Chaos TDA army

[Spacefrisian]

Just wondering if a useable CSM army made of Terminators (with the 2 troops in pa) could be made, what would you add and would you have it being led by Abbadon or Typhus, or any other HQ in TDA.

[AekoldHelbrass]

While it would be helpful in killpoint missions, you will lose 90% of objective missions. Dark Angels can do full TDA army, and it is quite easily countered with massed cheap CSM troops. And here you'll have similar situation, but your termies are not troops and your LR does not have machine spirit.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

If you do this, it's imperative that you give all 3 TDA units the Icon of Chaos Glory to ensure they stick around.

 

Then you've got a good chance at it.

 

Typhus is cool, but at least if you take a Tzeentch Lord in TDA as your 2nd HQ he would have a 4+ invulnerable, whereas Ty only has the 5+ as you know. Both can be powerfisted, but if you don't want to use Princes the 4+ invul lord is more survivable... Consider just a chainfist.

 

Edit: BTW, I do see a chaos terminator army do quite well locally. He doesn't use Yabbadabbaddon, only has 2 land raiders, and gives them both possession while a 3rd terminator squad deepstrikes with 10 combi-meltas.

[Lady_Canoness]

He doesn't use Yabbadabbaddon,

 

Hehe - that's awesome!

 

Back on topic, Chaos Terminators are good, but I would say your focus should be on what units can best support them (and draw some fire too). Defilers are a good bet, though that *will* take away from your Land Raiders.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

This list scares the Rubric out of me. I play it biweekly.

 

Khârn the Betrizzle

10 CSM Melta x2, Power Fist, Rhino

9 Thousand Sons Doombolt, Rhino w/ Combi-Melta, Khârn

10 Terminators Reaper, IoCG, 2x Combi-Melta, 4x Chainfist

10 Terminators Reaper, IoCG, 2x Combi-Melta, 4x Chainfist

10 Terminators Reaper, IoCG, 2x Combi-Melta, 4x Chainfist

[Hiro_Protagonist]

I've been using two 10 man TDA squads supported by various 20 man Troops with above average success.

 

Having only the 2 troops doesn't mean that you'll lose 90% of the objective missions, so long as those two troops can do the job.

[Apostle Redbeard]

10 terminators - 4 combi-plasma, 4 combi-melta, 2 heavy flamer, 2 chain fists, icon of chaos glory - 390pts. I'd really like to deep strike something like that to an icon then vaporise an expensive unit, take the return fire wounds on the guys who just depleted their combis, then go cook and chop something. A different icon would be nice, since for 10 men you can justify the cost more, but having ~400pts of terminators chickening out because they're for some reason not fearless would really, really suck. Battle cannons would suck too. IoT would help a bit with that. Then again, if they picked a juicy enough target on the drop they probably killed enough to make up the points lost when half the squad gets flattened. As long as they hold and the fists/flamers last to the next turn, they could probably trash something juicy again before going out with a bang.

 

Two of them landing in support of mass troops would be funny.

[AekoldHelbrass]

Having only the 2 troops doesn't mean that you'll lose 90% of the objective missions, so long as those two troops can do the job.

 

Assuming that your opponent is not stupid - he will notice your weakness, and pushing everything just to slaughter or stop those 2 squads will do the job for him if he can hold at least 1 point.

Additionally, when you're taking large fat units it means that your opponent will have more units than you do, and that's enormous advantage on 5-points missions.

And still even taking full-elite of CSM you will not beat elite of some opponents, for example Belial with his retinue unit will slaughter Khornate terminators in 2 turns, BA honour guard can deal more than 20 power-weapon attacks with Furious Charge, and of course 1 good shot from 150-points vindicator can leave you without terminators. At least something similar happens to me all the time, and my opponent's Dark Angels are 3-charges army, because of 2 LRs, one with termies and chaplain, second with Belial and honour guard, they are charging separately mostly.

 

if they picked a juicy enough

 

How often do you see something THAT juicy in your games?

[Apostle Redbeard]

How often do you see something THAT juicy in your games?

 

Tricked-out purifiers, footslogger hive tyrants and guards, other terminators, vehicle squadrons, suchlike. If you melt a really valuable squad with all your guns on the drop, fair play, you just made your points back and probably put a hole in your opponent's plan. If you kill something less valuable like a land raider, you probably have some combis left for the next turn. If you survive, kill something else. If the terms get wped out, chances are they stopped a lot of the rest of your army getting killed instead.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Having only the 2 troops doesn't mean that you'll lose 90% of the objective missions, so long as those two troops can do the job.

 

Assuming that your opponent is not stupid - he will notice your weakness, and pushing everything just to slaughter or stop those 2 squads will do the job for him if he can hold at least 1 point.

Additionally, when you're taking large fat units it means that your opponent will have more units than you do, and that's enormous advantage on 5-points missions.

 

Using a Horde is different, not an inferior choice. Check out The Chaos Horde for testing being done.

