I don't like the deployment phase

[Skywards]

@ Vantius, I think whilst it's good that Space Wolves can have access to 33pt basic terminators, the true strength in WG TDA squads is in their versatility as Grey Mage pointed out.

 

When you can add a few combi-meltas and wolf claws (re-roll TH or TW? Love it! plus claws just seem more wolfey :D ) they become SO much more useful and can reliably tackle vehicles as well as infantry. I'd second Grey Mage again that adding a storm shield on a cheap model to soak up to take the inevitable Lascannon or high AP shots that'll inevitably come flying towards the squad, can really, really help their survivability.

 

I've played around with (and really enjoyed) running a WG Terminator squad equipped like this:

3 x WG TDA with Combi-Melta and Wolf Claw

1 x WG TDA with Storm Shield & Power Weapon

1 x WG TDA with Chainfist & Assault Cannon

 

Comes to a fairly hefty (but not unreasonable) 255pts in a Drop Pod. If the squad can take out a single high-value vehicle when they land (and with 3 x melta & 4 x rending S6 shots that's a high probability even against AV14) they can easily make back close to their points.

 

Far more importantly though, and perhaps more usefully on a tactical level, is that they become a presence that your opponent can't afford to ignore (particularly when they have just dropped into his or her deployment zone on Turn 1), and if your opponent then brings a lot of firepower to bear on them it means they aren't shooting those guns at your advancing Grey Hunters in Rhinos.

 

Additionally if your WG Termie squad *does* survive the enemies shooting phase (or if they choose to assault them) then they can tear up MEQ and small elite units in close combat, with 12 PW attacks on the charge (or counter-charge), 9 of which can reroll TH or TW, and 3 Chainfist attacks there's not much they can't put a serious dent in.

[Niiai]

Having just read through the post of grey mage here I must say I am impressed by the idea of not using wolf guards.

 

While the scouts are lacking a second melta, that is worth a secind dreadnought. I always planed on using wolf guards as a trippel melta sueside unit, as a way to chack upen the number of drop pods (by having 6 man pods) and as a way to put the HQ in a drop pod. (A nine man drop pod.) By the adition of quick claws you can put him on a bike.

 

I am thinking of making a list for the 1750 point turnament now. As far as I can see there are a lott of space marines involved. Not a bad matchup for a drop pod list I think.

[Niiai]

Grey Mage, I have really been thinking about this these last few days and it seems really interesting. It seems for each army list I put together I am learning more and more. (I was coming drop a tradition with small Grey Hunters packs with a wolf guard in a razorback with long fang backup and landspeeders.) I can -REALY- how keeping the grey hunters trimmed with a meltagun and spescial weapon at 170 points really slim down the points. (I used to pay an ekstra 8 points for a combi melta and ekstra leadership.) It also leaves up one of the elite slots.

 

(Edit: I am askping publiky to share this information with the others even though this very well could be a personal message.)

 

However I have some questions in your lists I do not understand:

 

1: Do you play a lott or marines as you prefer power weapon over mark of the wulfen? (I would asume that mark was better vs transports etc.)

 

2: Would not 5 points more on the plasma squad giving you mark of the wulfen and a powerweapon be better then a powerfist? The fist only swings for one attack, 2 if you make your leadership test, while the net outcome of power weapon + rending just seems better. (I have not math hammered it vs dreadnoughts and/or MC's.)

 

3: How good is tempest wrath/storm caler? While I understand that you can have both up at the same time (cast one in your turn and the other in the oponents turn. If you are vs eldar flying circus atempts to cast tempest wrath 2 times) But would not the wolf priest be better? Granting your swift claws rerolls (espesialy the fist unit) just seems better. And you get a 4+ save (while loosing wounding vs daemons and psykick defense.)

 

4: At 1750 points, how many pods would you runn? I am putting together lists with 5 and 6 pods quite easaly, but 7 pods just seems hard because I would be sending them out wihouth mutch backup. (Unless I double long fangs with pods witch seems odd to drop 2 emty pods...)

 

5: Where the heck do one stick the HQ? The Grey Hunters are to cramped in the drop pod. So far I can think of:

 

Wolf Guard: Expensive witchever way I look at it. (Even taking 4 in TDA with combi weaponds and putting an assault cannon in a 8 man grey hunter unit is so exspensive!)

Wolf Scouts: Good with saga of the hunter if they do not lose the behind enemy lines and decent with regular outflank.

Sky Claws: Cute but poor mans Swiftclaw (turbo boost, +1 in thoughnes, and twin linked bolters yes please)

Swiftclaws: Good but you need to get many of them, and your long fangs will lose one rocket launcher for each one you take.

Long Fangs: Cool if you like tossing living lightning around but it is a bit dull to use your runepriest here.

Thunderwolf Riders: More agressive then swift claws (you get rending) but they are not as fast and the wolf cost 10 points more then a bike.

My goofy favoret: Put him on a jump pack with a shield, run him solo and runn from cover to cover hunting small units.

[Grey Mage]

1) Marines are not an uncommon opponent in my area, but I simply dont like the unreliability of rending in the close combat phase. I find that against Eldar, Necrons and Tau- who along with orks are my most common xenos enemies and show up regularly- their good armor saves (4+ or better) just need a bit more punch than MotW will give me. Against most transports I find that krak grenades to the rear armor are just as good if not better than MotW.

