Prospero Burns inspired conversion

[frostclaw222]

I really did like the mysticism and general philosophical mindset that Dan Abnett brought to the Wolves. But what really made an impression was how he described the way they ornamented themselves and their wargear. Sure McNeill had Amlodhi wearing a leather mask, but Abnett actually described the mask, explained the circumpunts, etc, in a way that I thought would look great on minis.

 

But I've yet to see Wolves with green stuff leather masks and knotwork on here, and I'm wondering if it's viewed as too difficult or I'm in a severe minority in thinking it'd look cool.

 

Thoughts?

[Russ Brother 92]

I admit if my GSfu was of a standard akin to Doghouse then I'd give it a shot - due to the lack of such skill I haven't tried yet - tbh. if somebody came up with a good piece I'd love it :confused: the idea of space wolves wandering about wearing a leather mask, with flowing knotwork across the armour sets them out even further - which for me is a great thing.

 

Russ

[Wulfebane]

I've considered pouring hours upon days into even a single model, let alone a squad, trying to match the aesthetics depicted in Prospero Burns. I ultimately decided against it because I think (even with the best GSer out there) that with the scale of 40k, it runs the risk of being too much detail at such a small scale that it'll detract from the model and look too busy or cluttered.

 

I'm sure someone will find a way to produce a model in the middle of the goldilocks zone and it'll come out beautifully. For me, though, I think it'd be better suited for Inquisitor scale models or bigger.

[electriceye]

Its part of the reason Ive slowly started tattooing myself in knotwork, currently have one upper arm done in an aegishjalmur, a knotwork serpent curling round that over my back round to my other arm circling another runic and knotwork based yggdrasil and mjolnir.

 

Looks kick arse, although doesnt exactly fit in with the Vlka Fenryka, but having a knotwork story across yourself tells a story, similar to what they would do.

[hendrik]

there are actually two things i disliked about prospero burns:

1) magnus escaping russ! i know it's history and i know they couldn't change it but by russ did i want russ to deliver the deadblow to one-eye!

2) those masks. Even with the exquisite descriptions of the masks i still couldn't ban the idea of all space wolves just going bare-headed out of my mind. hiding their faces behind a mask seems somewhat, "weird"

[Schertenleib]

I have to admit. i was not a fan of the leather mask thing. I have not seen it anywhere but this book, so it just seems out of place to me.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I have to admit. i was not a fan of the leather mask thing. I have not seen it anywhere but this book, so it just seems out of place to me.

 

I think the biggest problem with Prospero burns is that few people seem to understand what Abnet was trying to achieve. The Wolves of Prospero Burns are NOT the Wolves we collect play and love. Abnet described a legion that existed 10 thousand years prior to 40k, a culture that has changed, adapted and evolved into the Wolves we know and love today.

 

It's a valid argument that the Wolves are one of the few Astartes chapters that could change, being so individualistic and not tied down by the codex as chapters like the Ultramarines or the Fists.

[Valerian]

No gimp-masks for my Space Wolves, thank you very much.

 

Valerian

[Wulf Vengis]

They were perhaps meant to represent executioners masks?

[hendrik]

I think the biggest problem with Prospero burns is that few people seem to understand what Abnet was trying to achieve. The Wolves of Prospero Burns are NOT the Wolves we collect play and love. Abnet described a legion that existed 10 thousand years prior to 40k, a culture that has changed, adapted and evolved into the Wolves we know and love today.

 

It's a valid argument that the Wolves are one of the few Astartes chapters that could change, being so individualistic and not tied down by the codex as chapters like the Ultramarines or the Fists.

oh but we do know what he was trying to achieve. however look at it from the other side, the space wolves are a highly suspicious bunch, paying the utmost care to preserve their history and customs. do you see them dropping such a big and visual tradition quickly? how about the 13th company, wouldn't they still keep up this tradition?

[frostclaw222]

As for the 13th keeping the tradition going...Uh, leather probably wouldn't hold up to wear and tear in the warp too long, and then what are you going to replace it with?

 

The masks, as I understood it, were to scare away maleficarum, hence the additional marks of aversion and circumpuncts etched into them. The "off-duty" knotwork outfits were, basically, an outgrowth of their leatherworking skills. In short, they practiced on their outfits to make the masks better.

 

Now, would they abandon such a trait over the course of ten thousand years? I dunno. Maybe there was a Great Wolf who was allergic to leather or thought it was dumb, and he ordered the tradition abandoned?

[hendrik]

As for the 13th keeping the tradition going...Uh, leather probably wouldn't hold up to wear and tear in the warp too long, and then what are you going to replace it with?

plenty of skins available in the warp. preferably traitors skin!

[styygens]

As for the 13th keeping the tradition going...Uh, leather probably wouldn't hold up to wear and tear in the warp too long, and then what are you going to replace it with?

 

The masks, as I understood it, were to scare away maleficarum, hence the additional marks of aversion and circumpuncts etched into them. The "off-duty" knotwork outfits were, basically, an outgrowth of their leatherworking skills. In short, they practiced on their outfits to make the masks better.

 

Now, would they abandon such a trait over the course of ten thousand years? I dunno. Maybe there was a Great Wolf who was allergic to leather or thought it was dumb, and he ordered the tradition abandoned?

 

How about this: they realized they don't need the masks to scare away maleficarum, because Space Wolves are scary enough all by themselves!

[Brother Excedis]

As someone here said earlier I feel as if its to represent the executioner. They were sent to obliterate the Thousand Sons and every Executioner I have seen wore something of the like. Plus, those who are more steeped in the fluff and actual norse history correct me here, isn't it somewhere in the Norse mythos and beliefs that when dealing with something of magic you needed warding symbols of the like and a mask covered in such or warpaint to protect yourself? The masks being used against the more powerful magicks?

 

I'm no wolf here but they have been one of my more favored chapters, so feel free to correct me here :)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

No gimp-masks for my Space Wolves, thank you very much.

 

Valerian

 

 

QFT

 

WLK

[Wulf Vengis]

Im sticking by my executioners mask thought. The Wolves knew their place in the Emperors scheme, and so did the other legions. Each primarch had a purpose, a specific use and the VIth were His executioners. They would do any job regardless of how dirty or unethical. They wore leather masks covered in runes and eyes of aversion to hide their faces. The leather maskes were very detailed and IIRC theres one mention of someones mask looking similar to an animal. Rather terrifying to behold I would assume. After all vikings would wear bear or wolf heads as helm and masks to appear more terrfying to their enemies.

[hendrik]

the executioners mask is all romanesque fantasy/modern thing....if one studies the history you'll notice for example that in the middle ages no executioner wore any mask or the likes.

the question yet stands, why would such an integral part of our legion die out? we've still kept the other traditions i've read in prospero burns.

 

in fact now i think about it, aren't we still somewhat the allfathers executioners?we've waged war against the flesh eaters because they attacked citizens. surely we didn't go "prospero" on them but we are still his executioneers. the entombment of the allfather in the golden throne has just ment we now are our own autority to decide who to execute

[frostclaw222]

As for the 13th keeping the tradition going...Uh, leather probably wouldn't hold up to wear and tear in the warp too long, and then what are you going to replace it with?

plenty of skins available in the warp. preferably traitors skin!

 

hendrik, I'd argue that using filthy traitor skin for leather would put us a large step too close to letting that heresy infect us.

 

As for the other point about us possibly still serving as the Emperor's executioners, I'd say that since the Allfather's Ascension to the Golden Throne, we've almost become his justice made manifest, not just his ultimate sanction personified. With Prospero Burns, I've suddenly got a new understanding for Logan Grimnar and some of his decisions as Great Wolf. While before I thought it was just because generally he was a swell, conscientious guy for an astartes, I think that he's also managed to roll things back a bit and recalled the traditions of the Legion within the present day Chapter, that the Wolves are unleashed to protect the Imperium. Given that the Emperor is no longer able to declare that direst of sanctions, as Russ's heir, Grimnar has assumed that heavy burden himself. That would explain some of the intra-Imperial entanglements down the centuries.

 

Also, for those of you who think the masks have fully died out, look at the Wolf Priests. They still wear totemic helms in many cases. And if anyone was going to keep a tradition alive for 10,000 years, you know it'd be those guys.

 

Just my thoughts here from Guam before happy hour. Hjolda, am I parched....

[frostclaw222]

One last thing before I quench my thirst, vengist: The Rout don't feel guilt. They don't feel shame at doing the Emperor's will. They don't consider a job too dirty or too unethical. Such things never enter into the picture. So the masks were never there to conceal shame or guilt. Nor were they to disguise who they were, as the old timey executioner's hoods were supposed to do; Russ always wanted his foes to see what kind of hurt and suffering he was bringing, and he was never one to conceal it. Nay, he wanted them to know the hammer was coming down, and to feel the knowledge of the Rout's inexorability. The masks, IMNSHO, were there for two reasons: to mount marks of nullification and chastisement against evil sorcery, and to inspire terror in the foe once the Wolves were loosed upon them.

 

Now, where's that ale cask. This tropical climate disagrees with me.

