+ saves anyhow, often with T3.

 

And again the whole idea behind the Purifiers in combat is that between Cleansing Flame and all of the Initiative buffing, they should be able to put on enough wounds to mitigate return attacks fairly well.

 

@Nurglez: I would do all in my power to avoid confrontation of Paladins with TH/SS Terminators. Thats one matchup where even if you "win" the casualties taken make it just simply not worth it...

 

-AnImA8

[nurglez]

Well I assume that I would try and get a round of shooting at them first, and if possible I would throw Draigo at them, or use him to speed bump them. If it did get to combat, I'd hope my high I and ws 5 would save me :tu:

 

I haven't met an armour 14 vehicle that I can't destroy with massed psycannon's, or a great sword equipped dk :P

[breng77]

The 450 pts statement would be true of pretty much any GK unit that the Libby joins, and since I'd be attaching him to a squad anyway that doesn't really concern me. As for being fragile, most of the WS5 dedicated assault units that I know of have 5+ to 4+ saves anyhow, often with T3.

 

And again the whole idea behind the Purifiers in combat is that between Cleansing Flame and all of the Initiative buffing, they should be able to put on enough wounds to mitigate return attacks fairly well.

 

The problem for that is 3 fold.

 

1.) You only have buffed Initiative during your turn (as quicksilver does not work on the opponents turn.), so getting charged by Furious charge units will hurt quite a bit, (assuming that they have grenades if you are running sanctuary). IN addition should the Libby die, no more high I for you.

 

2.) Your alpha strike in combat relys on psychic powers (which can fail or be shut down), and cleansing flame is really not very helpful against MEQ assault units.

 

3.)It is not just the return attacks you need to worry about, it is also the shooting from your opponent if you wipe him out. Many armies have lots of firepower that will cut down Purifiers after they wipe out a unit.

 

THe unit is not unusable, but you are looking at upward of 300 points for 10 purifiers with that equipment.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Versus assault terminators here are my tactics with my Draigo|Librarian|Paladin unit:

 

1) Typically most players take a squad of five which is fairly easy to handle.

2) If the assault terminators are able to launch an assault then cast Sanctuary... It might stop the charge and the opponent might lose a terminator to dangerous terrain.

3) Shoot everything at them then charge them if possible. I have a couple swords for the 4++, one Paladin has a warding stave (2++) and the Librarian has a master crafted warding stave... That should soak up a good number of wounds so optimally if the assault terminators do get to swing I might two Paladins lose at most.

4) You're going to swing first and that should thin their number. Master crafting the Librarian's warding stave really helps. I have a Brotherhood banner for the +1 attack. Cast Hammerhand twice or Hammerhand and Might of Titans so everybody is wounding on 2+. Finally I have three daemonhammers so that should finish off the assault terminators if they do manage to swing back. You really want to finish them off ASAP.

 

The stormshield can really be very annoying—it's not always possible to kill all the assault terminators before they get to swing back so you want to reduce their number of attacks as much as possible. They are are a threat but can be managed.

 

G :)

[Freman Bloodglaive]

A five man Purifier squad with hammer, two halberds and two psycannon in a assault cannon razorback with psybolts costs 234 points, giving 29.25 points per shot on the move and 19.5 points per shot when standing still.

 

Obviously that's having the Razorback drive alongside the Purifiers as a mobile gun rather than having it act as a full-time transport but Purifiers are one of those units that work better outside their transport, something that could be said of Grey Knight units in general.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Neither unit is better than the other, they do different things for your army.

 

Purifiers excel at mid-field fire support and counter-assault. In other words, defending your Strike Knights from enemy assault units intent on eating them in combat. Because you only wear power armour, hugging cover is essential, and being in 'Sanctuary'/'Shrouding' range from a nearby Librarian helps a lot (lets you get the charge, making up for your WS4 and Tactical Marine survivability etc). Unlike Strike Knights, who largely don't care about transportation (they can Deepstrike into position), Purifiers desperately need transportation, as they're slow without it but can't tank damage like Terminator blobs or Paladin combat squads. Rhino is an excellent choice, especially if you're Outflanking (as it can get them into position even if they end up on the wrong flank).

 

Paladins serve two functions. In smaller games (1.5k or less), they are easier to fit in as a double psycannon combat squad to bodyguard your Librarian, than the usual alternative of a Terminator blob. And of course, in Draigowing, they are the entire army lol.

In 2k or larger games, I honestly feel Terminator blob is a better choice. Scoring by default, tanks damage better (especially considering most AP2 is also S8 anyway), easier to wrap multiple units, and more point efficient. Plus you can easily bring two, as Troops is almost never full with Knight armies (again, only at 2k or higher). Nothing in the game usually survives even a combat squad of Paladins, so taking the full 10-man Deathstar is a massive overinvestment unless you have Draigo. Just as a comparison to illustrate what I mean;

 

2 x Paladins w/halberd+psycannon, Paladin w/hammer, 2 x Paladins w/halberds

(315 points)

Cheaper than

Justicar w/halberd, Terminator w/Bro Banner, 2 x Terminators w/hammers,

2 x Terminators w/halberd+psycannon, 4 x Terminators w/halberds

(475 points)

Cheaper than

Paladin w/Bro Banner, 2 x Paladins w/hammers, 4 x Paladins w/halberd+psycannon,

3 x Paladins w/halberd

(655 points)

And of course adding Apothecary bumps the above monster to 730 points

 

Just for some final weighing up;

 

Flame Knight w/halberd, Purifier w/hammer, 4 x Purifiers w/psycannons, 4 x Purifiers w/halberds, Rhino

(330 points)

 

So, for only 15pts more than the Paladin combat squad, you can get these guys mechanised and cannoned up.

 

Something to note, I wouldn't be combat squadding Purifiers into Razorbacks, or even Rhinos. 5 Marines is very easy to kill off, and whilst double-casting 'Cleansing Flame' is amusing, it's not always neccessary (if something lives through both your I6 force weapons and 'Flame', you've picked your combat badly). Combat squads is something only Paladins can do really, everyone else is either too squishy (Purifiers, Strikers, Interceptors) or doesn't output enough damage (Terminators).