deep strike and combat squad

[The Unknown Father]

Hi! just a simple question, is it possible to use deep strike and deep strike with the same squad? if so it is possible to deploy a "half squad" via deep strike and the other without it?

 

 

thanks

[greatcrusade08]

combat squads must be deployed at the same time, they dont 'combat squad' until the models hit the table

[Hiro_Protagonist]

The combat squads are "deployed" when you place them into reserve at which point you have to declare if the unit is combat squaded or not.

 

I'm pretty sure that only the drop pods (which have a special rule) allow you to combat squad after hitting the board.

[Legatus]

The combat squads are "deployed" when you place them into reserve at which point you have to declare if the unit is combat squaded or not.

Units held in reserve are on the contrary specifically said to not be deployed, and are later deployed at the point when they become available and are placed on the board.

 

 

it is possible to deploy a "half squad" via deep strike and the other without it?

No, that is not possible. Whether or not the unit is deployed via deep strike has to be declared at the start of the game, at the point when the unit is held back in reserve. The decision to divide the unit into combat squads is made at the point when they are deployed on the table, so after the successful reserve roll in turn X. At the point you declare the unit to deep strike, it is still one big unit of ten Marines. Later, when that unit of ten Marines deep strikes, you can decide whether to split the unit into two combat squads of five or not.

[bystrom]

If you follow GWs FAQ ruling to the letter, then by the SM:FAQ, no squad can combat squad when coming in from reserve. Otherwise, what Legatus said.

 

Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the Drop Pod? (p69)

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.

Or to break it down, the reason why you can't have one combat squad in a drop pod is because:

squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.

which is pretty clear.

Personally, I ignore this specific ruling (and follow the rules as written in the codex, as said by Legatus), as it changes how the rule works, but ultimately, I see it as a house rule.

[dswanick]

If you follow GWs FAQ ruling to the letter, then by the SM:FAQ, no squad can combat squad when coming in from reserve. Otherwise, what Legatus said.

 

Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the Drop Pod? (p69)

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.

Or to break it down, the reason why you can't have one combat squad in a drop pod is because:

squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.

which is pretty clear.

Personally, I ignore this specific ruling (and follow the rules as written in the codex, as said by Legatus), as it changes how the rule works, but ultimately, I see it as a house rule.

Yeah, it's a good thing that you don't combat squad until you're deploying the unit. Then it becomes a non-issue...

[Legatus]

Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the Drop Pod? (p69)

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.

I am pretty sure that is just a very unfortunately phrased "No, because a squad may not break down into combat squads at the point when it is placed in reserve. The decision to break the squad down into combat squads is made at the point when the squad is being deployed."

 

Squads are placed in reserve at the beginning of the game. Being placed in reserve means that they are not being deployed, and they are instead deployed when they arrive from reserve. The rules for combat squads explain that the unit is broken down when it is deployed.

So the statement that a unit that is placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads is technically correct according to the Codex rules. It is simply unfortunately too brief and too general, without specifying that they may not break down into combat squads at the moment they are placed in reserve.

[Quixus]

Exactly. The FAQ entry only clarifies that even though a squad in a drop pod must be deployed as the whole squad (transports can only carry one squad, combat squadded units count as two), the unit can still combat squad after they left the drop pod, which happens right after deployment. I.e. Drop pod lands, combat squad a moves in on direction, combat squad b moves in another.

 

Without this clarification an opponent would be perfectly right to say that a squad in a drop pod cannot combat squad.

[maturin]

Exactly. The FAQ entry only clarifies that even though a squad in a drop pod must be deployed as the whole squad (transports can only carry one squad, combat squadded units count as two), the unit can still combat squad after they left the drop pod, which happens right after deployment. I.e. Drop pod lands, combat squad a moves in on direction, combat squad b moves in another.

 

Without this clarification an opponent would be perfectly right to say that a squad in a drop pod cannot combat squad.

 

 

There is a part of the combat tactics rule that makes it clear the above is not RAI.

 

Specifically, the part that says "The one exception to this is squads arriving in Drop Pods, which may break down into combat squads when they arrive..." (I'm working from memory, so may have paraphrased a bit). Based on this section I think the RAI is quite clear, that you're not allowed to combat squad when reserving....unless you're podding in.

[Quixus]

Right, I forgot about this. That part of the rule is exactly the same thing the FAQ states. a unit in a drop pod can be combat squadded, when the drop pod has hit the table.

[bystrom]

I am pretty sure that is just a very unfortunately phrased "No, because a squad may not break down into combat squads at the point when it is placed in reserve. The decision to break the squad down into combat squads is made at the point when the squad is being deployed."

