Wolf Lord designs

[Araith]

Because I had nothing better to do (or rather, nothing better I wanted to do) in the train this morning, here are some designs for our Wolf Lords. I probably got inspired to write this because of FW's new rules for Bran Redmaw. I like how they end up comparing with other designs on the forum, like those of Fenris Kid of last summer.

 

I wonder what you think of these designs.

 

 

Engir Krakendoom - 250 points

Unit Type: Infantry Composition: 1 (Unique)

terminator armour the Kraken axe harpoon launcher wolf tooth necklace wolf tail talisman Belt of Russ Saga of the Beastslayer

ATSKNF Acute Senses Counter-attack Independent Character Company of the Navigator

• The Kraken axe: An axe crafted from the jawbone of a kraken slain by Engir, fashioned in the style of Fenris' southern seafarers' long axes. The axe is a power weapon that hits with +2 Strength.
   
  
• Harpoon launcher: this launcher can chuck harpoons with heads of jagged kraken-bone, with the following profile. Range: 12" - Strength: 6 - AP: 4 - Assault 1, Rending
   
  
• Company of the Navigator: In an army that includes Engir Krakendoom all Tanks can treat clear terrain as roads. In addition one Swiftclaw pack gains the Scouts universal special rule.
  

Terminator armour because he specialises in boarding actions among other things. On the other hand, it could just be made an option as well. Then again, the big-ass harpoon launcher I came up with would not fit so well with power armour (too big and heavy a weapon I'd assume).

The axe I first intended to make S7, to make him really good at killing MCs, but I thought that might be too much. What do you think?

 

Here you also see how I disagree with how Krakendoom is often set up as a bike lord. He uses swiftclaws as outriders; why would the warlord join the outriders instead of lead the main force? Especially with how he seems to be particularly suited to taking out the biggest and meanest foe they're going to come across, and how he's said to specialise in brutal boarding actions (no room for bikes there), I rather see him like this: a leader who goes straight into the thick of it.

 

 

Egil Iron Wolf - 230 points

Unit Type: Infantry Composition: 1 Wolf Lord (Unique)

terminator armour power fist storm bolter wolf tooth necklace wolf tail talisman Belt of Russ Saga of the Iron Wolf

ATSKNF Acute Senses Counter-attack Independent Character Feel No Pain Packs of the Iron Wolf *Land Raider* (needs name)

• Packs of the Iron Wolf: While Egil tears up the opponent with his heavy tanks, he's known to send roving packs of transport vehicles to cut off the enemy's escape. In an army that includes Egil Iron Wolf, all Rhino's gain the ability to outflank (see the Reserves mission special rule).
   
  
• *Land Raider": Egil usually leads the assault in his own personalised Land Raider. If you include Egil Iron Wolf in the army, you may include one Land Raider (of any available pattern) as his dedicated transport - and that of any unit he is deployed with. This Land Raider costs an additional 70 points over its normal cost, but has its Ballistic Skill upgraded to 5, gains a 5+ invulnerable save and can ignore Shaken and Stunned results.
  

I've considered giving him T5, but I prefer feel no pain to represent bionics. The fist is also a specific choice with his bionics theme. He literally has a metal hand.

The terminator armour is there to encourage putting him in a Land Raider.

 

 

Sven Bloodhowl - 210 points

Unit Type: Infantry Composition: 1 Wolf Lord (Unique)

power armour thunder hammer combi-flamer frag and krak grenades wolf tooth necklace wolf tail talisman Belt of Russ Saga of the Warrior Born

ATSKNF Acute Senses Counter-attack Independent Character Fire Breathers

• Fire Breathers: Sven's vanguard is known to spit fire into the ranks of their foes before closing in for the kill. During deployment, nominate one pack of Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, Skyclaws or Wolf Guards as the vanguard. This unit must either be deployed during deployment or must be deployed from reserves in turn 1. In the initial round of any combat, before any normal attacks are made, all enemy models in base contact with this vanguard unit suffer a Strength 3 hit.
  

Too bad he's described as using a thunder hammer (at least on one occasion); I think a pair of wolf claws would befit him very well.

Terminator armour could be made an option for him.

 

I'd also consider allowing him to turn himself into a walking conflagration. Haven't worked that out though.

