KJB Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Picked it up on Saturday in the local GW, finished it 24 hours later Really good book, one of the better ones i think - won't put any spoilers or anything up at the moment as I can't get the spoiler tags to work today for some reason! Am now fighting the urge to start Raven Guard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Corax being afraid of Curze (he admitted it) and Alpharius' treatment from Erebus and Abaddon bugged me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2947364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Huh...didn't know this was out. MUST buy it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2947573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Got mine about a week ago, through pre-order ob BL's website. Still reading it, so won't jump to concluisions on what i think about the book just yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2947724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabouri Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I am in the middle. First 20 pages where a bit dissapointng, but after that it is a good reading. Corax's description is very good on my opinion. And the way Alpha legion acts....... NICE !!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2947726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Dew Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Corax being afraid of Curze (he admitted it) and Alpharius' treatment from Erebus and Abaddon bugged me. Corax was not afraid of Curze he was afraid of Night Haunter (yes i know same person but...) Corax was given a moral compass while Curze was not and Corax was afraid he might have been Curze if things were differant and that scared him to the core of his being. so far a good book The hints that atleast on of the Alphalegion is kind of getting stockholm syndrome is almost funny Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2947981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Corax being afraid of Curze (he admitted it) and Alpharius' treatment from Erebus and Abaddon bugged me. He wasn't afraid of Curze, he mentioned that had he stayed he could've killed Curze and Lorgar at the probable sacrifice of his own life. What scared him was that they had come from similar upbringings after their scatterings, and that he could have easily turned out like Curze. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2948093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconis Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Ah good! I got hold of a copy about a month ago and have been waiting to discuss it with people! It's an interesting book and it's awesome to see Corax and the Ravenguard get some love. I'm not so sure about Gav Thorpe as a writer though- all his characters are far too human. Which is fine for his Imperial Guard books, but not so great with Eldar or Space Marines... Unless of course the Ravenguard are meant to be "more human" than other Legions..? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2948247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Got it about a month ago and loved it. My only problem with it is and a large number of heresy books is the number of custudoes that have died. We are up to about 30 now. I remember when the Emperor only lost 3 when he broke a waaagh that had routed 2 legions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2948451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Proteus Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Being a Raven Guard fanboy, I'm pretty much forced at bolter-point to buy this. Hopefully, it will inspire me to finish off the remaining portions of my army. I just have to wait till my GW gets it in. Where's that big guy with the red power armor and the rhino pulled by skitarii when I need him? :D -Proteus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2948771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Thinking back over it. I also liked The Primarch retirement houses deep under a mountain, built ack when the proect was founde and the Emperor though he had 20 sons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2948781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Thinking back over it. I also liked The Primarch retirement houses deep under a mountain, built ack when the proect was founde and the Emperor though he had 20 sons Yeah, I liked that part too - Imagine Angron fishing in an underground lake outside his retirement castle - awesome! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2948855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Ah good! I got hold of a copy about a month ago and have been waiting to discuss it with people!It's an interesting book and it's awesome to see Corax and the Ravenguard get some love. I'm not so sure about Gav Thorpe as a writer though- all his characters are far too human. Which is fine for his Imperial Guard books, but not so great with Eldar or Space Marines... Unless of course the Ravenguard are meant to be "more human" than other Legions..? I believe they're one of the legions with a more humanist approach, much like the salamanders. Of course they are still marines and pretty much detached from us mere mortals so that probably should still be put across in any RG lit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2948977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
recon0321 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 so what i want to know is... was the word bearer chaplain actually loyal or not?? been awhile since i read first heretic and cant remember if they were traitors before nikeaa?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2949078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmagog Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Corax knew the taint of chaos was within him! I cant find the exact quote but it does say it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2949254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Corax knew the taint of chaos was within him! I cant find the exact quote but it does say it! Well, I wouldn't be too sure. He says he 'smelled the taint', but Corax isn't exactly stable at that point. One of the major points about the book is that Corax goes a little insane after Istvaan, stopping at nothing to punish the traitors, even when it'd be smarter not to. That scene, to me, was supposed to show the beginning of this slipping, with Corax killing a presumably innocent Marine purely because he had the colours of a Word Bearer. He couldn't see through his bias, and doesn't until the end of the book, when he finally realises that his love of his Legion is destroying him and it. Corax justified everything and anything with the rationale of "I must punish the Traitors", and was utterly blinded to the cost of what he was doing. At first he killed a Marine purely because of the Legion he was inducted into, with no further proof whatsoever, and with the novel finishing with Corax almost destroying his Legion by rushing into creating a new fighting force, creating abominations instead, and almost sacrificing the entire Legion against the Alpha Legion rather than cutting their losses and destroying the gene-tech. As Corax puts it himself, Curze destroyed his Legion with his hatred of the Night Lords, and Corax almost became his mirror once again by destroying his Legion with his love of the Raven Guard. In short, we don't know. Corax