Bran Redmaw

[eyeslikethunder]

i must have missed that part in prospero burns, could you cite or give a page to make sure you're not refering to just fenrisian wolves?

 

I think they are fenrisian wolves but it does hint that they are failed aspriants

note that the constant struggle against the wulfen is a struggle every wulf has constantly! if bran would turn wulfen every 5 seconds it doesn't make him as strong headed as we though, in fact, it would mean his willpower and control over the inner wolf is really below par...

Depends whether he still has control or not of both the change and the wolf within

[xPeRt]

Quoting Wolf Lord Bulveye

 

"War Within, War Without, War Unending"

 

I like to think that you could learn to control the full rage of the Wulfen but as far as turning to Wolf/Man then back is out of the question.

[Ghent]

Definitely is an interesting option. How are you able to outflank with the WG in term gear? Because he's a "grey hunter" once he joins the unit?

 

I'm newer to 40k. I'm assuming Forge World dudes are legal guys to play?

[eyeslikethunder]

At tournament no their not normally legal among friends/LGS yes but its rumoured that GW intend to fully legalise them in 6th ed. Also IA11 indicates whats legal in 40k and what is legal for apocalpse acording to previous poster.

[Hfran Morkai]

I think a problem is we're not quite sure what the Wufen are.

 

I seem to have memories of the 13th Company being a shock Wulfen company (where those that succumbed to the curse were assigned to) but can't think for the life of me where this came from and being a Company would indicate some sort of control.

 

Knowing me thats just my own mind though.

[hendrik]

i believe in wolfs honour it's stated that the wulfen always require the guidance of a priest to keep them from going completly feral. note this is supported by the wulfen their rules.

[skoll]

i think some of you guys are too caught up on this "team jacob" thing, what do you fear? Why dont you associate werewolves with the lycans from underworld, surely those are kick ass bunch you'd be proud to be a part off.

there's a big difference between a wulfen and a werewolf from my point of view:

 

wulfen

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/space%20wolf%20artwork/tammikwulfenpack.jpg

 

and:

 

werewolf

http://blog.80millionmoviesfree.com/wp-con...the-wolfman.jpg

 

a wulfen becomes a mindless beserker, losing control to the inner wolf and undergoing chainges that extend his hands and nails into claws and somewhat change his face etc. it's a bit like semi werewolf at it's worst in my opinion. note that not a single wulfen is ever mentioned to grow so much his complete armour gives away! in fact every wulfen marine still wears his armour. if PA can't handle it i'm pretty sure the wolf lord would just take terminator armour instead. it will hold....

 

what does forgeworld do, they make a character that shapeshifts into a complete werewolf (i've yet to wait for the model but i'm pretty sure it'll be similar to what i posted...) while losing his armour and everything.

 

 

the second problem: the curse of the wulfen isn't a good or i want to be a wulfen-thing.once a marine turns wulfen he goes beserk, friend or foe, he'll attack them all. in the novel wolf's honour we have a wolf guard battle leader turning wulfen and only the voice of his wolf lord i believe can calm him down enough to shackle the inner wolf again.

 

now what did forgeworld do? shapeshifting bran goes wulfen all the time,almost as if he's mastered the curse to work at his will. sure it's an explanation but i don't see it happening that easy.

 

the way i see it is that the author didn't research the curse of the wulfen enough and instead just went with the easy way: lets make a gaint werewolf!

 

I believe in the ragnar novels, ragnar mentions his dreams of wolfen as a man with a wolf head. Then the blood claws turn into wolfen in one of the last few books and besides mention of the glowing yellow eyes it doesnt say much about their physical appearance . BUt I can see the curse progression morphing the SW more and more into a werewolf , from the depiction you see, kinda like the red thirst eventually gives birth to the black rage.....also :cuss if mephiston a run of the mill librarian can overcome the black rage why can our wolf lords control the curse of the wulfen?

[Wulf Vengis]

i must have missed that part in prospero burns, could you cite or give a page to make sure you're not refering to just fenrisian wolves?

 

as for the battle in the fang. as you said he was fighting the 1000th sons and note he hadn't turned wulfen completly yet! in a last effort to save his packmembers he orders them to flee because he knows what will happen once the wulfen takes over completly.

