Nova Tournament and Doublewing

[Nightrunner]

Hey guys,

 

I'm a newbe in the world of Ravenwing and Deathwing, but after taking the plunge a month ago I have a large pile of sprues waiting to go for a tournament in February.

 

It is a Nova-style event (three objectives each round, you have to win on Primary, then it goes to Secondary in the case of a tie, then tertiary then straight VPs).

 

The three objective types are a "search-and destroy" (but with VPs, not Kill-points) and two different objective missions.

 

Now, I have done my very best to absorb as much info from tacticas and batreps since the FAQ (and before!) so my question isn't so much about "What makes a competitive list".

 

More, with this setting, are there any DA players that have taken Doublewing or largely Ravenwing forces to this type of event and have any advice about list-building and general tactics?

 

For example, at 2000pts, I would usually try and include one or two MM AB's via Ravenwing squadrons. However, I am normally conscious of kill-points. In this setting, kill-points are moot, so the easy kill of a MM attack bike is suddenly less of a concern.

 

If anyone has any thoughts on this, please chip in and let me know!

 

Thanks in advance, all

 

NR ;)

[krewl]

I'd say Doublewing can be a nice fit in a nova settting that ignores killpoints, as killpoints is the mayor handicap for ravenwing, while my experience with RW points that you can play them well and win on VP's. Especially 2000 points would b a great ammount tio fill up your troops and take sufficient support.

 

I've played doublewing in 4th (Before kilpoints) and Ravenwing (same) and thy here quite a bit challenged (Though still very much playable) by the lack of over 24" guns.

 

The new FAQ helps a lot in that aspct as it will allow you 3 solo typhoon speeders and 3 CML's on the deathwing units so you'd have 6 x 2 Missile shots at more range.

 

I'd go for;

 

Belial (TH&SS)

Sammy (I'd suggest the jetbike, AV14 doesn't help much vs the anti tank in 2k points.)

5 DW 5 x TH&SS, CML, Banner, Apothecary

5 DW, 2x TH&SS, Chainfist, CML, normal sarge

5 DW, 2x TH&SS, Chainfist, CML, normal sarge

3 RAS, Apothecary, plasmapistol, powersword, meltabomb, 2 x plasmagun, MM attackbike

3 RAS, Apothecary, powersword, meltabomb, , 2 x meltagun, MM attackbike

3 RAS, Apothecary, powersword, meltabomb, , 2 x meltagun, MM attackbike

3 x solo Landspeeder typhoon, Multimelta

 

(If I'm correct this is 2000 spot on)

 

Quite a lot of points in upgrades here, but sadly the DA codex doesn't really give you nice smal units you can add or give you the option of ading one more terminator to spend an extra 40/50 points on.

 

I'd love to hear from any experiences you have with suchs a list. Feel free to swap a unit of RAS to a unit of Deathwing, thats pretty easily done scapping those extra points spend on nilly upgrades and dropping a RAS Squad.

[egon1six]

@krewl: You do know we can only have one apothecary in a RAS

[Nightrunner]

Thanks for the posts.

 

I have a rather similar setup in mind for my double wing, krewl (and had Sammy on his speeder too!) so thanks for the thoughts!

 

I had already noted Krewl's liberal use of Apothecaries. Cheeky! :-)

 

Do you think that, with a Victory points setting, spamming smaller units for double melta and multi-melta spam is a better option or that it would be better to have a few large units (e.g Deathwing command and Belial; Ravenwing full command squad) to make the most of holding onto larger chunks of victory points for both the mission where VPs are used in place of kill points as primary, as well as where I have to capture table quarters by having greater points values in them?

 

Thoughts?

 

NR:nuke:

[breng77]

It really depends on the mission setup. If like the actual NOVA, victory points are used for things like holding table quarters and troops are always worth full points, then large squads can help. If not there is really no advantage to larger squads (especially Ravenwing squads.)

[krewl]

@krewl: You do know we can only have one apothecary in a RAS

Thats a copy paste error, if you check you'll note the points work out for just one in the plasma squad :lol:

But yes, my bad.

 

I would go for multiple smaller units maximising the nr of units you can target and the at the same time maximising the ammount of targets your enemy has to target. I find 3 more bikers for a ful squad are just not worth it. 20 more points and you can get another unit and load up some more special weapons.

