Kaldoth Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Well, I've almost finished out my Raven Guard army list. The last piece of this little puzzle I can't quite seem to decide on is what would be a more effective retinue for Shrike to run around with. Currently, I am lacking the power to take on more elite units. Im currently running two tac squads with rhinos and plasma guns, one squad of ten sniper scouts, four landspeeders (two TML/HB, two HF/MM), and one squad of devastators (LC/ML) with a rhino. That being said, I don't see taking on armor or laying the skunieon into light to medium troop choices as being too large a problem. So, Shrike needs a unit of jumpers to play around with. The thing is I don't know what would be a more effective choice: a unit of ten assault marines with a PF and some plasma pistols, or five vanguard with power weapons, packs and a fist. The vanguard will cost around 250 and the assault marines will be around 240. On the charge I'd be looking at 25 attacks for the vanguard and 29 for the assault marines (not including shrike). My concern is this: assault marines and vanguard really don't stack up well against other melee units in other armies. On one hand, the vanguard being kitted out with full power weapons would definitely give them the necessary punch, but there's less bodies there for Shrike to hide behind. With the assault marines, I've got more bodies, but less punch. A charge from a trash unit in my enemy's force could really keep them tangled for longer than I need, rendering them useless. Power weapons mean more stabby goodness, but all I have to take is five wounds before Shrike is all alone in the suck. Any advice? Cheers, -Kal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yotakka Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 when ever i run shrike hes in a 10 man assault squad with a power fist (possiby some flamers). if your looking to throw these guys against a dedicated CC unit your doing it wrong. multichaging a tank and an infantry squad is the best way to keep these guys alive and dealing damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 when ever i run shrike hes in a 10 man assault squad with a power fist (possiby some flamers). if your looking to throw these guys against a dedicated CC unit your doing it wrong. multichaging a tank and an infantry squad is the best way to keep these guys alive and dealing damage What he said. Vanilla marines are not built to take on other army's elite hand to hand units without some serious softening up. A full assault squad with Shrike will wreck vehicles and most army's basic infantry without breaking a sweat. Vanguard lets you go after "vets" like basic terminators a little bit easier, but both will fall flat on their face when they run into Grey Knights, TH/SS Termies, Trygons, Fex squadrons, Wyches, Genestealers, or any of a number of enemy killing units. Both will get swamped more often than not by hordes like Orks and swarm guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 As Warp Angel and Yotakka have pointed out, you're not going to be able to take on enemy CC units effectively on a point-for-point basis. But I would ask you what you mean to use this unit for? Are you planning on infiltrating them and have them wreck shop in enemy lines? If so, you're going to have to spend a lot more points for combat effectiveness (and I'm talking Vanguard). But if you're just using them as a countercharge unit to protect your gunline, then you don't need to be able to take on a whole intact CC squad - because you can rely on the rest of your army to soften a unit up first. The other question is what armies you're likely to face - horde orks? MEQs? GK's? If you're trying to take them all on with one unit it's just going to compound your headache. Barring more information, then only advice I can give you is to swap in a couple of storm shields instead of power weapons on the VV's. It'll boost your unit's durability when attacking units with power weapons/rending. But it doesn't help with the number of bodies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldoth Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Well, unfortunately I don't quite know what armies I'll be facing. I just moved out to my current residence, so I have yet to start any gaming. As far as what I want this unit to do, I will definitely be infiltrating them. I want to use these guys to disrupt the enemy's big and annoying unit(s). I'm not so much worried about taking them out as I am keeping them occupied for at least enough time to make them ineffective as a scoring unit, objective grabber, or away from my lines long enough that they won't be able to close the distance in time to not be cut down by my other forces (tac squads, devastators, sniper scouts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yotakka Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 it sounds like you want them to do everything amazingly well, am i wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldoth Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 it sounds like you want them to do everything amazingly well, am i wrong? Yes. These guys are going to serve as a "keep them busy and soften them up" squad. Im not expecting a game-winning deathstar unit. These guys are for keeping the big guys busy and away from the rest of my lines/grabbable objectives. That and possibly mincing soft ahooty units if there are no other targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bismarxist Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 If that is the case then I would go with a ten man assault squad with flamers and a fist. Not undoly expensive yet able to threaten anything reasonably well. Infantry with 2 flamers and shrike in the assault and tanks with str8 whacks to the rear armor. Now the won't be "exceptional" at that but you aren't going to get such a unit without paying ungodly amounts of points for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Agreed with the assault squad. Don't ever forget krak grenades when assaulting vehicles (there's more than your powerfist), remember to multi-assault if you're against weaker opponents, and don't be afraid to split off Shrike if opportunities permit. Start him with the squad and then on the first move (or after) you can break him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 now i know this is not one of the units in question, but i just wanna throw it out there... what about some terminators to infiltrate with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Taking Shrike to get infiltrating terminators was one of the first tricks tried when the Codex came out. It's not a bad way to get your assault units forward deployed, but they're relatively unsupported after that. I haven't personally tried it, so dunno. I know that my preference is for putting the hard hitters in a Land Raider Crusader, but that's because I want the possibility of mid-game mobility too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 well... in a themed ravenguard army they should hardly be deployed forward alone :mellow: ... also they gain the ability to fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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