[Wulfebane]

The Rout don't feel guilt. They don't feel shame at doing the Emperor's will. They don't consider a job too dirty or too unethical. Such things never enter into the picture. So the masks were never there to conceal shame or guilt. Nor were they to disguise who they were, as the old timey executioner's hoods were supposed to do; Russ always wanted his foes to see what kind of hurt and suffering he was bringing, and he was never one to conceal it. Nay, he wanted them to know the hammer was coming down, and to feel the knowledge of the Rout's inexorability.

 

Maybe find a way to make the issue regarding the masks to be a more generalized statement on SW mentality and this would be worthy of one of those little side quotes found at random in the codex.

 

....or at the very least, worth knitting into a pillow.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I think the biggest problem with Prospero burns is that few people seem to understand what Abnet was trying to achieve. The Wolves of Prospero Burns are NOT the Wolves we collect play and love. Abnet described a legion that existed 10 thousand years prior to 40k, a culture that has changed, adapted and evolved into the Wolves we know and love today.

 

It's a valid argument that the Wolves are one of the few Astartes chapters that could change, being so individualistic and not tied down by the codex as chapters like the Ultramarines or the Fists.

oh but we do know what he was trying to achieve. however look at it from the other side, the space wolves are a highly suspicious bunch, paying the utmost care to preserve their history and customs. do you see them dropping such a big and visual tradition quickly? how about the 13th company, wouldn't they still keep up this tradition?

 

Quickly? No

 

Over the course of TEN THOUSAND YEARS? Most likely.

[hendrik]

Quickly? No

 

Over the course of TEN THOUSAND YEARS? Most likely.

quickly was meant as a figure of speaking :) what i meant was that for a bunch like the wolves for who traditions and rituals mean a lot I don't see them abandoning the believe that those masks protect them from maleficarum. hell we even stick wolf tails to our armour and suddently we're protected for sorcery.

but even then, there is still the 13th company. these lads are heresy era marines, they've all seen russ with their own eyes and depending on what you take on it is they've been fighting for 10000 years (leaving the "time flows differently in the warp" issue out). these have had no interference from our newer traditions and stick to the old stuff, right?

 

they still use various wildlife's furs and even have some fenrisian wolves with them. does it sound really impossible these guys could get their hands on some sort of leather/ a creatures hide they could use to make such a mask? given that they are in the warp i'd say these lads will use all the protection against maleficum they can find and yet they too don't wear such masks (neither artwork or fluff about them supports it).

 

to me it's just one of those small errors i don't understand. i've got a similar issue with almost all the space wolves wearing their helmets in battle of the fang.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Quickly? No

 

Over the course of TEN THOUSAND YEARS? Most likely.

quickly was meant as a figure of speaking :P what i meant was that for a bunch like the wolves for who traditions and rituals mean a lot I don't see them abandoning the believe that those masks protect them from maleficarum. hell we even stick wolf tails to our armour and suddently we're protected for sorcery.

but even then, there is still the 13th company. these lads are heresy era marines, they've all seen russ with their own eyes and depending on what you take on it is they've been fighting for 10000 years (leaving the "time flows differently in the warp" issue out). these have had no interference from our newer traditions and stick to the old stuff, right?

 

they still use various wildlife's furs and even have some fenrisian wolves with them. does it sound really impossible these guys could get their hands on some sort of leather/ a creatures hide they could use to make such a mask? given that they are in the warp i'd say these lads will use all the protection against maleficum they can find and yet they too don't wear such masks (neither artwork or fluff about them supports it).

 

to me it's just one of those small errors i don't understand. i've got a similar issue with almost all the space wolves wearing their helmets in battle of the fang.

 

Yeah, the helmet thing is annoying. it's been established canon that the Wolves work better without their helmets since the 2nd ed codex.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I'm not sure why Wolves acute senses work better without the helmet, regardless of William King's writings. ;)

 

Marine helmets have targeting arrays, weapon interfaces, noise blocking systems, flash blocking systems, etc. A Marine's helmet isn't some military hat that gets in the way of attacks, or a full helmet that protects the face as well. It is a high-tech interface that enhances everything a warrior is, in addition to whatever kinetic protection it provides.

 

I cannot imagine it impeding smells as the grill can be open to atmosphere, and we don't see fluff showing that Marines are constantly asking for mortals to:

'speak up, I've got this wretched thing on, SLOUDER PLEASE'!

*taps helmet in frustration*

 

:P

 

For me, Wolves go bare headed because that's how they roll. They like the wind in their hair, or beard, and like experiencing things raw. And they are partial to biting your throat out, rather than head-butting you with their armour-clad bonce. Not because the helmet is somehow an impediment....

 

:P

[Kodanshi]

currently have one upper arm done in an aegishjalmur

 

You’re supposed to have that done on your forehead. Or on the inside of your battle helmet, but your forehead nonetheless…