 

 

Kjarl Grimblood - 220 points

Unit Type: Infantry Composition: 1 Wolf Lord (Unique)

runic armour wolf claw flamer frag and krak grenades wolf tooth necklace wolf tail talisman Belt of Russ Saga of the Gifted

ATSKNF Acute Senses Counter-attack Independent Character Company of the Fire Wolves

• Saga of the Gifted: It is said that Kjarl Grimblood has the Gift, that he can see the future in the flames. During deployment, at the roll-off to decide who may choose to go first or second, you may re-roll your dice if you have included Kjarl Grimblood in your army.
   
  
• Company of the Fire Wolves: In an army that includes Kjarl Grimblood all flamers, heavy flamers and flamestorm cannons count as twin-linked.
  

The wolf claw is a semi-random pick for him; I chose it mostly because a frost blade looks out of place with his fire theme and I want him to have better than a basic power weapon.

I've given him runic armour to accentuate his mystic side.

[Forté]

Got a few missing there :D

 

Good work still though.

[Araith]

Smartass. :) Could only finish four before I got home.

 

Any thoughts about the various design choices in particular?

[Forté]

It's mainly Bjorn and Bran that have appealed to me so the others are still pretty new to me.

[Araith]

Okay then... what do you think Bjorn would look like?

 

When I think of Bjorn I think of terminator armour with thunder hammer, storm shield and the saga of the bear. Apart from that I never really know what further rules might nail down the character of his great company. Fenris Kid's idea of allowing vindicators to be taken in squadrons sounds appealing though.

[Forté]

That's pretty much what I've been thinking but more tempted to go with a Chainfist and Frost Weapon over the TH & SS. Partly for the flexibility on initiative but also for a menacing mini. WTT and WTN are must haves too.

 

From the rumours around about 6th ed, it may be possible to swap out fast/troop slots for more heavy which would fit. In Apoc games you just take advantage of Linebreaker squadrons ;)

 

Oh....and don't forget the 'no scouts or saga of the hunter' at all!

[Brother Kirus]

I think that Egil should have thunderhammer and a combo-melta.

[Araith]

Regarding Bjorn, that weapon combination could indeed make for an intimidating model. It being a special character also gives the opportunity to make it an affordable combination by not charging full for both weapons.

The restriction on scouts or the saga of the Hunter isn't necessary in my opinion. Without characters giving more units the ability to outflank (like half of those other Lords I designed) there's only a marginal few units with the ability in the Space Wolves codex. And even Bjorn's great company will include some scouts and might very well have a more hunter-style hero among its ranks. They'd be exceptions and I'd say that's good enough. What do you say?

 

As regards Egil, what's your reasoning for thunder hammer and combi-melta, brother Kirus?

I'll explain mine. The power fist came to mind because as a metal hand it suited the idea of a man more of metal than flesh. The storm bolter then I included as basically the standard gun for a suit of terminator armour, having no better idea.

[hendrik]

i actually think egil should have runic armour, why? just so he can pop out of the hatch, swinging his weapons while shouting "drive me closer" just like in the motivational picture ;)

[Forté]

May be worth checking the Bjorn Stormwolf entry in your Codex. He's put down as considering scouting as 'whelp work' and is famed for his loud, intimidating frontal assaults. Scouts and sneaking has no place in that tactic at all.

[Araith]

All the same, he might not place much or any value in scouting, but if some of the brothers in his great company happen to be touched by Lokyar, what are they to do? Restrain themselves in packs where they'll never really have their place? Leave the brotherhood of Stormwolf's company? Or be and do what suits them despite the little value their warlord places in that, perhaps in hopes that some of Bjorn's lieutenants places more value in their skills?

I preferred the old fluff of scouts not belonging to any one great company, but rather sleeping in the great hall, but in the new codex a place in a great company they must have.

[Beef]

They all seem well balanced to me, initially i thoughth the str6 power weapon was to much but then realised relic blades are st6

[Eirik_Xenobane]

Company of the Navigator: In an army that includes Engir Krakendoom all Tanks can treat clear terrain as roads.

 

While Egil tears up the opponent with his heavy tanks, he's known to send roving packs of transport vehicles to cut off the enemy's escape. In an army that includes Egil Iron Wolf, all Rhino's gain the ability to outflank (see the Reserves mission special rule).

 

These two rules are way overpowered. especialy the rhino outflanking thing. You've created 4 characters but made it so that one is so insanely beneficial that the others become essentialy pointless. here's my suggestion:

 

Company of the Navigator: All vehicles can re-roll failed dificult terrain tests

 

All tanks in an army that includes Egil Ironwlf have extra armour at no additional cost.

 

Useful upgrades that are not overpowered and fit the theme of the individual wolf lords.