 

note that the constant struggle against the wulfen is a struggle every wulf has constantly! if bran would turn wulfen every 5 seconds it doesn't make him as strong headed as we though, in fact, it would mean his willpower and control over the inner wolf is really below par...

 

Prospero Burns pg 370

He (Hawser) saw the wolf.

Half-saw it. It was just a shadow. A wolf-shaped shadow. A shadow-shaped wolf. Vast and ominous, like a blood-dark midnight sky; spectral and malevolent like the final whispered curses of a dying lunatic.

Eada was wearing armor before this in this specific scene but its mysteriously gone?

 

pg 371

The almost-wolf had something in its jaws...

Read on a bit here and still no armor strange no?

 

pg 374

"It was Eada that was touched by the maleficarum."

Helwintr to Hawser. Indicating that demonic invasion of the mind can cause the slip as a last form of defense perhaps?

 

pgs 374-375

The ragged, pained breathing slowly became a deeper, panting, huffing noise. He heard skin and sinew stretching, he heard the phlegmy click and gurgle of cartledge and joint fluid. He heard bones protesting as they deformed, and organs bubble and slosh as they realigned. He heard the stfled agony of something enduring extreme physical transmutation.

Pretty decent description of a rapid transformation to me.

 

pg 375

The almost-wolf that had been Eada Haelfwulf roared in frustrated pain.

 

pg 375

...the almost-wolf was twice the size of the Astartes.

 

pg 376

It swung its massive snout around to face Hawser... All Hawser could see was the shadow of it, lika piece of night cut out and pasted onto daylight. At the heart of darkness, the huge teeth glimmered like icicles.

No descriptors here except for big teeth.

 

pg 377

He looked out at Hawser and the wolves, imploring, ashamed, knowing what he had done, what he had BEEN. Clear fluid, viscous, wept from his nose, mouth and tear ducts, matting his beard and drying like glue on his bare flesh.

Emphasis by me.

 

pg 378

"A little of Eada Haelfwulf yet remains," he said... "Too late," said Ogvai.

Wyrdmake to Ogvai about Eadas "humanity".

 

Apparently Haelfwulf saw a vision during his transformation. He reveals to Ogvai that Horus will cease to exsist as the wolves know him. However no one really takes this premonition seriously as the Rout dont trust their brothers who fall so thoroughly to the Wolf within. Yet they have an entire Great Company of Wulfen at this point in "future-history", the 13th company is all Wulfen lead by Jorrin Bloodfang.

 

OK so I stand corrected, the beast was described as an "almost-wolf", but it also shows that Eada Haelfwulf reverted back to a human form.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I believe in the ragnar novels, ragnar mentions his dreams of wolfen as a man with a wolf head. Then the blood claws turn into wolfen in one of the last few books and besides mention of the glowing yellow eyes it doesnt say much about their physical appearance . BUt I can see the curse progression morphing the SW more and more into a werewolf , from the depiction you see, kinda like the red thirst eventually gives birth to the black rage.....also :cuss if mephiston a run of the mill librarian can overcome the black rage why can our wolf lords control the curse of the wulfen?

 

Not sure why folks are seeing this as black or white. I see many possible variations of control and visual appearance of the curse being manifested. From the beast within being controlled by the space wolf to provide more strength and power while engaged in battle to losing control but not quite "looking out of control, to looking more like a man-beast in power armor, to being total wolf "American Werewolf in London" style.

[Wulf Vengis]

I kind of imagined the "almost-wolf" of Eada to be like the American werewolf in london appearance. very lupine, no humanoid features left, and no identifiers to mark him as once being human. Just as I imagine the wulfen from Wolfs Honor to appear more akin to the old Wulfen models or The Wolfman style of appearance. Something that is still somewhat "human" inside somewhere fighting to regain control.

[eyeslikethunder]

Not sure why folks are seeing this as black or white. I see many possible variations of control and visual appearance of the curse being manifested. From the beast within being controlled by the space wolf to provide more strength and power while engaged in battle to losing control but not quite "looking out of control, to looking more like a man-beast in power armor, to being total wolf "American Werewolf in London" style.