I agree. Unfortunately this isn't what is written, it says, squads in reserve may not combat squad; there isn't much leeway. I still interpret it just the way you do though.

[dswanick]

Please, not this debate again (use search, this has been debated before). Here's the breakdown:

DEPLOY FORCES

Sometimes battles occur between forces that have been in place for weeks, carefully preparing their positions, while at other times a skirmish between patrols escalates into a major engagement, with reserves pouring in from other sectors. You can either agree with your opponent which type of deployment to use for your armies, or roll a d6 and consult the chart:

...

PICHED BATTLE

...

The player that goes first then chooses one of the long table edges to be his own table edge. He then deploys his force in his half of the table, with all models more than 12" away from the table's middle line

...

SPEARHEAD

...

The player that goes first then chooses one of the long table edges to be his own table edge. He then deploys his force in one of the two table quarters on his side the table, more than 12" away from the centre of the table

...

DAWN OF WAR

...

The player that goes first then chooses one of the long table edges to be his own table edge. He then can deploy up to two units from his Troop s selections and up to one unit from his HQ selections in his half of the table

...

Normally, you are required to deploy your forces before the start of the game, putting them on the table in what is defined in this section as 'you deployment zone'. It is during Deployment that you are called to make the decision to Combat Squad.

RESERVES

...

Preparing reserves

When deploying their army. players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve. Units in reserve will become available in later turns of the game.

 

During deployment, when declaring which units are left in reserve, the player must clearly explain the organisation of his reserves to the opponent.

...

Similarly. the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together

...

This section gives you the rules for not deploying some of your units, instead leaving them in Reserve. Units in Reserve are not yet deployed and therefore you can not yet make the decision to Combat Squad. It is at this time that you must declare which units will start the game embarked in transports. As a transport can only hold one unit, and the reserved transport and its embarked unit will arrive together this would normally preclude Combat Squads in transports.

Rolling for reserves

At the start of each of his Movement phases except the first, before moving any unit, the player must roll a dice for each of his units in reserve. Depending on the turn in question, a certain result will mean that the unit has arrived

...

Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described later. Then he picks another unit and deploys it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table,

Normally a squad with a drop pod is placed in reserve embarked in its drop pod. Being a transport, the squad and the pod are rolled for as a single group but the squad is then required to deploy embarked in the drop pod.

COMBAT SQUADS

...

The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed. Both combat squads can be deployed in separate locations. The one exception to this is a unit that arrives by Drop Pod. The player can choose to split such a unit into combat squads when it disembarks from the Drop Pod.

...

Normally this would prevent you from combat squading the unit because two units can't occupy the same transport at the same time, which would be the case for the brief time between arriving/deploying the drop pod model and disembarking the transported unit. The drop pod gives you specific permission to break this rule, however.

None of this prevents an Assault squad with Jump Packs from being placed in Reserve, arriving from Reserve on a successful die roll, and then as you are deploying it you declare that they will Combat Squad and each five man squad is then deployed anywhere you want it on the table.

[greatcrusade08]

thanks for the indepth explanation dswanick, i thought i had paraphrased and summarised it quite well in one sentence..

 

combat squads must be deployed at the same time, they dont 'combat squad' until the models hit the table

 

then again going by this discussion, perhaps not ;)

[maturin]

Normally this would prevent you from combat squading the unit because two units can't occupy the same transport at the same time, which would be the case for the brief time between arriving/deploying the drop pod model and disembarking the transported unit. The drop pod gives you specific permission to break this rule, however.

None of this prevents an Assault squad with Jump Packs from being placed in Reserve, arriving from Reserve on a successful die roll, and then as you are deploying it you declare that they will Combat Squad and each five man squad is then deployed anywhere you want it on the table.

 

He's convinced me, especially with this section!

[Something Wycked]

Am I the only one who thinks that dswanick's post deserves a sticky? That was absolutely fantastic, and we get questions about Reserve & Combat Squads regularly.

[greatcrusade08]

Am I the only one who thinks that dswanick's post deserves a sticky? That was absolutely fantastic, and we get questions about Reserve & Combat Squads regularly.

 

i second this motion..

[Frosty the Pyro]

I must say Dswanic, that is a very sucinct and color coaded explanation, and considering the amount of times I have explained the same thing on these forums, that means a good bit comin from me :D .

 

The only thing I feal obligated to add is that the other notable exception to combat squading in a transport is when using super heavy transports (though that is not going to occur in a standard game).