[hendrik]

These two rules are way overpowered. especialy the rhino outflanking thing. You've created 4 characters but made it so that one is so insanely beneficial that the others become essentialy pointless. here's my suggestion:

 

Company of the Navigator: All vehicles can re-roll failed dificult terrain tests

 

All tanks in an army that includes Egil Ironwlf have extra armour at no additional cost.

 

Useful upgrades that are not overpowered and fit the theme of the individual wolf lords.

i don't think they are overpowered actually, heck taking a bike on your standard space marine captain can make bikes troops i believe, necrons get a guy that can make the game night fighting for 3 turns with a bit of luck etc.

they point cost might become a bit more for it though, but overpowered? hardly

 

if you would change them however i would still keep the outflanking and only hange the roads way. make it make all vehicles fast instead ;)

 

thinking of it; making all vehicles fast might be a thing for egil, it would certainly allow a more aggresive vehicle attack

[Forté]

Now that's scary Hendrik.

[Skarvald the Troll-faced]

Eh. Not too sure about outflanking or fast Rhinos. Being able to outflank with Rhinos is too good. A character like him would be an auto-include in any list. Seriously.. need to be scaled down. Maybe one Outflanking Rhino?

Egil Iron Wolf

Free Extra Armour for all vehicles is also crazy. You can easily fit 10 vehicles in an average Space Wolves army. That's 150 points you do not have to spend. Maybe limit the list to actual Heavy Support vehicles - Predators, Vindicators, Razorbacks and Land Raiders. Whirlwinds too.

How about also allowing Egil to field Leman Russ Exterminators as a Heavy Support choice?

As for the name of his Land Raider, I can't find it right now.. but there was a piece of fluff about a Wolf that's huge and made out of iron and now stands as a mountain on Fenris. He had a name but I can't think of it right now.

 

Sven Bloodhowl

He would never pick Blood Claws or Skyclaws as his vanguard.... ;O

It would have been cool if he had a chanfist with a built-in combi-flamer and if he destroyed a vehicle with it every model inside takes a flamer hit, because he incinerated them as soon as he wrecked the vehicle.

[hendrik]

how about if grimblood makes his grey hunters red hunters instead to represent their way with fire. as a boost any red hunter is also armed with defensive grenades (representing them spitting fire while they get charged)

 

edit:fuzzy mind from studying, wrong wolf lord

[Araith]

Discussion is starting up, I like it.

 

Hendrik, the company with the red hunters is Grimblood's. They seem to have a focus on flame weaponry, which is why I made Kjarl make all flame weaponry twin-linked. That should encourage one to take flamers in Grey Hunter packs.

 

They all seem well balanced to me, initially i thoughth the str6 power weapon was to much but then realised relic blades are st6

You thought S6 was overpowered, and there I was originally considering S7. ^^

 

 

Engir Krakendoom

 

The idea of making open ground count as roads for vehicles is one I originally came up with for the apocalypse formation I wrote for his great company a while back, inspired by the Armoured Fist formation for Chimeras. The formation charges 25 pts for three Chimeras and 50 for 10. I've charged 40 points for Engir.

 

The ability is powerful, as it allows for a very rapid advance, I agree with that. But overpowered? Blood Angel Rhino-chassis vehicles are all fast, which is far superior to roads. Roads only allows for an extra 6" when moving at cruising speed; fast vehicles also get to fire their weapons when moving 6-12". For tanks that's actually useful, and even for transports it's a useful improvement if you want to fire from the hatch. Since this better ability was granted codex-wide to the Blood Angels I don't think roads is overpowered; it just needs to be priced right.

 

Eirik's alternative of re-rolling dangerous terrain tests (Eirik, you said difficult, but I assume you mean dangerous) also has a ring to it. It should also be priced right, but I don't think it's overpowered either. To me the main question is, which rule befits Engir more? Faster movement across open ground, or better access to difficult terrain?

Personally I lean towards the former.

 

Egil

 

As regards whether outflanking Rhinos are overpowered, in the Codex: Space Marines the character Kor'sarro Khan gives the entire army the ability to outflank. Of course for that they give up Combat Tactics, and that makes its value hard to nail down in a points value*, but the character himself hasn't proven horribly overpowered. The khan is not one of the characters I see in most Space Marine lists. Skarvald, you think it would be different with our codex?