 

 

Thats how i saw rags. i think the ragnar books hint at this as well

[Wysten]

To be honest, considering thats a Wolf Lord is already an exceptional warrior, whats to say he couldn't have a degree of mastery unusial for a Space Wolf? That the Alpha male of the pack actually becomes the Alpha male of the pack. XD But really I don't see too much a problem in that aside of things.

 

The real question is, where the hell do they find all this artifacter armour from? You would have throught they would have just given him scout armour or a Loncloth by now and tell him to live with it. XD

 

If he does become real, that would be pretty cool. I find him fairly interesting and unique without that reek of Caius about him.

[Nadir]

The real question is, where the hell do they find all this artifacter armour from? You would have throught they would have just given him scout armour or a Loncloth by now and tell him to live with it. XD

 

If it is artificer = covered with runes = magical. It could change form with it's bearer, like in Werewolf RPG, when cloth are 'magicaly' merge with skin and fur.

[Wysten]

The real question is, where the hell do they find all this artifacter armour from? You would have throught they would have just given him scout armour or a Loncloth by now and tell him to live with it. XD

 

If it is artificer = covered with runes = magical. It could change form with it's bearer, like in Werewolf RPG, when cloth are 'magicaly' merge with skin and fur.

It doesn't sound very 40K though, that kind of level of personal influence sounds like the kinds of magic the god of plotting would use. Just sounds a little wierd.

[hendrik]

bursting out of his armour sounds logical if it's such a huge change . what i find the most annoying is the changing back between his forms and that FW is now slowly making the curse of the wulfen a thing one doesn't need to fear. afterall, what's to fear? you'll be losing your human features, the same could happen by becoming a dreadnought or end up recieving extensive bionics. one of the things that makes the curse so scary is you won't be able to make a difference between your friends or foe anymore. your saga would be stained by blood of your own brothers, a terrible burden to bear.

[Nadir]

It doesn't sound very 40K though, that kind of level of personal influence sounds like the kinds of magic the god of plotting would use. Just sounds a little wierd.

Agreed:)

And I don't like the idea of changing again into a 'normal' marine from the full wulfen/ wolf beast form. But still I like the rules of Bran, it fits my idea for a wolf lord. It's the only way to have a lord with Saga of the Hunter. And those scouting or hiding in the bushes GH...

[Wysten]

It doesn't sound very 40K though, that kind of level of personal influence sounds like the kinds of magic the god of plotting would use. Just sounds a little wierd.

Agreed:)

And I don't like the idea of changing again into a 'normal' marine from the full wulfen/ wolf beast form. But still I like the rules of Bran, it fits my idea for a wolf lord. It's the only way to have a lord with Saga of the Hunter. And those scouting or hiding in the bushes GH...

 

Aye, to be fair, I can forgive his turning of the wolven by simply having him only play an active part in a battle in a blue moon. Calling the shots and organising the battle, then on the odd occation when things need his attention, he drops down organises everything with a degree of perfection then kicks arse, and the Wolf Priest spends the next week trying to track the wolf lord down while he's fighting as Russ intended. Feet on the ground, starknaked, generally kicking all sorts of arse for the allfather..

[Wulf Vengis]

No magic armor. Dont make me hurt you Nadir :P

 

Changing back doesnt seem to be the real issue here as Ragnar and crew reverted back. However I think that to revert back one must regain control, or be beaten into unconciousness as Eada Haelfwulf was finally subdued, reverted, shackled and questioned. I also figure that a priest would be needed to reclaim full control (over body and mind) and to convince the man within the beast to return to the fore and assuage the beast back into slumber within the soul or mind (or whatever).

 

the Wolf Priest spends the next week trying to track the wolf lord down while he's fighting as Russ intended. Feet on the ground, starknaked, generally kicking all sorts of arse for the allfather..

Agreed. This is essentially how I picture the outcome of Brans hunt. His company would stay behind either in orbit or on the surface whilst the scouts, wolf guard and priests (both types) would hunt down Bran and make sure he either regained control of his own accord or to assist him in regaining that control.

