A D-B Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Please God let his fight with Sigismund be in the novel. Too early. Though... Hm. Hmmmmmm. No. No spoilers for you. But didn't he say that Butchers Nails is a lead up to the next HH book? He did. Uh, I mean, I did. They don't need to retcon, they can either create new instances in which Khârn turned on the Legion or simply show how his mind becomes detached from things like brotherhood. Let's be honest, it'd be weird (and, dare I say, pointless) to retcon something so major. But unless ADB has actually said "Khârn is in the book" then I think it will cover someone else. I've said it follows on directly from Aurelian and Butcher's Nails, and for the record, I listed the characters in Butcher's Nails in this linky-link: http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/20...on-suggestions/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2952776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Khârn fought Sigismund? I didn't know that, was it during the Siege of the Emperor's Palace? Is Uzas any indication of how a Khorne-'afflicted' Khârn might act, the 'on' and 'off' periods, the 'Khorne-Mode' getting precedence...or is Khârn a more dire case of just embracing the Blood God and making due with the 'normal' parts? The short story with the Thousand Sons and World Eaters in Age of Darkness shows us a normal Khârn that goes into berzerker mode, but seeing as some time passes between it and Betrayer (I assume), and to each writer his portrayal, it remains to be seen if you follow the switch-mode pattern. I guess the different portrayal of berzerkers only goes so far, as 'your' Angron in Aurelian shows. An hyperviolent person - especially one who is not shy of that aspect - will almost always be an obnoxious jerk (and the World Eaters, for the most part, are so). Khârn, however, has been shown to be somewhat skilled with words and diplomacy, as well as very much aware of his nature and the advantages of managing it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2952794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cod Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Awesome! Looking forward to this very much now. This would be a 2012 release? Still have Butchers Nails to be released first yet and get my teeth into. Awesome thought too for a writer to actively give out info as well! Oh Khârn, what kind of 'betrayer' will you turn out to be? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2952803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Maybe it'll have Horus and Khârn in it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2952858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Please God let his fight with Sigismund be in the novel. Too early. Though... Hm. Hmmmmmm. No. No spoilers for you. You're a cruel, cruel man. Now I need to know more! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2952882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Maybe it'll have Horus and Khârn in it... I sure hope not. Horus is much like a Goldfish when compared to Khârn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2952943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Horus is much like a Goldfish when compared to Khârn. I don't get it. B) Are you saying he's a small fry? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2952946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgard Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 If the Word Bearers are in it, as per A D-B's blog (unless I am misunderstanding the character list), does it mean that it might have to do with Calth, told from the Word Bearers' viewpoint? I seem to recall that World Eaters were also supposedly at Calth (although I don't remember from where). Could it be essentially a sequel to "The First Heretic" and "Aurelian" (the non-flashback parts thereof)? If so, I wonder if "Know No Fear" may shed some light on the World Eaters' participation in the Battle of Calth. Which would be interesting to read about, considering one revelation in "Aurelian" dealing with just what Lorgar was trying to accomplish at Calth... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Let's be honest, it'd be weird (and, dare I say, pointless) to retcon something so major. When's that ever been an issue with 40K? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I seem to recall that World Eaters were also supposedly at Calth (although I don't remember from where). Part of the Ultramarines short story in Age of Darkness? Iirc that was a simulation, much like the rogue Salamanders a little later on in the same short story. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Khârn fought Sigismund? I didn't know that Neither did I (but it is possible I have missed some sources). Methinks that may come from sources describing that Khârn was first "killed" in the fighting on Terra, while other sources describe that Sigismund killed a lot of Chaos champions on Terra. Though I recall the sources describing Khârn being found on a mountaion of slain foes, which does not fit the one-on-one fights attribited to Sigismund. Edit: I do remember Khârn beating up both Loken and Torgaddon at the same time, though... Khârn is one of my favourite 40K characters. I dunno how I would feel about a story showing his inner thoughts and a lot of dialogue. ;) I think I'd prefer if it was mainly about him tearing stuff up and people being scared :cussless by just hearing his name uttered... Though some context for stuff being torn up and people freaking out about name drops would be nice... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgard Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I seem to recall that World Eaters were also supposedly at Calth (although I don't remember from where). Part of the Ultramarines short story in Age of Darkness? Iirc that was a simulation, much like the rogue Salamanders a little later on in the same short story. I think I recall it from earlier fluff, long before the anthology, but I cannot confirm. I will need to check my copy of "The First Heretic" to see if it mentions World Eaters as supporting the Word Bearers at Calth, or at least having some companies there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Khârn fought Sigismund? I didn't know that Neither did I (but it is possible I have missed some sources). Methinks that may come from sources describing that Khârn was first "killed" in the fighting on Terra, while other sources describe that Sigismund killed a lot of Chaos champions on Terra. Though I recall the sources describing Khârn being found on a mountaion of slain foes, which does not fit the one-on-one fights attribited to Sigismund. I think it's a case of people adding two and two and getting five. They were both there, but I've heard nary a peep of either squaring off against the other... ;) Maybe this'll be the book where they do get to face-off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 As ever I cannot wait for an AD-B book, Horus was known as the Arch-Betrayer but this feels more like a Khârn/World Eaters book. The information about the World Eaters being at Calth is pretty new I believe, in Aurelian Horus tells Lorgar that the World Eaters will go with him . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Well, as one who has the "Eight astartes taken before the Emperor by Malcador", on the brain. I hope the Betrayer is Masa Varren, the World Eater companion of Garro, who survives Arngron's Body guards sent to kill him. Would be nice to finally get some light shed on him. Though i wont hold my breath on this one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Legs it's kind of funny how wary you are about authors expanding on characters now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Unfortunately "expanding" often means "taking them into a completely different direction", or even outright "retcon". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Maybe it'll have Horus and Khârn in it... I remember that short story "Khârn the Betrayer" which was in this ancient WD. In the story it was mentioned that Horus personally gave this device to Khârn which was sort of like a "murder count" thing which would give a number of the amount of people Khârn killed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I believe it's also in various short story compilations. The name of the short story was The Wrath of Khârn, the author was Bill King. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2953999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 That was the story I meant, just mixed up the names! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2954050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I can't wait to meet the hyper intellectual autodidactic Khârn who was a martial arts teacher on Terra and has to war in his own mind between the implants and his noble self. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2954097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodanshi Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The Wrath of Khârn, the author was Bill King. :) Man alive, the whole 40K IP is an absolute goldmine for hilarious puns! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2954127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Please God let his fight with Sigismund be in the novel. I'm surprised you weren't pushing for the HLoT to be the reason for the title :P Khârn fought Sigismund? I didn't know that, was it during the Siege of the Emperor's Palace? I would really love for a quote about Sigismund pwning Khârn. *Looks around hopefully at other B&Cites*.... Legs it's kind of funny how wary you are about authors expanding on characters now. Some dudes don't even like the HH series, despite it being BLs best series and superior to any 5th ed. fluff. It is more juicy than an IA article too. So.... yeah. Once something has been said by GW as 'so', then people will hold it up to be 'so' ever more. However, even GW doesn't hold up its work as Gospel Truth. Witness C:Newcrons. Interesting that Legatus, for example, isn't frustrated that UM went from a third founding Chapter into the Space Marine Legion and Chapter that holds sway over 40K and all other Primarchs and Chapters live on in Roboute & Son's shadow. But that in itself was a retcon of the highest order. What I am basically saying is, dudes hold out that X is the 'so' even when GW has clearly moved on from that. Things they don't like are 'retcons' or various frustrations, but not being mindful that Fantasy genres are very mutable in the eyes of the authors if the author gets a bee in their bonnet about something. Leman Russ went from some Imperial Commander, to a Primarch acting like a jerk [Lion and the Wolf] to smokescreen'ing wise fellow hiding it under a front of Barbarism [HH series]. Things get changed to suit the authors, who are trying to put together the best story they can. Which I appreciate intellectually and also from an enjoyment perspective :tu: Or the outrage that C:SW didn't have LR tanks in it anymore. Yeah, it's a naughty thing GW did in having SW players buy something and then making it illegal, 100% But SW players thought it was fluffy that they had access to a tank whose only real connection was a name. Imagine the outrage of the community if Roboute's middle name was Baneblade.... Oh so it's not fluffy when others get something that isn't really connected to them, but it is in 'my' case? Mmmhmmm. Basically, if 'I' like it, it is real 40K, and if 'I' don't like it, it's not real 40K. :P Sorry to use you Legatus as an example ;) In another case, for example, someone was getting frustrated that Fire Warriors might be getting special weapons in the squad in the coming C:Tau, whereas they had specific fluff saying this was the role of Crisis Suits. But this dude was happy for the FW to have a gun drone attached to the squad. Which is all moving ball and cups, really. Technically the fluff had not been broken, even if the spirit had. We all have our idea of what Y is, and hold onto it dearly. :D +++ I am looking forwards to a Dorn & Sons dedicated HH novel, for sure. And then another one [or two] for The Scouring series :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2954150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I don't think the IFs will get their own book. Just be the loyalist perspective in a novel predominantly about the traitors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2954152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I don't think the IFs will get their own book. Just be the loyalist perspective in a novel predominantly about the traitors. I think you are right :devil: I had imagined this as an opportunity for GW to flesh out the Chapters/Legions. After all, Sals, IH, RG and WS are all pretty light on fluff compared to SW, DA and BA. But in the rush to Terra, I fear such a golden opportunity will be missed. IF are crucial to the HH, but look to be bit players scattered throughout various books. Boo! Dorn was a buddy to Perturabo. Dorn, and Guilliman, were esteemed by Horus, who looked to them for advice and as a sounding board. Dorn was appointed Imperial Warmaster after Horus went bad. Dorn has so much potential.... Do we need to skip all this to rush to the present day 'Jaundiced Ultramarines' [as described by a former IF player]....? *sighs* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244119-betrayer/page/2/#findComment-2954261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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