Emergency Disembarkation

[falldown]

Hey All. This came up in a game a while ago. I had a Rhino completely surrounded by scarabs. The Rhino got "wrecked" due to stacking immobilized/weapon destroyed results. My opponent told me that due to the emergency debarkation rules he was able to place his squad within 1" of my scarabs as long as that was within 2" of the now wrecked Rhino. This allowed him to place his entire assault squad.

 

Is this accurate?

[JamesI]

Hey All. This came up in a game a while ago. I had a Rhino completely surrounded by scarabs. The Rhino got "wrecked" due to stacking immobilized/weapon destroyed results. My opponent told me that due to the emergency debarkation rules he was able to place his squad within 1" of my scarabs as long as that was within 2" of the now wrecked Rhino. This allowed him to place his entire assault squad.

 

Is this accurate?

No. He can't be within 1 inch of the scarabs. If you had the vehicle surrounded and wrecked it, everyone inside is dead.

[Saiisil]

In short you got screwed, all Emergency Disembarkation allows one to do is say you had all three access points of the rhino blocked but nothing blocking the front, he could disembark off of the front but iirc the unit is pinned or needs to take a pinning test when it does so

[dswanick]

Actually, yes and no.

Disembarking

Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy. If any models cannot disembark because of enemies or because they would end up in impassable terrain, the unit can perform an 'emercency disembarkation' - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicles hull, but the unit can't do anything else for the rest of the turn. If even this disembarkation is impossible, they can't disembark.

Q: If a transport vehicle is completely surrounded can a unit inside disembark by moving through the enemy models? (p67)

A: No. Models that disembark are still subject to the normal movement rules regarding moving through other models as per page 11.

If by "completely surrounded" you mean scarabs were on all sides of the model such that his models bases could not fit between the scarabs bases - then yes, the disembarking was illegal.

If by "completely surround" you mean only that you had models on all sides such that his models would have ended up within 1" of your scarabs after legally moving his models between gaps in the bases - then yes, he was correct.

[KnowThyEnemy]

out of curiosity, is the top of the vehicle considered "part of the hull"? im just wondering if you must disembark and then the vehicle counts as being wrecked or if the vehicle is wrecked and then you must disembark. if its the latter, you could place the unit on the shell of the vehicle or in the crater where the vehicle once was. might be a silly question/statement but i figured it was worth an ask :P. please quote some references to support your argument

[JamesI]

you disembark, then the vehicle is wrecked. It is not possible to deploy on top of a wrecked vehicle.

 

Now if the vehicle explodes, that is different. You put down the crater, then the guys inside the crater.

[Something Wycked]

you disembark, then the vehicle is wrecked. It is not possible to deploy on top of a wrecked vehicle.

It is possible to be on top of a wrecked vehicle, as it is only difficult terrain (and dangerous terrain? I forget if its both). But as JamesI mentions, the squad must disembark first and then the vehicle is considered a wreck; it is illegal to place models on top of other models.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

You can deploy on the vehicle at any time you cannot use a hatch to disembark when you declare they are making an Emergency Disembark.

 

Once you do that, the vehicle immediately counts as destroyed and you can deploy on any part of it, though it counts as dangerous and difficult when *moving*. Remember disembark just happens before any movement.

 

Buuuuuut... Deploying a whole squad or even 5 guys when surrounded by scarabs base to base with the vehicle would be destroyed.. can't avoid the 1" mark at that point.

[Seahawk]

You can deploy on the vehicle at any time you cannot use a hatch to disembark when you declare they are making an Emergency Disembark.

 

Once you do that, the vehicle immediately counts as destroyed and you can deploy on any part of it, though it counts as dangerous and difficult when *moving*. Remember disembark just happens before any movement.

 

Buuuuuut... Deploying a whole squad or even 5 guys when surrounded by scarabs base to base with the vehicle would be destroyed.. can't avoid the 1" mark at that point.

Incorrect. All the models must disembark first, NOT on top of the vehicle, because two models cannot coexist unless they're in a transport (which they now cannot be). After all disembark moves have been made, then the vehicle becomes a wreck and they can move onto it.

[falldown]

If by "completely surrounded" you mean scarabs were on all sides of the model such that his models bases could not fit between the scarabs bases - then yes, the disembarking was illegal.

If by "completely surround" you mean only that you had models on all sides such that his models would have ended up within 1" of your scarabs after legally moving his models between gaps in the bases - then yes, he was correct.

 

completely surrounding the rhino involved, I believe, seven scarab bases evenly spaced. So basically what it comes down to on this is... If there is a space equaling the size of the passenger's base between attacking models, the passengers can move through that space to disembark. Even if by doing so they end up within 1" of an opposing model? See diagram below.

 

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3241/warhammerrhino.png

[dswanick]

If by "completely surrounded" you mean scarabs were on all sides of the model such that his models bases could not fit between the scarabs bases - then yes, the disembarking was illegal.

If by "completely surround" you mean only that you had models on all sides such that his models would have ended up within 1" of your scarabs after legally moving his models between gaps in the bases - then yes, he was correct.

 

completely surrounding the rhino involved, I believe, seven scarab bases evenly spaced. So basically what it comes down to on this is... If there is a space equaling the size of the passenger's base between attacking models, the passengers can move through that space to disembark. Even if by doing so they end up within 1" of an opposing model? See diagram below.

 

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3241/warhammerrhino.png

Correct. In an Emergency Disembark, so long as there is one gap between enemy models that the friendly models base can fit through the unit may disembark through that gap - as your excellent diagram shows. :D

[falldown]

Ouch. Makes insta-gibbing squads way more of a pain. Thanks Dswanick!

[Seahawk]

Not really, especially with those large bases, as the disembarking models must still remain 1" from any enemy models at the end of their disembark move.