 

2) It would if they were meant to be an assault force, but thats not how I use them. My plasma packs annihilate people in the shooting phase if at all possible, and hold ground. As such I need to be prepared for anything, wich includes the odd dreadnaught or IC. A powerfist, even one with limited attacks, is simply more of a garaunteed threat versus those units that are going to trouble them most. The Meltapacks on the other hand are already equiped to destroy vehicles at range, so I prefer to give them the PW so they can assault the contents of transports and give them an edge versus infantry. Its all about balance.

 

3) I usually dont play with of them up actually- because they both have to be cast at the begining of the rune priests turn. I have them for the option- against fast moving armies like tau, eldar, DE and BA I use tempests wrath, against firepower armies like IG, Necrons and even devastator heavy marines I use stormcaller to help keep my boys alive. *shrugs* Its not uncommon for me to forgo stormcaller for living lightning of murderous hurricane- Im just not a fan of Jaws.

 

That being said I dont find a Wolf Priest is better- the Bloodclaws get the job done more often than not anyways, and theyre usually one of the last ones into a fight versus a hard target because theyre job is mobile reserve, not get stuck in. They bail out my GH packs or dreadnaughts on a regular basis, but at that point the enemy is -hopefully- weakened enough that I just need to give it a bit more oomph.

 

The Rune Priests psychic defense is incredibly important to me in a game involving Grey Knights, Eldar and Blood Angels, let alone Tyranids- and these are all fairly common opponents. Nothing like shutting down 3/4 of a GK players psychic phase to help take back the initiative.

 

4) At 1750 I would usually run 7 pods, but I wouldnt feel bad about running five IF they have enough support. That being said, dropping empty pods from the longfangs will give you more tactical options and occaisionally save your bacon in the late game as you drop pods in to contest objectives- or allowing you to delay extra squads to keep your heavy hitters in reserve.

 

Also, it depends on if your group allows Deathstorm pods or not. My group allows FW rules every couple of weeks just for a change of pace and I find those little buggers to be very useful, and further help the pod count (since they come in at the base price of a GH pack). Any time I take those I add two to the number of pods I expect to field in my force just because they are so cheap.

[Niiai]

It is just that I have some exelent MotW conversions. (at least in my mind). A were wolf like head, and choping of a gloved space marine hand, replacing it with a genestealer hand. (Not a clawed one but the one with the slender long nails.)

[Grey Mage]

*nods* Its not the clearest of choices and itll depend on your local meta for a straightforward decision in my experience. If you like MotW in your rhino-mounted squads and theyre working for you then I dont see any reason to change for DPing forces. I just find they dont preform as well for me as that reliable armor negation on days when my dice arent up to their normal lucky streaks.

[Niiai]

Aha, lucky streaks, that's the diference. ;-)

 

I do agree that power weaponds sounds sound. I am not so sold on the fists, but I will think about it.

[Grey Mage]

Well and if nothing else its something I learned playing eldar- if you dont have to give your opponent an armor save, dont. Theres no point in giving him a chance to fight back eh? Annihilation is always a victory condition, and even when Im busy securing objectives its always foremost in my mind.

[Vor]

First, I've only read the first page. Didn't have time for 2 and 3, so sorry if I'm missing anything others have said. Wanted to add my views on one of Grey Mages points before I forget.

 

I agree very much with this views about Grey Hunters and pods. Though I do differ slightly in the views on HQs. I often run 6 GH squads in pods, and while 4 of them will be kitted out as cheaply as I can (either two melta, or two plasma guns - it's very rare I will add a SCCW or a wolfen for example) the other two are 9 man units with one special weapon and a 230+ point close combat Wolf Lord attatched. I'm not 100% sure of the makeup, I've been playing WHFB recently over 40k, but I think it's: Runic armour, storm shield, frost weapon, necklace and then one with melta bombs to give them different wargear. One will run with Bear and the other with Warrior. This combination has proved utterly brutal in the games I've played it in.

 

One game I ran another 30 Skyclaws on top of the 60 marines in the pods, but that was in a campaign so I had an extra 250 points for free. Wouldn't really run 90 PA marines in a normal game.

[Vantius]

First, I've only read the first page. Didn't have time for 2 and 3, so sorry if I'm missing anything others have said. Wanted to add my views on one of Grey Mages points before I forget.

 

I agree very much with this views about Grey Hunters and pods. Though I do differ slightly in the views on HQs. I often run 6 GH squads in pods, and while 4 of them will be kitted out as cheaply as I can (either two melta, or two plasma guns - it's very rare I will add a SCCW or a wolfen for example) the other two are 9 man units with one special weapon and a 230+ point close combat Wolf Lord attatched. I'm not 100% sure of the makeup, I've been playing WHFB recently over 40k, but I think it's: Runic armour, storm shield, frost weapon, necklace and then one with melta bombs to give them different wargear. One will run with Bear and the other with Warrior. This combination has proved utterly brutal in the games I've played it in.

 

One game I ran another 30 Skyclaws on top of the 60 marines in the pods, but that was in a campaign so I had an extra 250 points for free. Wouldn't really run 90 PA marines in a normal game.

 

So do you not bring any other units other than hunters?