[the jeske]

Tricked-out purifiers, footslogger hive tyrants and guards, other terminators, vehicle squadrons, suchlike. If you melt a really valuable squad with all your guns on the drop, fair play, you just made your points back and probably put a hole in your opponent's plan.

only . purifires will be 5 man and not tricked out . nid deathstarts wont go down to a unit of terminators shoting at them even if you land with 10[and let us remember that ours are not relentless so those combi plasma are not 24" range] multi wound unit will soak up the damaged[draigo wing] . What they can kill is a normal unit[outside of a transport] or a tank/transport , problem is non of those costs around 400pts [ almost 700 with abadon] and what is even a bigger problem we can only take 3 units of those . If we could take 3 units +2 units of bodyguards and 3x3 oblits it could make a theme army [termis cheap 6-8man sized full combis 2 fists +icon other then slanesh] , but we cant so in normal points the army can not be made and in bigger games we dont have enough termis to make it semi viable.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Khârn leading Thousand Sons makes Khorne cry.

[Kristoff]

Tzeentch, too. And he's got a LOT more eyes...

 

 

Most of the time...

[Rain]

Any terminator army that isn't Loganwing or Draigowing makes me giggle a little. It's cute and usually looks cool, but come on. Chaos terminators especially are like the red headed step children of terminators, you have comparatively bad shooting with anything except 1 shot per game suicide weapons, very bad CC staying power because of T4 and no SS, and no way to make them scoring. Oh and the list usually has so few bodies that you can can kill a fairly large percentage of the list with anti-tank weapons, assuming your list is written for anti-mech which most lists are.

 

Oh and it's slow and/or clumsy unless you take LR's which are expensive and fun to disable/destroy with Dark Lances. Oh and a 10-melta DS blob--well again I'm thinking this against say my Dark Eldar, what are they going to kill? A Ravager? Oh no, not one of my 115 point Ravagers. And this would be on turn 2+ after the Ravagers have already had at least a turn to do their thing against enemy mech. After that the termis can probably just be ignored, they just 10 guys with bolters, oh well. I suppose if they are somewhere important (like near my home objective) I can alternately assault them with a unit that will eat them in one turn, which many modern armies have. Heck, even against an enemy LR, why would you spend that many points for a use once unit? Actually against a LR it's even worse because a single unlucky scatter roll and you're out of 6" for the double pen roll and then have fun with your S8 guns.

 

Or maybe I'm just a cynic.

[Chengar Qordath]

Having only the 2 troops doesn't mean that you'll lose 90% of the objective missions, so long as those two troops can do the job.

 

Assuming that your opponent is not stupid - he will notice your weakness, and pushing everything just to slaughter or stop those 2 squads will do the job for him if he can hold at least 1 point.

Additionally, when you're taking large fat units it means that your opponent will have more units than you do, and that's enormous advantage on 5-points missions.

 

Using a Horde is different, not an inferior choice. Check out The Chaos Horde for testing being done.

That thread's discussing big expensive Troops squads, which are a very different proposition from big Terminator squads when it comes to objective games because Chaos Terminators are not scoring units.

 

I think the big problem with Chaos Terminators is that they don't make very good shooting platforms due to the lack of good options outside of combi-weapons, and the very lackluster Chaos Land Raider makes them less than brilliant as an assault unit. I can't think of many jobs a ten-man Chaos Terminator squad is suitable for that a cheaper option couldn't do just as well.

[the jeske]

Khârn leading Thousand Sons makes Khorne cry.

when the dex became legal , JJ himself told us in a WD article that this is what makes the codex awesome . That you can have a khorn lord in a tzeench army.

[Spacefrisian]

So who cares if you dont have many scoring units, if the enemy doesnt have any he cant win either, unless he goes for total annihalation.

 

As for the list in itself, i count Obliterators as Terminators (though mutated ones that is)

 

 

@Jeske: on the subject of the CSM TDA not being Relentless, you might want to check page 86 of the CSM codex, under Terminator armour.

[the jeske]

no relentless in my dex.

[Spacefrisian]

no relentless in my dex.

 

The rule as in csm dex is written doesnt say Relentless cause they wrote the whole thing out.

[Rain]

It's not just the lack of scoring units, although that is serious. It's also that your punchy non-scoring elites just aren't very punchy or very elite. You are of course free to try it, and it would look cool, and do ok in very casual games, but you will have to really outplay your opponents pretty dramatically to win unless they are also playing something kooky. Good luck anyway though.

[Chengar Qordath]

no relentless in my dex.

 

The rule as in csm dex is written doesnt say Relentless cause they wrote the whole thing out.

Except for the part that didn't get written out, like being able to fire rapid fire weapons on the move as if they were stationary.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

like being able to fire rapid fire weapons on the move as if they were stationary.

 

You mean "heavy weapons", dontcha? :P

[Spacefrisian]

Yes chaos tda can move and fire heavy and rapid fire weapons and are still able to assault afterwards. Its written in the dex and this is what relentless does as well (unless relentless has something special added in recent times).

[AekoldHelbrass]

Yes chaos tda can move and fire heavy and rapid fire weapons and are still able to assault afterwards. Its written in the dex and this is what relentless does as well (unless relentless has something special added in recent times).

 

Listen to Jeske, he is smart. You can fire rapid fire, but you do not count as stationary, so you can't fire 24" with rapid fire.

[Spacefrisian]

Yes chaos tda can move and fire heavy and rapid fire weapons and are still able to assault afterwards. Its written in the dex and this is what relentless does as well (unless relentless has something special added in recent times).

 

Listen to Jeske, he is smart. You can fire rapid fire, but you do not count as stationary, so you can't fire 24" with rapid fire.

 

He sometimes does.