Atlantic Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 My buddy and I are going to enter a pretty major tournament for our area in March. We've been talking about lists and what we'll bring as we always tend to do. I recently played in a tournament running a mechanized list (4 Razorbacks, 4 attack bikes, Seth with a pimped out honour guard squad and a Land Raider Redeemer) and I did really well. I had intended on bringing the same list, but we started discussing Land Raiders. My buddy's philosophy is that everything is better in pairs. That lead our conversation to the only thing better than one land raider would be two land raiders as popping both of them would be pretty difficult for alot of opponents. I sat down with the codex and a calculator and took things one step further. I made a list with 6 Land Raiders, each packed with a simple 5 man assault squad and a cheapo captain as HQ. Has anyone tried anything like this? I think most people would not be able to as 6 Land Raiders are pretty pricey. Getting a hold of 6 of them for the tournament wouldn't be a problem for me. THe whole thing is pretty crazy, but I"m sorely tempted by being able to park 6 scoring Land Raiders on objectives. (or alternatively taking 5 Land Raiders and Mephiston) Would this be a viable tactic or would it be highly frowned upon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soups Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 One thing you can always ask yourself when making a list, and it's tendency to be fun. 1)Would I enjoy playing against it 2)If you have to ask, you probably already know the answer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkrieg861 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 First things first... This is hilarious and awesome (starts budgetting to buy 4 more Raiders next paycheque) Now, in regards to the tournament. Let's look at what a tournament is. A bunch of people getting together to compete for a 1st place position. To prove you are the best of this group of individuals at this game through your tactics, army list and a little luck. If someone doesn't like it at a tournament, they do not belong there. I would not concern yourself with a good sportsmanship score. This is a ridiculous statistic as it will be influenced not only by your list but on whether or not you had to call your opponent on a rule that is being used incorrectly, his general demenor towards the game and opponents and on whether or not he won. I have a hard time believing anyone would get a good score if they tabled someone in a tournament. Play to win. If anyone there is not doing the same then they will lose, as they should. This army is awesome by the way. I'd go with Mephy though, dump the 5 man squad at the beginning of the game and have Mephy take their spot inside the Raider. Hilarious dude, I want to play this army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It sounds like fun but as 1500 points of your army is raiders or 1290 at least if you go against an army with a ton of melta or a dark lance spam dark eldar than you will have a hard time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokhar Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 "Would this be a viable tactic or would it be highly frowned upon?" Probably both. I wouldn't concern yourself with the latter, though. Its a tournament. You're paying to play against other people to try to win a prize. Don't cheat, don't rules lawyer, don't be belligerent, and beyond that, don't sweat it if someone doesn't find your list fun to play against. Going up against a list like this could be kinda crappy for a casual game night (though I'd probably find it hilarious), but for a tournament, all is fair. As for it being a viable tactic, I'd say it has some potential on its own merits, with a lot of upside depending on your local meta. If Dark Eldar players are prevalent, the list could fall on its face. However, most people rely on autocannons/missile launchers (or a near equivalent) for their anti-tank purposes. Of course everyone brings melta, but popping 6 Land Raiders isn't exactly easy unless you've got like 30 meltaguns like IG. So against most generalist lists, you could have a real advantage in the durability of your list. The problem lies with Land Raiders not being particularly good at killing stuff. 5-man assault squads really aren't much better, either. So if you actually have to slug it out with someone, you could be in trouble. I'd be interested to see which Land Raider variants you plan on taking. And do yourself a favor and don't ever take a Captain. Its the most singularly useless option in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The problem lies with Land Raiders not being particularly good at killing stuff. 5-man assault squads really aren't much better, either <= this 6 is too many LRs . 3-4 LRs , better 3 probably . bigger squads and support HQs [priests maybe elite chappies etc ] for squads + either scouting baals or MM attack bikes . think about it . If LR would be as awesome as you think , then people would be spaming those builds [specialy with BAs who get them cheaper and with troops that actualy want an assault ramp and a transport with more then 10 slots] . they dont . why? because poping av14 isnt realy a problem in 5th ed, if an army can not do it then it cant counter many other builds[so is bad and is not played]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
