Prospero Burns inspired conversion

[Grey Mage]

I love Abnett, hes a good author and I adore his portrayals of the IG. He said himself though he didnt/doesnt understand marines very well, and the SWs are a special case even amongst the astartes. Add in his health problems while writing the book... I just dont think he got into their heads properly. Its an outlier, and while some will like it I dont agree with theses masks.

 

If you can model them and make them look awesome more power to you. I wont be doing so.

[frostclaw222]

I know the particulars surrounding the writing of the novel, but in reality, I think Dan got it pretty close to right.

 

I mean, let's apply a caveat for the masks, and not get too wrapped up in that. I mean, there's a large Norse tradition for knotwork, so it's debatable, but like I said, let's set the masks aside, despite the fact that it's the reason for this thread for a brief instant.

 

I think the four complaints I see most about Prospero Burns are the following:

 

1) Too much Kasper; not enough Russ.

2) My wolves now have yellow eyes and snouts?! :P?!

3) Too much lead up; not enough Prospero.

4) This whole "There are no wolves on Fenris" thing is really twerking me off....

 

As for the first, we had the same thing happen to a lesser degree in the first three novels of the series, and I think even in A Thousand Sons, which I'd argue is Graham's best work. I think everyone has problems with writing astartes. They should; they're post-human, as in not human. Aaron Dembski-Bowden actually did some research into a developmental disorder (I want to say autism, but can't remember) in order to accurately portray a marine protagonist, and he got pretty close. So, we need an "in." And the HH series has had those all over the place. So, I'm less upset with the whole "too much Kasper" part. Yes, I'd like to have seen more Russ, but what Russ I saw? It fit my image of Russ to a T, without tweaking too many folks' noses where there might have been a departure from expectations.

 

The second point? The wolf eyes did throw me. The demi-pseudo-muzzle? Not so much. But when you think about the other aberrations in the geneseed other legions dealt with, I can actually see it working, and adding some distinctiveness where there wasn't any before. Heck, it even put the Wulfen a little closer to the surface, which I think is a good thing, done correctly.

 

Not enough Prospero? Alright, from a superficial standpoint: Calling the novel Prospero Burns and then having the book before yours cover it in aching detail and for you its more limited might've been a bit of an oops. But I'd rather have what we had than a rehash of the burning of Prospero. I'd rather have had that time in the Fang, that time watching the Wolves in action against other foes, discussing their place in the Imperium, etc. It developed them in a way that 200 pages of the scouring of Prospero couldn't have.

 

Now, the whole, "No wolves on Fenris" bit, I'll admit, is left a little too wide open. We're not talking about the missing primarchs here. But I think Russ's final words on the matter at the end of the novel work, if we accept that the Canis Helix isn't why the Wulfen occur, but causes them to occur with greater frequency, and that the problem is inherent in the Fenrisian humans due to genigneering by the original settlers and not the Emperor.

 

Wham, bam. It's actually a pretty good book. I actually think he took the right tack. He developed an understanding for the Fenrisian culture, then used that to unlock what a legion based on Fenrisians would be like. And the result is a darker, more visceral legion than the chapter we had with the Ragnar series, which I think is a good thing, because we were starting to get almost as comical as the orks used to be.

[hendrik]

the yellow eyes are also mentioned in the current codex, before that they used to be the mark of the wulfen. The current codex and newer books have really retconned a lot of details

[frostclaw222]

I think the new dex had at least a good number of Dan's notes to rely on. Or someone else can be blamed for the muzzle/eyes stuff. Just sayin.

[hendrik]

as i already mentioned, we've always had space wolves with yellow eyes, but not every space wolf had them. once a battlebrother had succumbed to the wulfen but then managed to regain control over his body his eyes would forever remain yellow instead of the colour they used to be. wolf's honour is as far as i know one of the best books about the curse of the wulfen, how it works etc

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

as i already mentioned, we've always had space wolves with yellow eyes, but not every space wolf had them. once a battlebrother had succumbed to the wulfen but then managed to regain control over his body his eyes would forever remain yellow instead of the colour they used to be. wolf's honour is as far as i know one of the best books about the curse of the wulfen, how it works etc

 

 

maybe the mass creation of the Wolves during that time period led to them being in closer connection with the Wolf inside.

 

the reforms brought around by Guilliman may have "stabilized" the Wolf gene-seed into what we know it today. the slower marine creation process may result in a "diluted" version of the past wolves, as the price of being more "stable"

 

this could explain why the Wolves eye color's have changed as much as they have.

 

WLK

 

(i put alot of "word" in here to show that i am stretching for a way to express what i am thinking)

[hendrik]

but how did guilleman do such a thing? all we know is he asked russ to decrease our numbers. in battle of the fang it's even quite clear bjorn didn't like the fumbling with the geneseed the wolfpriest did, afterall the space wolves needed to stay, just the way russ intended

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

but how did guilleman do such a thing? all we know is he asked russ to decrease our numbers. in battle of the fang it's even quite clear bjorn didn't like the fumbling with the geneseed the wolfpriest did, afterall the space wolves needed to stay, just the way russ intended

 

the Wolves have slowed down the recruitment process as per the Codex. i am merely guesstimating that the new measures of creating Wolves that were introduced had a effect on the gene-seed, slowing down the number of "wulfen" touched marines.

