MTMK15 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Personally, now that my Mordrak/Paladin idea failed, a Grand Master seemed like the next best choice for a HQ. But looking at his stats, he's pretty darn good just the way he is. The question is, should I give him some equipment? Servo-skulls, for one, are rather tempting. I'm also intending to play an army with an abundance of psycannons that advances towards the enemies so that my CC units can wreck intense havoc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Servo-skulls are great if you plan to do any deep striking. His grenade options are very good as well. Rad, Blind and Psychostroke grenades can really mess with your enemy. As for weapons, I pretty much always let him keep his Nemesis force sword, as that turns his Iron Halo in to a 3+ invulnerable save in close combat, as he can be singled out in close combat and without Eternal Warrior that save can be a life saver. With his natural I5, I think the Halberd is less needed. I usually don't go for the Psycannon option as I find it too expensive on the Grand Master, but I do sometimes take the Incinerator, which is a very cheap upgrade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTMK15 Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 Thanks for the advice. Also, btw, would Dreadnoughts be a good anti-vehicular option for GK since they don't have fast meltas or Preds that can run LCs ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Dreadnoughts with 2 autocannon arms and psybolt ammunition, also know als Psyfleman or Psy-rifleman Dreads, can shoot 4 48" ranged twin-linked S8 AP4 shots on the move, which makes for great anti AV10-12, which is why they're a popular choice. The Dreads pop the transports so you can assault the goodies inside. Psycannons also make for a very good anti vehicle option, especially since they're widely available in the Grey Knights army. We do have some fast melta btw: Stormravens, and Dreadnoughts with a multi-melta embarked on a Stormraven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnImA8 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 As you've pointed out, the GM by himself is pretty beastly. So work out the kinks in your army first, and then with any remaining points figure out what you want to do with your GM. Personally I like having Batman lead my army, so I give him the utility belt with Blind Grenades and Rad Grenades. But again that's only after having worked out the rest of my army. If you really want to go all out, an Incinerator is not bad, and Servo-Skulls are solid if you like the flexibility in your deployment options. -AnImA8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Beyond servo skulls, giving him psychotroke grenades never hurts. Still have a few points to burn? (What's wrong with you?! :P ) Throw rad grenades into the mix as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I go with incinerator, rad, blind, psychotroke and a sword. I have plenty of mystics in my army, so I have no need for skulls :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTMK15 Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 Psycannons also make for a very good anti vehicle option, especially since they're widely available in the Grey Knights army But Psycannons are only Strength 7 and boosted to 8 with psybots. I can score plenty of glancing hits I suppose but only a pen hit on Vindi's or Preds on rolls of 5+ We do have some fast melta btw: Stormravens, and Dreadnoughts with a multi-melta embarked on a Stormraven. A bit pricey for fast meltas. They're intended to be suicide units most of the time. Dreadnoughts are 115pts a pop :blink: And I have completed my list but after all I've read, I'm convinced my list is crap http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=244071 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnImA8 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Psybolt ammunition doesn't boost Psycannons. And even at strength 7, with Rending they're capable of wounding the best Monstrous Creatures or penetrating the toughest armor. And HEY! Don't be so hard on yourself. Show some conviction! Your knights will never make it to enemy lines if their own general doesn't even have faith in them right? The people here are experts in the field, and we'll help you fine tune your list :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTMK15 Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 Thank you very much ^.^ And yes, I forgot completely about the Rending rule. My SM list spams Autocannons so I kept on thinking that Psycannons are just like Autocannons with assault :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I usually field Inquisitors but when I do field a Grand Master I give him rad, blind and psystroke makes him 210 points which is not that bad considering how much damage he can deal with a squad attached. Sometimes I give him a master crafted daemon hammer as well. Never bothered with his shooting upgrades though, not his role in the army anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2950970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Keep the sword, 3+ invul is awesome. As others have said, weigh up the grenade options, if you can take all three (psychostroke