Anti-Grey Knight Armies

[Aidoneus]

IG outgun us at every point level, and outnumber (even with melta-Vet spam). You have to close to close-combat and hit them with templates/Purifiers/stuff they can't kill (Dreadknights and anything in TDA autowins combat against even Straken). An all-Deepstrike or Outflanking (thanks to TGS) type army is your best bet. If you get into a shootout, they'll drown you.

Not necessarily true. The key to outgunning IG is to create areas of local superiority, limiting how many guns they can bring to bear on you at one time. Just the other day I beat an IG army in annihilation by deep-striking everything on one flank and using my 24" range to gun him down while keeping out of range of his vets or massed lasgun fire from the blob squad. There were only 2 combats the whole game: Marbo killed my Vindicare, and 5 interceptors killed the last 3 members of a vet squad. Remember, most of his tanks are AV10 on the side and only 12 on the front, so our psycannons (and even psybolt bolters) are excellent at ripping them open. And as long as you're more than 18" away from a vet squad, his infantry aren't a big threat to you.

 

In terms of what scares GKs, it really depends on the GK build. I run a very shooty list, so nasty close-combat units scare, particularly when they're fast (thunderwolves being a prime example). However, a lot of purifier and paladin builds focus on CC, so they would handle such enemy units with relative ease. On the flip side, many GK builds (particularly paladins) struggle vs dark eldar, whereas my deep-strike tactics and 24" range make shooting down his vehicles and mopping up his infantry a piece of cake. Since there is no one standard GK build, it doesn't really make sense to ask what one opponent gives us trouble.

[ultramarine001]

It may be just the players I've faced, but I have never had a problem ripping up GK with my DE. The obscene mobility of a Raider heavy army is pure win.

[breng77]

That depends on army match up, some GK armies blow all the raiders out of the sky in 2-3 turns and then it is game over DE.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Well, I play Coteaz, 5 rifle dreads, 5 psybolt razorbacks and a redeemer with death cultists and a grenade battery. I wil play the shooting game with anyone but Tau.

 

You actually outgun Tau at that point level, just saying.

As I said, Coteaz changes things with his insanely cheap Troops, but in a normal Knight list, PsyDread spam is not an option.

 

Not necessarily true. The key to outgunning IG is to create areas of local superiority, limiting how many guns they can bring to bear on you at one time.

 

Against infantry-heavy IG maybe, and as you say in your game, you outranged the blob and cut away its support units. Mech IG outrange you by a good 12" with their basic anti-infantry fire, even further with the battle cannons and lascannon. Refusing flank and engaging one part of his army is a good tactic, but in my experience Guard are shooting you every turn they're not in combat, regardless of where you deploy. Local superiority doesn't matter a whole lot, because he can flood the board with units, and unless he deploys quite badly, he can feed you chaff (almost everything in his army falls under that banner, expendable).

 

Remember, most of his tanks are AV10 on the side and only 12 on the front, so our psycannons (and even psybolt bolters) are excellent at ripping them open. And as long as you're more than 18" away from a vet squad, his infantry aren't a big threat to you.

 

Yes, but how are you planning on getting to his side armour? Outflanking requires a GM, not everyone can or wants to field one. Deepstrike is a pretty risky proposition, and IG are masters of area denial (they just cover their DZ in units and nab all the good drop zones). Not to mention both of those are Reserve strategies, and if you do it a lot, he's likely to crack out the Fleet Master to further screw you over.

 

Interceptors and Dreadknights are the only Knight units that have the speed to engage his side armour, and in the case of the Dreadknight, he's going to draw all lascannon to him that turn he shunts. Interceptors are limited by cost and can only engage two targets max a turn (assuming you combat squad or buy combat squads with psycannon). They're also likely to be out of support range (ie the main phalanx of Libby+Terminators/Strikers/Purifiers), so getting ganked is a real risk

 

Since there is no one standard GK build, it doesn't really make sense to ask what one opponent gives us trouble.

 

Maybe, but every army build out of our codex is going to fall somewhere in this spectrum of vulnerability;

 

- Coteaz: Your Troops are very shooty, but are squishy and print KP's for the enemy with their dedicated transports

- Pure Knight: You have the lowest model count in the game next to Deathwing, and you are just Marines when you die

- Pure Paladins: THE lowest model count in the game, S8+ hits are your bane, you can get bogged down or focus fired to death

 

The big problem with all of those is staying power. If things don't go to plan, or you screw up a part of your strategy, a Knight army is going to fall apart quickly. Blocking our psychic powers is a start. Outranging us consistently is another. Mobility is great, you can run rings around our staples and we only have specialists to chase you with (who are pricey).

[Okidus]

Demons. It sounds crazy but getting 2++ on everything vs Force Weapons is pretty good.

Silly Matt.

[Gentlemanloser]

That is silly. :lol:

 

When they're all I1, suffer through Warp Quake, and we get a reroll to hit all of them.

 

The shooting them off the table before they can actually do anything is just the icing on the cake.

 

No GK list (not Coteaz Henchman spam) should ever really worry about any Daemon list. Ever. And if they get the wrong half in and bad first turn DS, they might just as well pack up.

 

It's not as bad as facing the old sanctuary, but it's an utterly lopsided match.

 

Pure Knight: You have the lowest model count in the game next to Deathwing, and you are just Marines when you die

 

While it's possibly to 'bling' out a pure knight list, and have a very low mini count, it's also possible to run a pure knight list and field nearly as many marines as a 'nilla SM army. We've got a nilla player, and every game he brings up his 16 points marines, and how much better my 20 point ones are with just Power Weapons and Stormbolters included. My Rhinos only cost 5 more points then him and are 'immune' to shaken and stun. And who cares we don't get easy access to Melta's when I can out gun him and blow his tanks up through the shear amount of psycannons I can bring.

 

And with a cheap HQ (BC if you can't get away with an OM Inq as a 'pure' GK list), Strikes in Rhinos, and Autocannon Dreads, we can field a very comparable list to a nilla marine one (for size and armour).

 

:lol:

[breng77]

I actually think, barring warp quake spam, or general list tailoring daemons do ok.