 

Regarding the bigger point blocks, try to use sammy and terminator units centrallised to move into quarters as is needed and use turbobosts on any surviving bikers to tip the balance and claim/contest objectives. In short, I'd rather have more ability to damage my opponent then I'd like to try and use RW as a supertough dos not die unit to conserve VP's. They are not paladins, they could pull that trick off. YOur Belila and commnd squad can do so in a less over the top matter. Ravenwing even with T5 die to often to use as a VP conservation trick. Also, those points don't add killing power to your list, just a slight bit of survivabilty compaired to say another scoring unit.

 

If you need VP conservation a bit more I'd suggest an army with 4 termie squads who you play mid field for quarters in a mutually supporting block, that is very hard to remove. Bikers are just not made for that.

[RayJ]

Deathwing based armies (with either mech or RW support) work very well in NOVA-style events for a couple of reasons, but the army will play out identically almost every time to take full advantage of the scoring system.

 

NOVA provides armies that win consistently but by low margins to excel where normally tournaments are won by armies that swing big in the win/loss department. Dark Angels are just such an army. When played properly, they are in the game to the last, even when losing. Most of my tournament wins have been come-from-behind victories based on knowing just how durable each unit is and properly maximizing my use of the deployment and movement phases. If you are not good at these two phases of the game, you will lose most of your games with DA.

 

Your terminators are extremely durable and pack a decent ranged element to hinder enemy transports. They don't move fast, but in NOVA, you only need to cover one of the four Golden Triangles (the area between any 3 close objectives) and use that to spread out for objective grabbing in the mid to late game.

 

Bikes provide your interference and strong anti-tank capabilities, and are one of the best tools for leading the opponent into traps during movement & deployment. Heck, the combination of scouting bikes and deathwing assault force your opponent into conservative strategies for deployment when going first because of your ability to capitalize on mistakes. Using reserves properly when you go first pushes the same pressure on the opponent, even with 60-80% of your army already sitting on the table.

 

An army weighted towards terminators over bikes has a huge leg up in the kill-point war, especially in NOVA. Each of your units never has to worry about breaking from shooting. Even bikes can be utilized in close combat against certain armies (usually xenos/ig) to control the flow of the game.

 

For Victory Points, in a losing game, you will still be denying your opponent full points on most squads. Your bikes are easy for the opponent to eliminate, but Terminators once again have an amazing amount of durability. I often finish games with 3 of my squads down to one or two models, giving my opponent only half victory points for the final tie breaker. For holding quarters, Scoring Units use their full value, so each Terminator squad is worth it's full ~250 points down to the last man. It's hard to argue against them, to be honest.

 

Krewl's list is pretty nice, but I would definitely go for the 4/2 split of terminators to bikes, and definitely run Sammael in his speeder. The jetbike is definitely useful, but the speeder is extremely efficient.

 

Usually I would play without Sammael, but if you want to run that many bikes and speeders, he is mandatory, and it still works. Mostly a playstyle preference.

 

Basically, DW/RW suck for battlepoint based tournaments (can be done, but you have to massively outplay the field), and are fairly on par with the top books in NOVA, but ONLY if you can master movement & deployment. GK, Necrons, and DE all have a level of anti-infantry firepower that can be bewildering, so you need to learn how to screen, to skirt enemy firing ranges, and limit LOS while maintaining an offensive mindset. Fully utilize your terminators' offensive capabilities in shooting and assault. Use assaults to gain extra movement to compensate for low speeds. Overwhelm units with multiple assaults and maintain local superiority.

 

Keep the bulk of your army in the Golden Triangle, and use the command squad to reach out to the opponent and contest.

 

NOVA will make DA seem extremely powerful if you can pull all of that off. It's hard to do it right every game, even after playing it for 4+ years, but it is very rewarding. It can drain on you a lot though, having to be so precise in your actions and mapping out all 7 turns at the start. Then remapping to compensate for the actions of the opponent. lack of forsight loses games though.

 

Bonus is, if you can consistently win with DA like this, you can faceroll most opponents by picking up one of the easier to play tournament armies. DE are amazing to watch when you use movement to its fullest. I'm having a blast with them as my 2nd army right now :blush: