Astorath and WYSIWYG

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Astorath the Grim is armed with, among others, a bolt pistol and frag and krak grenades. My question to you is; where are they?

 

He has one tiny little bag on his left hip that might contain a single grenade but other than that there is no sign of any other grenades, a pistol or a holster that might contain a pistol.

 

In light of the WYSIWYG rules, what gives?

[Iron Lord]

I think "official model" trumps "WYSIWYG"

 

Plus I'm not sure if grenades are covered by it anyway.

 

Lelith Hesperax has nowhere to store her grenades (except maybe her hair) but the model's still valid.

[Dunnaeph34rn473]

I was always under the impression that WYSIWYG applied to upgrade purchases, or anything that didn't come standard on the model or unit, but otherwise a unit was just assumed to be carrying it's default gear even if not shown, unless it had an obvious upgrade that would replace a certain piece of default gear.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Ok, here's the thing that worries me about that answer Iron Lord; I'm not using my Astorath as Astorath; I'm using him as a Captain and obviously want him armed with a bolt pistol and grenades along with his power weapon. Currently he doesn't have them and I can't convert him to have them because I'm a ham-fisted oaf.

 

I really don't see it being a problem most of the time because I'm not really a competitive tournament type player but one of the main reasons I started my BA army was so that I'd have a decently strong army if I ever did decide to go to a tournament.

 

If Dunnaeph is right, then there'll be no problem because a captain comes with grenades and a pistol as standard. However, and no disrespect intended, I've not heard that version of WYSIWYG before. As far as I know the only thing that can be assumed about weaponry is that every model carries a CCW, even if they're not represented.

[Morticon]

Standard gear is never considered a necessity to be modelled- especially for ancillary items like grenades.

[The Crimson Cartel]

Aye, mort and the rest have it right. Wysiwyg only pertains to upgrades ,regardless of model (special characters cant be upgraded anyway ..)

 

For a further thought , I cant even imagine the time and right pain in the butt it would be to glue both types of nades and pistols on my entire army!

 

Your astorath as captain should be just fine .

 

-CC

[fivepointedstar]

Astorath spits bolts at the enemies of the emperor.. Everone knows this.

[Xenith]

Lelith Hesperax has nowhere to store her grenades (except maybe her hair)...

Oh sweet innocent youth.

 

 

 

It's rule of cool as far as characters are concerned - Special characters dont have options anyway, so there should never be any ambiguity as to what they are armed with.

 

BTW, Iron Lord, may I sig that?

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

i can assure you that i didn't go back and add krak grenades to every marine when they started getting them for free, but no one questions me when i use them.

[Brother Corrus]

Throughout the history of Games Workshop games WYSIWYG has not applied to small items such as knives and pistols. The point is not to be picky and give more fodder to the rules lawyers but to ensure you do not get a nasty supprise when my captain with chainsword and bolt pistol turns out to have a pair of lightning claws, etc.

[breng77]

WYSIWYG is really a set of rules (guidelines) that dictates that you must be able to differentiate between your models with different war gear, and not decieving the opponent.

 

What you want to prevent is two things.

 

1.) You have 10 marines that are all identical, but your list says one has melta bombs, one has a fist, one has a melta gun, etc. and there is no way to differentiate between the models. Theoretically you could make a rainbow army and state that all the red marines have melta bombs, all the blue marines have power fists etc. as long as it is consistent across the army (this would not be approved by most tournies but theoretically works).

 

2.) Using one common weapon in your army to represent another. "All my melta guns are flamers", this is a problem because the melta gun in a marine army represents a specific weapon, and it is confusing for your opponent to need to remember that the melta guns he sees are not actually melta guns. However, if you had a marine army where you had marines equiped with Tau Pulse rifles and those guys were counts as melta guns, again as long as it is consistent is still WYSIWYG because your opponent knows that they are not actually pulse rifles.

 

IF astorath is your only HQ and he is your counts as captain it should be ok, though it could still be confusing if your opponent thinks you are running astorath.

[fivepointedstar]

WYSIWYG is really a set of rules (guidelines)

I pictured you as a pirate, telling us about the "guidelines"

Stupid PotC with there rum-filled quotes. lol

 

OT: yes I agree that it does confuss WYSIWYG rules with models that clearly mean something else. Like a captian counts as Dante... I for one get confused about what my gamer buddy plays with because some of his models have plasma guns, yet he counts them as meltaguns. I almost pull out the might tome of rules when he rushes forward, and Im thinking poor sap just lost out in his plasma shots, then he fires a melta :blink: .

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

IF astorath is your only HQ and he is your counts as captain it should be ok, though it could still be confusing if your opponent thinks you are running astorath.

 

Thanks for your post.

 

It shouldn't be overly confusing for my opponent; I haven't painted him like Astorath (mine is blond, in gold armour with white wings and has a sword instead of the Executioner's Axe) and he leads a squad of Sanguinary Guard.

 

So I guess thanks for all replies. Now all I have to lament is that a Captain of a long-lived, artisan chapter can't have Artificer Armour or a Glaive Encarmine.

[JamesI]

So I guess thanks for all replies. Now all I have to lament is that a Captain of a long-lived, artisan chapter can't have Artificer Armour or a Glaive Encarmine.

Lots of people lament that. Or they use Dante's rules to represent another captain.

[breng77]

Yeah I don't often see BA captains as they really don't bring much to the table.

[Tamwulf]

Well, if it concerns you that much, then glue a bolt pistol holster and grenades to the model.

 

The Death Company sprue has several nice bits for this.

 

I also support WYSIWYG to a point. It's more about differentiating models then the correct load out for the most part. If the model has a power weapon, it should be obvious he has a power weapon. If he has a powerfist, it should be obvious he has a powerfist. If he has a meltagun, then it should be obvious he has a meltagun. These examples are with a squad. I.e.; Ten Space Marines, Seven have bolters, one has a lascannon, one has a meltagun, and the Sergeant has a bolt pistol and powerfist. If I'm playing against that squad, and it's not obvious which model is which, then it's not WYSIWYG.

 

To be fair, I have played a plasmagun counting as a meltagun. It was very obvious, I did not have any other plasmaguns in the army, and I asked my opponents' permission first. I've also seen others play with converted models where a BFS (Big <expletive> Sword) counted as a powerfist.

 

If you play every game where you are using "counts as" rules... well, that get's pretty tiresome too. When you have 50+ models on the table, it's inevitable that something won't be WYSIWYG, but to do it in every game... yuck.

 

OK, enough of my contradictory and surely pontification. Remember, it's a game of toy soldiers and we play to have fun.

[The Holy Heretic]

"All my melta guns are flamers", this is a problem because the melta gun in a marine army represents a specific weapon

 

You really haven't got high expectations regarding your opponents :P

 

In an empire spanning countless worlds, and thus countless weapons factories, combined with the fact that weapons stay in use for milennia, you inevitably end up with endless variation. Who is to say that a meltagun from planet x couldn't look like a plasmagun from planet y.