by_any_other_names Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Ya, use a libby instead of a cpt. Give libby the sheild for a 5+ inv save bubble or try a x3 storm raven list, with DC dreads Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'll go in right now and say 6 raiders would not win any major tournament. Some one will show up with a decent number of ways to kill raiders, and as has been mentioned Raiders really don't kill much. I think Jeske has it right, 6 is over board. It comes down to this if you have a hard time dealing with land raiders 3-4 will be near impossible to deal with, if you have an easy time dealing with land raiders, then you really would love seeing 6 on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Falcon 88 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 try a x3 storm raven list, with DC dreads If this is run by God dont play guard they would have a field day with this list. If they run with decent tactics. Autocannons are cheap and plentiful. Or if they use hydras. As for 6 raiders would be a supprise factor but anyone with a melta attack bike or two or a couple of meltas in rhinos would eat you alive. The idea of plopping two or three raiders on the table is all about the shock and awe factor. But as they have said above its not very competitive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Like Blitzkrieg861 said... 6 Land Raiders is a big can of super hot winsauce. Too hot for some, this list will sort the men from the boys. You might not actually "win" any games, you might win them all, but despite what a tournament is normally about, that's not "really" what this list is about. But... if anyone doesn't actually enjoy a) the prospect of and b ) actually playing, against that list they need to grow a sense of humour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I would run two normal Land Raiders and two Crusader or Redeemer ones. Fill the squads out in the Crusader or Redeemer ones and have one or two Heavy weapon squads with Plasma Cannons or Missile Launchers. I think they would give you enough to still get a Dreadnought but not sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 put it this way, in my 1500 list, i have 2 tl assault cannons, 3 melta guns, mepheston, a demolisher cannon, powerfists etc... now if i target a single raider a turn, the unit that kiled it can kill the contents in assault, right. 5 men squads are no problem for me to deal with. a raider may take a fair bit of firepower to down, but each time i do the contents are usuallly dead too. you dont have enough firepower to effectively silence the anti tank fire that will be comming at you. and i dont even have a dedicated antitank army... face one of them and youll really struggle... and due to the prevaience of mech theres a fair few around. saying that my nids would really struggle against this till my zoanthropes show up... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.ops Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 X amount of LR will not win any game. They are just a tool - a delivery tool. X amount of LR successfully delivers payload at Y location - that wins the game. Lord knows if one LR successfully delivers 14 DC and a Reclusiarch in terminator armor at the front door of the enemies home objective that they just lost home base - period. That wins the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 My unoptimized all comers Vanilla list will have little problem. My fluffy guard fun army would giggle uncontrollably and table you by turn 3. Necron glancing spam will ruin your day. Tournament lists need to be one of two things... First, a list that will work regardless of opponent, that if the dice work most of the time, the lists work most of the time. Second, a list that you know inside and out that is well balanced with no bad matchups, played by a good player. Either way you need luck. If you win a decent sized tournament without either one of those things, you've won by luck almost exclusively. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Each Land Raider + ASM squad will be 100 + 240 - 35 = 305 at least. 6 x 305 + 100 = 1930. So 6 Land Raiders won't fit, 5 + Mephy will though ^^ I would not frown upon it. I would love to play against it to see if my own list is build well enough. Because if it is: Then I should win against this, 5 Av14 hulls is pretty much all there is and the damage output of it is not that amazing. Mephy would worry me the most haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 The interesting thing about our local meta is that I have only seen Dark Eldar once. I see alot of Grey Knights, other Blood Angels, Tyranids, and Orks. In my experience (as I always tend to run one Land Raider) is that it draws a mountain of fire and tends to survive most games. My plan was to run 2 or 3 redeemers and 3 or 4 of the basic variety. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 This list is horrible. There are lots of armies that could roll it in three turns. Seriously it's really bad. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Blayse Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 At our LGS a LR can be hit or miss. One player used to run his all the time, then everyone started playing pointy ears, both types. Lances are bad business. I would probably say no more than 3 to 4 LR's tops. The Lascannon version is really not that great, doesn't kill much. Better to use the Crusader or Redeemer, much more deadly. If your going to want to do some damage I would also second Meph and run a squad of Assault Terminators. Not sure why we don't see that much of these guys, but the are even better for us. Load them into a Crusader/Redeemer with a Sang. Priest and watch the party start. You might run a couple of Annihilator Preds to replace the regular LR's, you'll kill a lot more with them and they are pretty tough on their own. Keep squads in the transport big enough to survive a turn or two if out of their vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2948997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Couple of notes: -I can't think of a way that 6 land raiders is possible in an 1850 BA list. 6x 5ras+redeemer +HQ is 1930. 5pts less if one is a min sized DC in a redeemer -Because it has so few targets it has an alarming chance of being smacked about by a few good dice rolls so it might not be as dependable as msu -So few models means like draigowing style lists it will be remarkably unforgiving of misjudged ranges such as your shooting or against their assault/shooting -A raider on it's own doesn't kill things as effectively as a pred for it's cost. That's part of the reason why it has transport -No fast vehicles so no last turn tank shocking off objectives I suggest going for a high AV list with the 3-4 raiders as bookends to preds with at least one heavy assault unit in a raider - I prefer DC for the generalist nature of throwing large numbers of dice at things but due to the exposed engagements assault termies might be better. Having a libbie would also provide shield/hood coverage Couple of people mentioned Meph - having another rock unit would be useful but given the 1000+ pts you're spending on hulls i couldn't justify him until the 2k mark Yea I can see it - 4 crusaders with 3 ac/hb preds setup alternately, slowing rolling around the field spitting out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2949014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 If you ran three landraiders then you'd still have lots of points left to build a more rounded army. Three landraiders are still central to the tenent that they are hard to kill and even more so when you've got more than one. Two years ago for Ard Boyz I ran a list with four landraiders and it did very well. The year before that I can a list with two and made it all the way to the finals back when there was only one final. So sure it can work well but don't put all your eggs in just one basket. ;) G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2949054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Six LRs would absolutely roll over some armies and just die horribly to others. You'll barely have enough points to put anything in them... in fact, I don't think you can do it at all. BA does not get Raiders as a HS choice, only as dedicated transports, so you're spending 100 for ASM and 205 for a LR (with the discount), which is a minimum of 1830 and you still don't have an HQ. You'd have very little firepower, even less assault capacity, and... yeah. It's the epitome of an unbalanced list; anyone who brings significant Melta weaponry will roll you over, anyone who doesn't will die horribly. You will likely get a lot of complaints from the latter crowd as well, since this is sort of the pinnacle of what many people consider "not fun" to play against: the match is mostly decided before the game begins. I won't say that you can't/shouldn't do it, as that's your decision, but in my opinion I think it would be something of a poor choice on several fronts. Running two LRs with their accompanying "hammers" is a much better plan, as it at least leaves room for a decent amount of support. Without that support, you're just betting that people are worse players than you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2949120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_roy Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 One thing you can always ask yourself when making a list, and it's tendency to be fun. 1)Would I enjoy playing against it 2)If you have to ask, you probably already know the answer even better try 7 dreadnoughts lol thats fun! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2951102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Frowned upon?Not at all.I have a friend who plays dark eldar and he would be very happy to have those six raiders in the sights of his lances. Simply put a list which can have high str anti-tank(Las cannon str and above)will lough to death if faced with such a perspective. On the other hand you can probably steamroll grey knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2951725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstraWlad Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 On the other hand you can probably steamroll grey knights. Oh, really? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2951756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 On the other hand you can probably steamroll grey knights. Oh, really? ;) Probably,just how much anti av14 would a normal(ie not tailored)list would have? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243844-6-land-raiders-for-an-1850-tournament/#findComment-2951818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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