 

Extra armour for all tanks woudn't be the best representation for Egil's company I think. The rule benefits vehicles like the Rhino the most, since it keeps them moving. Land Raiders also benefit well from this, but you'd probably see lists with mainly a lot of Rhinos. Egil's armoured assaults are typified by two factors: a frontal assault by 'heavy tanks' and an encircling manoeuvre by 'packs of transports'. Ideally Egil's rules would stimulate both those factors. Extra armour for all tanks probably won't do that. Limiting the extra armour benefit to heavy support tanks helps keep an assault of heavy tanks moving, but doesn't facilitate the encircling transport manoeuvre.

Making all tanks fast would certainly stimulate a more aggressive vehicle attack, but would it stimulate specifically the tactics described in the codex? It could - keeping a centre of heavier tanks moving forward while firing, while fast Rhinos dart up the flanks, but it doesn't necessarily do that. Fast vehicles could also be used in vastly different ways. For example, it could facilitate a massive frontal rhino rush. Of course, these rules don't need to be too strict, confining you to one army, but I'm sure more distinctive rules could be written.

To facilitate the encircling by packs of transports, I think allowing Rhino's to outflank is ideal. It doesn't stimulate the other manoeuvre (which I've always found it difficult to come up with a good rule for), but I can't think of a better way to simulate encircling Rhinos.

Do you agree Egil's rules should stimulate specifically those two manoeuvres? If you do, how would they be best represented?

 

Access Leman Russ tanks would be a distinctive trait, and admittedly a nice homage to the 3rd edition codex, but I'm not sure about it. While nice I would most like to see an frontal assault of Land Raiders, supported by Predators.

 

* I went with 10 points per Rhino. Theorizing that often no more than 3 of them would be sent to outflank I priced the ability at 30 points.

 

 

Sven Bloodhowl

 

Defensive grenades to represent the fire breathing isn't a bad idea as such (also, I really like defensive grenades :D ), but sadly it's only limited to getting charged. Ideally it would have effect both when charging and when getting charged. If you don't like the current rule, and I would certainly agree it's not the most streamlined of rules, what would make a good replacement that also has effect when charging yourself?

 

I would also love to do something with the 'walking conflagrations' that are mentioned in the codex. Any ideas anyone?

 

I love the idea of power- or chainfists with inbuilt flamers. I love how FW's siege Dreadnought has such a rule and wish all Dreadnoughts did. It would also be neat on Sven; I can almost hear his evil laughter as he fires the flamer. It's really a shame he's already set down with a thunder hammer.

[hendrik]

well i only said proposed the fire breathing as defensive grenades snce we already have frak and krak grenades ^_^

[Araith]

I know, and it's not a strange thought at all. I just think it doesn't cover the fire breathing well, at least not in its entirety... and I'm kinda hoping you have a better alternative to the rule I wrote up.

[Brother Kirus]

As regards Egil, what's your reasoning for thunder hammer and combi-melta, brother Kirus?

I'll explain mine. The power fist came to mind because as a metal hand it suited the idea of a man more of metal than flesh. The storm bolter then I included as basically the standard gun for a suit of terminator armour, having no better idea.

Well... I think about his company as Iron Hands in SW colors... Obsessed with mechanization, bionics and such... Hammer seams to be a suitable weapon for a "craftsman/blacksmith" leader. As for combi-melta, it seems reasonable to think that the guy who loves and knows much about tanks also knows what hurts them most.

[Skarvald the Troll-faced]

Honestly? Here's what Egil Iron Wolf should have. Ready for this? BAM.

 

The Iron Gauntlet: Egil Iron Wolf is famous for his armored assaults and for the impeccable condition of his vehicles. The Iron Priests acting for his Great Company have become an inseparable element of his force and throughout the centuries have gotten used to even leading some of the armored vehicles and the troops inside on the battlefield. Because of this combat experience, Iron Priests and their Cyberwolves or Thrall Servitors can sometimes act as support for some of the Space Wolves units. Before the battle, each Iron Priest and his retinue of Cyberwolves or Thrall-Servitors has the option of being assigned to join a pack from the following list: Blood Claws, Swiftclaw Bike Packs, Grey Hunters, Wolf Scouts, Long Fangs Only one Iron Priest may join each pack in this manner. Iron Priests mounted on Space Marine Bikes or Thunderwolf Mounts may not join Wolf Scouts units.

 

This opens up some interesting options.

First, it makes Iron Priests viable. Sage of the Iron Wolf? Well, now you can stick him in a Land Raider with some Grey Hunters and cruise super fast. You can now have 10 Grey Hunters, Arjac Rockfist, an Iron Priest and 3 Thrall Servitors in a Land Raider Crusader!