[KnowThyEnemy]

i think dswanick has shown the exception to the 1" is emergency disembark.

QUOTE (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook @ Pg.67)

Disembarking

Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy. If any models cannot disembark because of enemies or because they would end up in impassable terrain, the unit can perform an 'emercency disembarkation' - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicles hull, but the unit can't do anything else for the rest of the turn. If even this disembarkation is impossible, they can't disembark.

i understand the 1" rule, but that to me says emergency disembark overrules the 1" rule...right?

?

[Seahawk]

This is the only thing I can find that's close to it:

 

Q: If a transport vehicle is completely surrounded can a

unit inside disembark by moving through the enemy

models? (p67)

A: No. Models that disembark are still subject to the

normal movement rules regarding moving through

other models as per page 11.

[KnowThyEnemy]

ah i see. so i guess the question now would be is "through" taken as literal, such as a base moving over another base, or is "through" taken as inbetween enemy models (this is assuming the enemy surrounding is spaced out enough that you could place one of your models base inbetween them). i'd have to give a browse of pg 11 when i get home to see what the reference there is. my thoughts are the 1" rule is like the re-rolling a re-roll rule: beyond rare in its occurance

 

along the same thinking, perhaps the emergency disembark is to deal strictly when all access points are surrounded not necessarily the whole vehicle.

[falldown]

well this is where DS's 1" gap comes in. If there is a 1" gap, the models can move through the gap to open territory as in my diagram.

[Something Wycked]

My only question is if all of that "open territory" on the other side of the Scarabs was within 2" of the vehicle's hull, as per KnowThyEnemy's BRB quote. If the models could not be deployed within 2" of the vehicle's hull, then they could not disembark.

[falldown]

For the sake of argument, all of the SMs in my diagram were within 2" of the hull.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

pg. 11 says though that "a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting." Doesn't this mean that the gap would need to be 3" to allow free passage of the disembarking models?

 

On a seperate note, is it possible to emergency disembark up? Like if you were parked under a balcony or parts of a ruin?

[Acebaur]

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3241/warhammerrhino.png

 

In the above illustration the SM's would be destroyed. I don't know where people are getting this idea that you can move between a gap and be ok. You can only deploy like that if the space between the SM and the scarabs is 1" If it is not, then they are destroyed as you cannot be within 1" of an enemy model unless you are in an assault.

[dswanick]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/warhammerrhino.png/

 

In the above illustration the SM's would be destroyed. I don't know where people are getting this idea that you can move between a gap and be ok. You can only deploy like that if the space between the SM and the scarabs is 1" If it is not, then they are destroyed as you cannot be within 1" of an enemy model unless you are in an assault.

Have you not read the entire discussion? This was posted earlier in the thread.

Disembarking

Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy. If any models cannot disembark because of enemies or because they would end up in impassable terrain, the unit can perform an 'emercency disembarkation' - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicles hull, but the unit can't do anything else for the rest of the turn. If even this disembarkation is impossible, they can't disembark.

This allows the models to be placed as shown in the diagram, provided that the models do not have to actually move through another model to accomplish this Emergency Disembarkation, as clarified by the FAQ.

pg. 11 says though that "a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting." Doesn't this mean that the gap would need to be 3" to allow free passage of the disembarking models?

 

On a seperate note, is it possible to emergency disembark up? Like if you were parked under a balcony or parts of a ruin?

See the above response for your first point. I know of no prohibition on disembarking to upper levels so long as those levels are within 2" of an access point. If there are enemy models on those upper levels then an Emergency Disembarkation would allow them to be placed there, provided they were within 2" of the transport model.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

This allows the models to be placed as shown in the diagram, provided that the models do not have to actually move through another model to accomplish this Emergency Disembarkation, as clarified by the FAQ.

 

The FAQ says that they must follow the normal movement rules as per pg. 11, which says no moving within 1". Unless you teleport the squad (ignoring normal movement rules) how can you get from point A (the wreck) to point B (beyond the enemy models) without going "within 1" of an enemy"?

[maturin]

I'm with Hiro here - to me it seems you'd need a 3" gap to allow a unit to successfully emergency disembark. If you must follow normal movement rules even when disembarking as the FAQ says...it certainly implies that disembarking is no exception to normal movement.

[dswanick]

This allows the models to be placed as shown in the diagram, provided that the models do not have to actually move through another model to accomplish this Emergency Disembarkation, as clarified by the FAQ.

 

The FAQ says that they must follow the normal movement rules as per pg. 11, which says no moving within 1". Unless you teleport the squad (ignoring normal movement rules) how can you get from point A (the wreck) to point B (beyond the enemy models) without going "within 1" of an enemy"?

The normal rules don't prevent you from moving within 1" of a model during the movement, they only prevent you from moving through the area occupied by a model's base or ending the movement within 1" of an enemy model outside of an assault move:

MODELS IN THE WAY

A model may not move into or through the space occupied by another model (which is represented by its base or by its hull) or through a gap between friendly models that is smaller than its own base (or hull) size. A model cannot move so that it touches an enemy model during the Movement and Shooting phase, this is only possible in an assault during the Assault phase. To keep this distinction clear, a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting.

This is reinforced by the Assault rules :

MOVING ASSAULTING MODELS

All of the models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the

Movement phase, with the exception that they may be moved within l" of enemy models. This means that assaulting models may still not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting.

And the prohibition on ending their movement within 1" of an enemy model is overruled by the Emergency Disembarkation rules:

Models cannot disembark within l" of an enemy. If any models cannot disembark because of enemies or because they would end up in impassable terrain, the unit can perform an 'emercency disembarkation' - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicles hull, but the unit can't do anything else for the rest of the turn.