Lord Kallozar Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hello all! As everyone as heard by now, it seems as if a Legion dex and possible a renegade/warbands dex will be coming out at some stage. There has been alot of hype and discussion about the Legion dex' but what about the renegade dex? What things would you guys like to see in the renegades/warbands dex? Plus what is your favourite Chaos Warband? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Ohh... I dunno.. Perhaps something about what makes "modern day" loyalists go rouge, some cool tuff like drop pods and land speeders. And some sort of renegadeish razorbacks. Perhaps some fluff about some of the more well known rengades and warbands. And some awesome charaters. If I was to build a renegade list i'd go with Skryars Dark Wolves i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eetion Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hmmm... As for my favorite warband... Red Corsairs...who doesnt love pirates. What should be included? Rogue Tech marines and Apothecaries, Id like to see better psychic powers, the odd chaos equivalent of SM units, Id steer away from renegade land speeders... but corrupted storm shields, thunder hammers and assault cannons... no reapers, whirlwinds as well as a few other pieces of kit backed up by Daemons, but less common daemon weapons and possessed than their Legion counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I could easily see the Renegade/Warband book being an expansion on what is the current book. Maybe drop some of the more ancient gear (Reaper Autocannons) in favor of their current version (Assault Cannons). I could easily see more corrupted current common Loyalist gear (yes, that includes Land Speeeders) but lose out on some of the fancy Daemon Engines we would see in the Legions codex (say, Land Speeders are in, but Blight Drones are out). As for my favorite Warband, that's easy. The Legion of the Setting Eye that I'm currently building and painting. Sons of Dorn who have been Cursed to attempting to changing the Warp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I would like to see a sort of cross between the legion dex and SM. From what I've heard, the renegades dex focuses more on recent traitors so I'd like to see the older gear replaced by newer gear, not so many 'skilled' units (they haven't been waging war for 10,000 or help out in the Great Crusade. Plus they get newer and usually better gear), maybe a limit on Daemonic gear/vehicles to show they haven't been around long enough to earn as much favour from the gods as the legions have. Of course, to make up for this stuff they lose out to the legions, they get better gear and some really cool characters (hopefully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegad3 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I know I've seen some people speculate that they may only get a PDF update or WD codex. I'm not sure if they will make a brand new codex for the renegades. It would be cool though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I know I've seen some people speculate that they may only get a PDF update or WD codex. I'm not sure if they will make a brand new codex for the renegades. It would be cool though! The WD/PDF codecies are usually used as band-aids/place holders till full books can be written up. Or at least, that's how they've been since Blood Angels. Before then was Chapter Approved, which had issues of legitimacy in tournament games. The Blood Angels and Sisters, though, did/do not have that issue, though, and would apply to any future Black Templar or Chaos Renegades that GW may choose to release till a full book is released on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle Redbeard Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Definately a lot of 'modern' gear, limited access to the more powerful chaos aspects (less/weaker daemons; restrictions on things like obliterators, posessed and daemon princes; no or seriously restricted access to cult troops, something like 0-1 cult unit as an elites choice), fewer veterans than either a marine chapter or a traitor legion. If a chapter goes renegade, chances are their numbers would be seriously depleted in the process, meaning if they want to rebuild they'll be stuck with green recruits for a long time. Similarly, if you have a warband of disparate renegade elements, chances are very few loyalist veterans turn renegade with the exception of chapter-wide heresy, so either way they generally wouldn't have the ability to deploy veterans to the same extent. The last point raises another idea of course - Huron Blackheart could of course have a rule allowing for more veterans to represent the resources at his disposal. At any rate, Huron needs a lot of work, since he'd likely be the head honcho in a renegade 'dex. I'd also quite like to see Fabius Bile stuck in the renegade rather than the legions codex, or have him available in both codices. Reason being he doesn't hang with Fulgrim any mo', and probably wouldn't use that many legion marines since