killed him out of hatred and rage, rather than evidence, and even the Raven Guard doubted what Corax did. They tell themselves he smelled the taint, but they didn't even know whether the Chaplain was in contact with anyone outside the Legion. He could have been a foul traitor, or he could have been a loyal follower of the Emperor, seperate from the corruption of his Legion, who had the misfortune of having his Primarch turn traitor without his knowledge. After all, he was entirely surprised by the knowledge that the Word Bearers were corrupt. Surely if he was too, he'd have been instructed to begin sabotaging the Legion from the inside, rather than leaving an incredibly valuably-placed pawn to die. Sadly, Corax killed him before anyone could do even the most rudimentary of investigations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2949299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He wasn't afraid of Curze, he mentioned that had he stayed he could've killed Curze and Lorgar at the probable sacrifice of his own life. What scared him was that they had come from similar upbringings after their scatterings, and that he could have easily turned out like Curze. Corax was not afraid of Curze he was afraid of Night Haunter (yes i know same person but...) Corax was given a moral compass while Curze was not and Corax was afraid he might have been Curze if things were differant and that scared him to the core of his being. so far a good book The hints that atleast on of the Alphalegion is kind of getting stockholm syndrome is almost funny Indeed. That's what i get for trying to devour the book before finals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2949536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Got it yesterday, about halfway through ATM, but am enjoying the Alpha Legion parts the best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2949538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Question about the implications of when the Emperor meets Corax for the first time and the whole 'Russ and the Mission Legions' speculation: Does anyone know the order in which the Primarchs were recovered? Even better, has there ever been a timeline indicated of how long that process took? I ask because... When Corax is reunited with the Emperor, the Emperor mentions him having 17 brothers. Corax asks why he was numbered '19' if there's only 18 of them, and the Emperor replies that the fate of two of the Primarchs is best left for later. Throughout the HH series, it's been implied that the Space Wolves are responsible for one or both of the missing legions' demise. I think most have presumed this occurred at some point during the Great Crusade 'proper', given the implication that most if not all of the Primarchs are around to know of it (i.e. Russ was there to lead the Wolves, the two missing Primarchs were there to be eliminated (or whatever), and when it's come up, the other Primarchs typically act/speak as if they knew the missing two and know what Russ did to them - i.e. had also been found and reunited and taking part in the GC). But the above passage indicates that the two legions, or at least their Primarchs, were dealt with before Corax was discovered, and Corax spent about ten years on Deliverance before the Emperor came. Was he among the last Primarchs to be recovered? Because I'm trying to jive the existing impression given by the HH novels with this specific detail, and the only way it reconciles for me is if Corax was amongst the last of the primarchs to be found. I've tried searching online, but other than Horus (possibly) being the first recovered, I haven't found info on either Corax' place in the recovery timeline or any general overall timeline of this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2950142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Doesn't the Alpha Legion IA mention Alpharius as the last discovered? I believe some of the novels and short stories have references- something like legionaries from one legion seeing the joyful reactions of other legions when they first meet their primarchs- then they have first contact as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2950162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I forgot that the twins are the last found - even DL mentions that - but it was still surprising that the missing legions were dealt with so early in the crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2950418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Just my thoughts.. My spoilers are serious. As corax is 19th its not so surprising he was found later-ish. IIRC he is not mentioned in any other primarchs discovery like Magnus or Horus. Good stuff: Primarchs are actually in the book. Even moreso some scenes have their viewpoint. The bad side of this is when they aren't portrayed very well. I felt Alpharius-Horus interactions were kinda flat and dull. Horus' two minion marines in those scenes were very childish aswell and made horus look like the king of the angry schoolboys. Alpharius reaction was also kinda lame. The toys of 40k universe get played with.. The Emperor's Primarch lab. But this part of the book felt incredibly drawn out to me. The Alpha Legion near the end became a little cartoony to me. Ort being oblivious to secrets and having to be killed at the end by his brothers was lol in a bad way. In legion AL were portrayed as very loyal to even their mortal operatives.. In DL AL marines are completely expendable to Omegon. I don't know.. I just would of preferred to sticking with the legion version, since we now have the useless cabal confirmed for having turned the AL (not a scheme with a scheme or anything). It feels like Gav was trying make em evil. Then you have the whole conundrum of Corax invented a way of making super marines out of children in just a few days.. with no real side effects until the AL mess it up. The biggest surprise was when Omegon actually escaped with the helix or whatever it was.. Interesting to see what happens there. IIRC there is a sentence in the book that goes. "Secrets made Alpharius happy... " Was pretty jarring. Overall its alright. The Aurelian extract is how I want primarchs to be portrayed.. Not like in DL, Still kudos for tackling the subject for Gav. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2950601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANCIENT FALOR Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Finished it today. Bought it sat evening. I thought it was a really good book. No complaints here. better than prospero burns, legion, nemesis. wish there was more to the word bearer chaplain. One of favorites for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2951980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Great read, I like how the little snippet about the SW. The raven gaurd think if any of the primarchs get to and kill horus it will be Russ and his boys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2951993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Great read, I like how the little snippet about the SW. The raven gaurd think if any of the primarchs get to and kill horus it will be Russ and his boys. WHAT!?!? i havent got the book yet, but as a fan of both corax and russ please give me more details! WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243768-deliverance-lost/#findComment-2952033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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