[Valerian]

I think a problem is we're not quite sure what the Wufen are.

 

I seem to have memories of the 13th Company being a shock Wulfen company (where those that succumbed to the curse were assigned to) but can't think for the life of me where this came from and being a Company would indicate some sort of control.

 

Knowing me thats just my own mind though.

 

Children of the Night: The Space Wolves 13th Company

 

 

Origins

 

Legend states that, many centuries ago, the Space Wolves numbered 13 Great Companies. To this day, a place is reserved at the feasts held in the Hall of the Great Wolf

 

for a Lord who has not attended his liege since the time Russ himself led his sons into battle. Tales of this Company are vague and often contradictory, but one fact

 

is known: the men of the 13th Great Company were marked apart from the rest of their Chapter, for every one of them bore the Curse of the Wulfen.

 

The origins of the 13th Great Company lie in the dawn of the Age of the Imperium, when the Primarchs were reunited with the Emperor and their Legions. The Space Wolves,

 

the 6th Legion, were the genetic progeny of Russ and carried within them a unique gift: the Canis Helix, the Mark of the Wolf that sets the Space Wolves apart from the

 

Space Marines of other Chapters. The Canis Helix invests the Space Wolves with the acute predatory senses of the wolves native to their home world of Fenris, but

 

this gift comes at a price: the Curse of the Wulfen. Those brothers who succumb to the Curse degenerate into savage, malformed parodies of their brethren. In most

 

cases, the Curse manifests during training, but in others, the effects of the Curse become apparent many years later in the heat of battle. The Space Wolves' harsh

 

induction regime generally ensures that these individuals perish at an early stage in the process. However, at the time of the Great Crusade, when the Emperor and his

 

Legions were conquering vast swathes of the galaxy in the name of Mankind, those brothers touched by the Curse were banded together into the 13th Company, where their

 

feral ferocity could be brought to bear en masse and contained for the safety of the whole Legion.

 

 

From the Saga of Jorin Bloodfang

 

 

In time, the ranks of the 6th Legion

swelled to a great host.

 

And many bore the Mark

[FRAGMENT MISSING]

 

And so Russ banded them all into

one Great Company.

 

And to Bloodfang fell the honor

Of leading them to laurels and glory

In the name of Russ and the

All Father.

 

Bloodfang named [FRAGMENT MISSING]

Grail, Orkbane, Sigurd, Thorbrand,

and Grafield.

 

To each a retinue was granted.

 

And as a band of brothers the

13th Great Company

Reaved across the stars.

 

Neither xenite, or Apostate,

nor Fiend

Could stand before [FRAGMENT MISSING]

the Were was upon them.

 

But at the Gates of [FRAGMENT MISSING]

did Bloodfang rage

And plunge headlong into

[FRAGMENT MISSING]

Neither kin nor Master could

restrain him.

 

And beyond the Gates did the

Wulfen-kind pass.

 

At Asaheim, the Wolves did cry for

one hundred nights

To mourn the passage of their kin.

 

Valerian

[Valerian]

And:

 

Tales are told of a thirteenth Great Company whose Wolf Lord took as his sign the pelt of the Wulfen, the legendary spirit of evil whose curse can still turn Space Wolves into monsters of that name. This Wolf Lord, his name has been lost to the ages, said that he could overcome anything, even the curse of the Wulfen, and that was why he took it as his totem. His hubris cost him dear; the Great Company vanished into the Eye of Terror during the Horus Heresy, and none know of its fate. Since then the Space Wolves have traditionally considered the number thirteen unlucky and a portent of bad omen.

 

- WD 246 Wolves of Fenris article

 

And:

 

The Wulfen

 

These fragmented pieces of text have been excerpted from Dionerius' Rise of Man, M31

 

 

...Among them were companies of savage creatures, their bestiality far outstripping even the barbaric Children of Russ. By the Space Wolves these were called the Wulfen, at times spoken of as the thirteenth company. They were feral of eye and febrile in nature, strong of limb and blanched by savage tattoos, able to tear a man asunder with their clawed hands and fangs. Eschewing weapons of distance they would stalk their foes as wild beasts, slinking in the shadows and hunting by night 'neath the light of the full moon. Variously, captains say the Wulfen were led by Hirkon Grail or Jorin Bloodfang, maybe when one was slain another took his place.