 

bascially, i am strecthing to find ways to connect new and old fluff to make some sense of it.

 

WLK

[frostclaw222]

I think we have to accept that the yellow eyes thing is retconned to the present. Someone could argue that the Wolves are as depicted in the Ragnar series in M41, with Bjorn waking up and cussing about them durn young pups, not knowin respectin their elders and the old ways, but I honestly think the retcon's supposed to come forward, with or without the masks that started this thread.

 

I for one am happier with a darker, more serious VI Legion and the resultant chapter 10,000 years later being darker, too. I'll take the yellow eyes and do something with the masks on a limited basis if it means the Wolves get grittier, visceral, and serious.

 

But that's just me and my two creds.

[MaveriK]

my interpretation of the mask, I know it's not exactly what is described in the book. But for me, it's all about the savagery, and primal core and the intimidation factor each member of the Rout depicts.

I for one am happier with a darker, more serious VI Legion and the resultant chapter 10,000 years later being darker, too. I'll take the yellow eyes and do something with the masks on a limited basis if it means the Wolves get grittier, visceral, and serious.

But that's just me and my two creds.

agreed!

[Kassill]

^ I concur with Mav and Frostclaw. The darker portrayal of the Emperors Executioners is really what the Space Wolves should be imo, and I think Abnett did pretty good (well, so far as I can tell, half way through the book :tu: )

[frostclaw222]

Enjoy it, Kassill. And for the sake of Saint Sabbat, take your time with it. I got all excited and plowed through it, and going back on subsequent readings, I found so much more I'd missed in my haste.

 

Oh, and then go pick up Chris Wraight's follow-up, Battle of the Fang. It's almost like a sequel with a thousand year jump in the middle.

[Wulfebane]

I agree also.. I'd take the leather masked VI legion over today's version any day. It also makes 13th Company players less prominent. I've never much enjoyed the idea of as many 13th players as standard SW players.. and for a while, it felt like a fairly just ratio.

 

Taking a shine to these more visceral Wolves allows for people to keep to standard SW rules/compositions, but aesthetically drop back to a grittier era without adopting the 13th company mythos.

[Eirik_Xenobane]

Let this old long fang have his tnakard's worth of mead on the subject.

 

Everyone has their reason for collecting Space Wolves, hell put ten of us in a room and you'll get 13 reasons for loving these guys! For me it's the Norse aspect of the wolves, I love all tings nordic. My ancestory (like about 70% of the population of Northern England and Norfolk) is norse and I've always been fascinated by their culture, religion and society.

 

2nd ed made the wolves into a hollywood viking army, hell I half-expected them to make power armour with horned helmets at times. Over the course of the hobby the wolves have become more refined, darker and closer to the old norse in mentality and outlook. The Ragnar novels are an example of this being little more than cheesey fan-fic at first (no less enjoyable for all that) and evolving into really good and well-written at the end.

 

Today's wolves are truly awesome (I like to pretend thunderwolves don't exist thankyou very much) and the current codex isvery well written. We have a darker, more predatory more nordic breed of wolf now. The latest imperial armour book doesn't have much on our beloved chapter but what it has is awesome and almost worth buying just for the picture of the battle leader in all his glory.

 

Now we come to Abnet and his book, very underated and misunderstood. The Heresy is supposed to be a much darker, individualistic time when each legion is very much dictated by their Primarch, who happen to be very much alive and directing things. Abnet took this overall theme and applied something to the Wolves that is new, he switched them around!

 

Since 2nd ed and right up to today's offering the wolves are space marines with a norse theme, in efect they took standard marines and turned them into vikings with allot of wolf theme added in.

 

Abnett did the direct opposite, he took Norse warriors and applied a space marine template, damn this guy did his homework and really tapped into the nordic ethos and mindset with his characters and drama. Space Wolves are the living embodiment of einherjar, the fallen of the battlefiled chosen by the all-father to fight by his side at ragnarok and Abnett captures this feel, he captures the superstition and traditions of nordic culture, their pragmatic religion and culture. I really enjoyed the novel.

[Kassill]

Enjoy it, Kassill. And for the sake of Saint Sabbat, take your time with it. I got all excited and plowed through it, and going back on subsequent readings, I found so much more I'd missed in my haste.

 

Oh, and then go pick up Chris Wraight's follow-up, Battle of the Fang. It's almost like a sequel with a thousand year jump in the middle.

 

 

Oh dont worry, I pre-ordered that when it came out. It's sitting beside me on the shelf waiting its turn. ;)

 

 

@Eirik_Xenobane: Very good description brother! :D