their loyalty would generally be to their legion over him. It'd make for an interesting army - Bile unleashing hordes of his human 'experiments' with a core of enhanced renegades and possibly a few legion marines assigned to him in exchange for his services. That strikes me as more of a renegade than a legion army. As for exactly what equipment is available, I figure renegades would have limited access to things like speeders and modern vehicles like whirlwinds, since the only way they'd have them in significant numbers is if entire companies or chapters went renegade at once and managed to keep their armoury maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I would actually think that the Renegades might have more cultists. The reason being is maybe the a Marine or his squad turned Renegade along with the local population of a planet. My prime example is Sergeant Constantinus of the Sons of Gulliman, listed in the 5th Ed CSM Codex on page 19. A second example would be the Red Corsairs because so many of their forces would have to be mortal pirates who carry grudges against the Imperium and are willing to work with them. But personally, I would like to see more of the Punishers listed. I mean here is this Warband that has Three entire Loyalist Chapters who are supposed to be hunting it down and no one knows why. Call me Curious George but I want to know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosen of Chaos Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If they are indeed going to make a new codex for the renegades, they should have access to the majority of C:SM, none of the specialist chaos units (i.e. T-sons, plague marines, etc...), and small group of daemons. I would also like to see Huron (with new rules), and new named hqs. Chosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I have serious doubts about a Renegades codex ever coming into existence. GW has moved away from various divergent "Chapter Approved style" lists, the BA and SoB got WD updates because they were both already existing armies and if memory serves the BA depended on a minidex that referenced a vanilla codex that was replaced so they got a WD list to make their army make sense. As for the SoB, they were using a mid Third Edition codex and got a WD list instead of being phased out altogether because they were never a very popular army for all kinds of reasons. Renegades would essentially be a "new" army being added into the game, and GW doesn't seem to do that except with true full codex books and somehow I don't see them devoting another book to something like renegades, which would probably sell like a xenos army except that it wouldn't even push exclusive model lines instead sharing a bunch of kits with Chaos and being playable by people with already bought Chaos models. I just don't see it happening. Best you guys can probably hope for is that Huron lets you take assault canons or something in the next codex to represent recent renegades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I think any renegade dex is in great danger of just becoming Spikey Marines. The way this could happen most easily is if they get too much loyalist tech. Instead of getting some loyalist tech, I'd like to see them get more alternative tech: stuff newer than what the legions have, but not developed along Admech guidelines. There's lots of room for cool (and risky) Dark Mechanics wargear and units. I hope to also see traitor guard/lost and the damned units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 But that wouldn't make any sense. The Dark Mechanicus is ostensibly comprised of the 1/3 or so of the Mech that turned with Horus during the Heresy, so if anything their tech should be mostly in use by Legions, and I would bet my Chatoic third pinky that the next Chaos codex will have some new Dark Mech silliness and that it will be in a Codex largely referencing/catering to Legions. That said, your "spiky marines" statement is correct I believe, they are spiky marines, and hence they don't really need their own codex, they can just be played by existing marine codices, just add spikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Personally, we don't need both. As others have said, it'll become too much of Spiky Marines, basically just Loyalists with some slightly different colours. If anything, just bring back Hurons old rule of allowing Loyalist gear for a price increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 But that wouldn't make any sense. The Dark Mechanicus is ostensibly comprised of the 1/3 or so of the Mech that turned with Horus during the Heresy, so if anything their tech should be mostly in use by Legions, and I would bet my Chatoic third pinky that the next Chaos codex will have some new Dark Mech silliness and that it will be in a Codex largely referencing/catering to Legions. That said, your "spiky marines" statement is correct I believe, they are spiky marines, and hence they don't really need their own codex, they can just be played by existing marine codices, just add spikes. You are right that the