is more for hilarity though) Incinerator is always fun, and its dirt-cheap Servo-skulls if you're trying to make 'Summoning' work, or running a Deepstrike-heavy army DO NOT WANT listing (ie never ever ever take these) - Psycannon: At that price, nope - Orbital Relay: Tech-Marines can maybe afford to stand around doing nothing and can soak the cost (they're cheap to begin with). GM can't afford to sit still wasting his grenades, and like with psycannon it inflates your price immensely. - Daemonhammer: You have I5, need I say more? This is why Mordrak is so dumb as a hero - Mastery Level 2: There is virtually no scenario where you'd want two powers from his guy anyway, plus its insanely expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2951018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddonshand Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I think rads and psychos are practically mandatory for GMs, after that season to taste, with sword or halberd (my own preference, I just love seeing the look on people's faces at the thought of an I7 space marine) and incinerator if so inclined (again as I am :P) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2951021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTMK15 Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 Daemonhammer: You have I5, need I say more? This is why Mordrak is so dumb as a hero Agreed on this point and incinerator if so inclined It's incredibly tempting but I think I'll take my chances with the Storm Bolter since I'm out of points for the upgrades To round it off, I have decided to take Rad grenades Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2951072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 - Daemonhammer: You have I5, need I say more? This is why Mordrak is so dumb as a hero Except that this is the only way to get a hammer into Mordrak's unit shy of burning another HQ slot or devoting an upgraded Techmarine to get one. Also, Mordrak does let you accurately deep strike anywhere you like on turn 1. All in all, he's a decent specialist character. Nobody thinks he's fit for every list, of course. But he does have his uses, and him coming with the hammer is actually part of the package. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2951814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 - Daemonhammer: You have I5, need I say more? This is why Mordrak is so dumb as a hero Except that this is the only way to get a hammer into Mordrak's unit ... Pretty sure any Ghost Knight can take a Hammer, or Halberd, or whatever; they just can't take special ranged weapons. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2951845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Yep. "Any model may replace his Nemesis force sword with...Daemon hammer." My Grandmaster always has rad, blind, and psychotroke; they are essential to my plans. I just keep the sword for the stormshield equivalent in CC. I enjoy using servo skulls, but typically take them for 3 points each from different sources. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2951881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTMK15 Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 I actually did want to take Mordrak once (although I think giving a HQ wif I5 a hammer to reduce his I is rather silly) because I thought I can use him and his ability to Deep Strike Paladins down w/o scatter. Then I realizes he's not an Independant Character so I can't do that. I have taken Rad and Pyschistroke 'nades and 2 Servo Skulls. The GM's power sword is really great already so I'm not changing that. I gave him an Incinerator for the lolz Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2952200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 - Daemonhammer: You have I5, need I say more? This is why Mordrak is so dumb as a hero Except that this is the only way to get a hammer into Mordrak's unit ... Pretty sure any Ghost Knight can take a Hammer, or Halberd, or whatever; they just can't take special ranged weapons. V >.< No, you're right. I always make this mistake ... when it's the psycannon they can't take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2952390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 It's incredibly tempting but I think I'll take my chances with the Storm Bolter since I'm out of points for the upgrades To round it off, I have decided to take Rad grenades Fair enough. Rad is nice, but if you don't roll 1's much psychostroke is flat out insane. 