 

Fragment II

 

 

Now in the aftermath of the Siege of Terra there was a great confusion among the loyal followers of the Emperor, for they had lost their liege lord and were as knights without their king. [[Text lost]] Many voiced loud the thought in the hearts of all - give chase to the traitors and destroy them utterly for the woe they had wrought. The voice of Russ was raised loudest of all, [[Text lost]] but Guilliman and Dorn gainsaid his counsel. To enter the Occularis Terriblis would bring disorder on the surviving Legions, they said, leaving Man vulnerable to both the xenite and the apostate. It is said that Russ, as was so often the way, took his own counsel and sent forth the Wulfen to hunt down Abaddon and his followers. Others say that the thirteenth company pursued the heretics of their own accord, as hounds at the chase who heed not the calls of their huntsman. Others still maintain that the Wulfen had been tainted by the Dark Gods and were summoned by their call to join the traitor legions in the netherworld.

 

Fragment III

 

 

The Wulfen were never seen nor heard of again, passing into the void and becoming lost to the eye and ear of Man. It is said that upon the Space Wolves homeworld of Fenris the loss of the Wulfen was known by the wolves of Asaheim. The great packs gathered before the gates of the Space Wolves monastery in their thousands until every wolf in the world was there. That grey host howled of their loss for a hundred nights before returning to the hinterlands.

 

- WD 245 Lone Wolves article

 

V

[hendrik]

No magic armor. Dont make me hurt you Nadir :)

 

Changing back doesnt seem to be the real issue here as Ragnar and crew reverted back.

note that ragnar didn't go complete wulfen. those that did were unable to return and even ragnar stayed marked

[Wulf Vengis]

Yet theres no further mention of his claws or eye color in the rest of the book.

[Aeddon]

I'm not sure that the Ragnar books are a good referance for this since that instance was heavily influenced using chaos powers.

[hendrik]

Yet theres no further mention of his claws or eye color in the rest of the book.

his eyes are mnetioned in the rest of the book, in fact :

 

The young space wolf paid Haegr no mind, staring instead at the huge wolf-men patrolling around them. 'They're all wolf-bitten' he said,'even Thorvald. He has the mark of the wulfen in his eyes.'

...

(then Ragnar questions their purpose and loyalty)

The older wolfblade rose abruptly to his feet.' Besides, we're not exactly unblemished ourselves.' Ragnar watched, bemused as Torin stalked away. Haegr shook his head and rose to lumber after his long-time friend. The young space wolf turned to Gabriella, a questioning look on his face. "What did Torin mean by that?' The navigator looked at Ragnar for a long moment, and then reached out and lightly touched his cheek. 'It's your eyes,' she said, a weary sadness in her voice, 'they're yellow-gold now, just like Torvald's.'

 

and then there's the scene at the end of the book where sigurd takes of his helmet and it is specifically mentioned he still has those yellow eyes...

[Wulf Vengis]

Yet theres no further mention of his claws or eye color in the rest of the book.

his eyes are mnetioned in the rest of the book, in fact :

 

The young space wolf paid Haegr no mind, staring instead at the huge wolf-men patrolling around them. 'They're all wolf-bitten' he said,'even Thorvald. He has the mark of the wulfen in his eyes.'

...

(then Ragnar questions their purpose and loyalty)

The older wolfblade rose abruptly to his feet.' Besides, we're not exactly unblemished ourselves.' Ragnar watched, bemused as Torin stalked away. Haegr shook his head and rose to lumber after his long-time friend. The young space wolf turned to Gabriella, a questioning look on his face. "What did Torin mean by that?' The navigator looked at Ragnar for a long moment, and then reached out and lightly touched his cheek. 'It's your eyes,' she said, a weary sadness in her voice, 'they're yellow-gold now, just like Torvald's.'

 

and then there's the scene at the end of the book where sigurd takes of his helmet and it is specifically mentioned he still has those yellow eyes...

Touche, I stand corrected.