Dark Mechanicus is technically allied with the traitor legions. I should probably have said Corrupted mechanicus, some of which could be Dark Mech. Corrupted Mechanicus would be set free from the restrictions of the ad mech, allowing them to produce some very different sorts of tech. Likewise, I do not think Spikey Marines can be accurately depicted by the loyalist codex, because they no longer follow the Codex Astartes. Their tactics ought to differentiate them a lot. Different sized squads, more specialized units and unorthodox wargear—that sort of thing. The same, they can't be accurately depicted by a proper Traitor Legions codex, because Legionarres should be considerably stronger than more recent renegades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I see you point, and they would certainly be more divergent than say Dark Angels (who don't need their own codex either but I digress) though in practice I don't think there's a major difference other than lossy of ATSKNF perhaps. Reason being is that recent renegades will probably not have had time to develop new tech or adopt new tactics because they haven't been doing the Chaos thing that long. Also nobody takes larger squad sizes anyway because it precludes rhinos so it would be a dead option like it is with Chaos. That said, even recent renegades should probably be allowed Chaos marks, if only the diet ones you get from standards which obviously cannot be done with the vanilla codex, and the CSM codex has heresy tech so it's not a perfect fit, but I just don't see this army selling enough of its own models to warrant dev time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The way I see it, they could do this, make a specific Renegades list for Renegade players who aren't Chaos aligned like say the Soul Drinkers or the Relictors. The current Codex would actually make a perfect list for the Red Corsairs and other Chaos-aligned Renegades with the exception of the mortal soldiers in that it is limited in Daemons and other warp-related capabilities. But it could be better with possible modern weaponry like Razorbacks and Whirlwinds instead of Defilers and maybe even more Land Raider variants. As for those who aren't Chaos-aligned, maybe some sort of SM list that includes some other capabilities. I don't know about what though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Here's what I would like to see: Limits on "high tech" equipment representing the loss of access to forge worlds, chapter forges, etc. This would mean things like assault cannons, speeders, hurricane bolters, sternguard ammo, etc. (Keep in mind that the Badab War is an abberation. Most chapters that go rogue, do so without access to much in the way of resources and lose those quickly.) Significant amounts of veterans to reflect the experienced survivors Use of renegade guard/conscripts/what have you Squad upgrade characters (vet sgts) be Chosen plus to represent the Chaos Gods early favor and to differentiate it from the current Chaos dex. Token rules of some kind, similar to Dark Eldar, to represent army based bonuses for earning "favor" - dunno. Lots of early ideas, not sure how to make them work... Dirty tricks like infiltrate, outflank, and a forced march similar to Wolf scouts, common. The equivalent of "look out, sir!" Something to make them frustrating to play against, without putting them over the top and that reward play skill over hot dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That's actually some pretty good ideas. But the Astral Claws lost a lot of equipment when they escaped because they escaped in a single strike cruiser. They've had to completely rebuild their forces inside the Maelstrom which would be tricky since the Word Bearers have control of the only KNOWN forge-world inside of the Maelstrom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Here's what I would like to see: Limits on "high tech" equipment representing the loss of access to forge worlds, chapter forges, etc. This would mean things like assault cannons, speeders, hurricane bolters, sternguard ammo, etc. (Keep in mind that the Badab War is an abberation. Most chapters that go rogue, do so without access to much in the way of resources and lose those quickly.) Significant amounts of veterans to reflect the experienced survivors Use of renegade guard/conscripts/what have you Squad upgrade characters (vet sgts) be Chosen plus to represent the Chaos Gods early favor and to differentiate it from the current Chaos dex. Token rules of some kind, similar to Dark Eldar, to represent army based bonuses for earning "favor" - dunno. Lots of early ideas, not sure how to make them work... Dirty tricks like infiltrate, outflank, and a forced march similar to Wolf scouts, common. The equivalent of "look out, sir!" Something to make them frustrating to play against, without putting them over the top and that reward play skill over hot dice. So, in other words, basically what a Legions codex shoul look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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