'Hammerhand' can usually make up for rad anyway, if you double cast from GM and the squad he's with. Except that this is the only way to get a hammer into Mordrak's unit shy of burning another HQ slot or devoting an upgraded Techmarine to get one. Nope, they can all be I1 if you wish. Which, when you're paying a huge premium for them in the first place, might not be the best idea. Also, Mordrak does let you accurately deep strike anywhere you like on turn 1. Him+1 other character, who must also wear TDA. I guess if you bring a naked Librarian with teleport homer, you might have the semblance of an Alpha Strike list happening (ie use 'Communion' to get friendly Terminators in Troops to land next to you in support on Turn 2). Still not really what I'd call cost-effective, but eh. All in all, he's a decent specialist character. Nobody thinks he's fit for every list, of course. But he does have his uses, and him coming with the hammer is actually part of the package. He specialises in going dead last in combat and evaporating his bodyguard unit if he dies (remember, no ET). Considering how awesome our generic characters for HQ are (and, being that they're all expensive, you kinda can only pick one in most games), Mordrak looks decidedly weaksauce. Hammers belong on unsnipeable squad members, not expensive non-Eternal characters. I actually did want to take Mordrak once (although I think giving a HQ wif I5 a hammer to reduce his I is rather silly) because I thought I can use him and his ability to Deep Strike Paladins down w/o scatter. Then I realizes he's not an Independant Character so I can't do that. And yet, just like with Crowe, there is a simple fix. Give him IC status, make his Ghost Knights a separate unit he can join or leave (or deploy separately from), bang. He goes from 'sigh why am I paying 400pts for Turn 1 landing' to 'holy god why are Paladins in my backyard Turn 1'. Maybe a bit OP, but nobody thought to restrain Matt when he made Draigo and PaladinStars, so at least it would be consistent. >.< No, you're right. I always make this mistake ... when it's the psycannon they can't take. Which is like kicking a man when he's down. Srsly, how could his dead brotherhood not have a single guy with a psycannon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2952931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Also, Mordrak does let you accurately deep strike anywhere you like on turn 1. Him+1 other character, who must also wear TDA. I guess if you bring a naked Librarian with teleport homer, you might have the semblance of an Alpha Strike list happening (ie use 'Communion' to get friendly Terminators in Troops to land next to you in support on Turn 2). Still not really what I'd call cost-effective, but eh. Not just a naked Librarian, but a naked Librarian with Warp Rift. Throw a Template can opener on some of your opponent's vehicles on turn 1. :) It can be effective, but its 600 points of your army in one unit- I hope you're playing a huge game! B) Hammers belong on unsnipeable squad members, not expensive non-Eternal characters. But you seem to be missing the point- Mordrak isn't an IC. Therefore, he isn't "snipeable." Mordrak only takes wounds when the whole squad is taking wounds or when you purposefully put wounds on him to try and create more Ghosts, and that makes him decidedly more survivable and easily worth his points if he fits with your army list and play style. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2952936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I think, however, that if the 6th Edition rumors on being able assault directly out of a Deep Strike come to fruition, Mordrak and his Ghost Knights will go from 'meh' to 'hell yeah!'. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2952987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTMK15 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 'Hammerhand' can usually make up for rad anyway, if you double cast from GM and the squad he's with. I was thinking what's better than ensuring people die. Rads + Hammerhands. The Rads are a backup in the unlikely event the Hammerhand casting fails. Not to mention Strength 6 against Strength 3 (o 2) allows my GKs to go all berserk on the opponents men Give him IC status, make his Ghost Knights a separate unit he can join or leave Mordrak doesn't have IC status. At all. He isn't an IC (A damn shame since I really wanted to do the Paladin 10-man deathstar arriving behind enemy lines) if the 6th Edition rumors on being able assault directly out of a Deep Strike come to fruition, Mordrak and his Ghost Knights will go from 'meh' to 'hell yeah!'. That would indeed turn them into the ultimate surprise unit. Forget Vanguard Veterans Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2953414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 'Hammerhand' can usually make up for rad anyway, if you double cast from GM and the squad he's with. I was thinking what's better than ensuring people die. Rads + Hammerhands. The Rads are a backup in the unlikely event the Hammerhand casting fails. Not to mention Strength 6 against Strength 3 (o 2) allows my GKs to go all berserk on the opponents men Strength 6 against Toughness 4 means you will wound your opponent on a 2+; there is nothing better than that, so there are no additional advantages, really, to knocking that Toughness down to a 3 with Rad grenades. Only reason to take Rad is for insurance in case you fail a psychic test, or your power gets blocked; you just have to figure out for yourself if the insurance is worth the 15 points. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2953418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Rad grenades + S6 = instant death versus T4 multi wound units such as nobs It's great in mirror matches versus Paladins. G :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244069-should-i-kit-out-my-grand-master/#findComment-2953466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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