Extra bodies for Long Fang units. You can also have Thralls with some cheap Heavy Bolters (but BS3) or you can splurge and get Plasma Cannons and while your Long Fangs are busy dealing with vehicles they can deal with infantry.

This also allows you more chances to fix vehicles, as the Iron Priests can join packs in actual vehicles.

[Kassill]

Honestly? Here's what Egil Iron Wolf should have. Ready for this? BAM.

 

The Iron Gauntlet: Egil Iron Wolf is famous for his armored assaults and for the impeccable condition of his vehicles. The Iron Priests acting for his Great Company have become an inseparable element of his force and throughout the centuries have gotten used to even leading some of the armored vehicles and the troops inside on the battlefield. Because of this combat experience, Iron Priests and their Cyberwolves or Thrall Servitors can sometimes act as support for some of the Space Wolves units. Before the battle, each Iron Priest and his retinue of Cyberwolves or Thrall-Servitors has the option of being assigned to join a pack from the following list: Blood Claws, Swiftclaw Bike Packs, Grey Hunters, Wolf Scouts, Long Fangs Only one Iron Priest may join each pack in this manner. Iron Priests mounted on Space Marine Bikes or Thunderwolf Mounts may not join Wolf Scouts units.

 

This opens up some interesting options.

First, it makes Iron Priests viable. Sage of the Iron Wolf? Well, now you can stick him in a Land Raider with some Grey Hunters and cruise super fast. You can now have 10 Grey Hunters, Arjac Rockfist, an Iron Priest and 3 Thrall Servitors in a Land Raider Crusader!

Extra bodies for Long Fang units. You can also have Thralls with some cheap Heavy Bolters (but BS3) or you can splurge and get Plasma Cannons and while your Long Fangs are busy dealing with vehicles they can deal with infantry.

This also allows you more chances to fix vehicles, as the Iron Priests can join packs in actual vehicles.

 

 

I like this alot actually!

 

 

As for the fire breathers, why not give their Fire Breathing the same stats as the Hand Flamer's the Blood angels use?

[Loathir's Own]

For the Fire Breathing I would suggest a one time use nerfed* cleansing flame for each unit, this would represent them flamebreathing as they charge into combat.

 

*nerf= after all assault moves are made models that are in base contact with a model in Sven's Unit is wounded on a 4+ regardless of their toughness. Armor saves may be taken as normal.

 

I also agree with the Iron Priest Attachment for Iron Wolf and making him have the ability to repair vehicles him self. My issue with the current rules in the OP is that just because he uses lots of Armor does not make them faster, instead I would see it more as a steady fire base like,

 

Egil Iron Wolf (same as your stats)

Armored Fury- Egil is a tank enthusiast constantly bellowing from the canopy of his vehicle and corralling his foe into the kill zone of his heavy armor and forcing them into the jaws of his mechanized Grey Hunters. Egil may be mounted in one of the following vehicles, Rhino, Predator, Vindicator, Land Raider While mounted in these vehicles he is treated as a passenger and may fire his Storm Bolter, or fire the main armament at his BS, if he chooses to be mounted in a vehicle he looses his terminator armor and instead dawns his Runic Armor. The Vehicle counts as an HQ choice and purchased as a retinue. If the Vehicle is destroyed place a model representing his wargear and statline, he is then treated as an infantry model from then on.

 

I see Egil being a BADA** version of that weird blue guy that chills in tanks for those sons of the coward, Gulliman, fluff joke :P

 

For Krakendoom I would work it as... this is REALLY BROKEN but, Assault door Rhinos, the reason I suggest this is that they explain in the snippet from his section that he treats rhinos like Long Boats launching assaults on them. For space combat or suggestive space combat I would say something like close quarters specialist Furious Charge to his unit, when in area terrain, or move through cover for the army.

 

These are just how I would solve the stipulations on the blurbs for each of our wolf lords. I think that in this game there is enough current rules that maybe looking through other codexes and through the imperial armor books, could potentially solve the problem of reinventing the wheel. Thanks for reading my blurb.

[Nadir]

For Krakendoom I would work it as... this is REALLY BROKEN but, Assault door Rhinos, the reason I suggest this is that they explain in the snippet from his section that he treats rhinos like Long Boats launching assaults on them.

 

Or open topped Rhinos? Maybe additional outer bars for a few more SW to transport?