Prospero Burns question (possible spoilers ahead)

[KhorneOnACob]

Hi all, I recently re-read Prospero Burns ( one of my favorite HH books so far), and have a question.

Several times throughout the book, Bear carves marks of aversion into things to ward off the 'maleficarum'. When this happens early on in the book against the Quietude I took it as just some superstitional thing the Space Wolves do. But later, Bear carves it into Amon's armor, and the Thousand Son screams in pain. How does this work? As far as I know, Bear has no psychic power, and I can't really see how a carving would make someone scream like that?

Thanks for any input guys. :P

[Olis]

Perhaps it's a rudimentary form of hexagram? Or it could be another name for one? Those affect sorcery in 40k.

[KhorneOnACob]

I did not expect a reply that fast. :P

Could you please elaborate on that, or give me a link that has more information about it?

I've only read the Horus Heresy and two normal 40k books, so my knowledge is a bit lacking. :P

[stinkenheim]

I know the grey knights use hexagrammic wards to protect themselves against posession and psychic attacks. Iirc in one of the books or old codex it talks about the wards burning when they were almost overloaded.

I know eisenhorn uses them to bind a daemon into a body too.

 

So yeah, I'd go with them bring rudimentary forms of wards.

[KhorneOnACob]

Ahh I see, but it still doesn't really explain how they work...

A few scratches in some ceramite shouldn't be stopping daemons in their tracks, the Grey Knights ones might work because they're psykers and the wards might be imbued with psychic power, but Bear simply carves them in with a normal axe...

[Olis]

I did not expect a reply that fast. :P

Could you please elaborate on that, or give me a link that has more information about it?

I've only read the Horus Heresy and two normal 40k books, so my knowledge is a bit lacking. :P

 

Alrighty then. (Described as Hexagramatic Wards in this book, but have been called Hexagrammic in other sources.)

 

Powerful wards, null-psy lattice circuits and prayers of protection are woven into armour carrying this upgrade, often visually represented by ornate carvings and graven icons embellishing its surface. Armour upgraded in this way serves not only to protect the wearer's body but also their soul.

 

I've also read Hexagramatic Wards that have been tattooed onto flesh, or should I say been burned off of it by a psyker (Inquisitor Ravenor).

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Ahh I see, but it still doesn't really explain how they work...

A few scratches in some ceramite shouldn't be stopping daemons in their tracks, the Grey Knights ones might work because they're psykers and the wards might be imbued with psychic power, but Bear simply carves them in with a normal axe...

 

the rune arent special on their own, its the belief of the wolves that makes the rune special.

 

by believing in it, the Wolves make the runes dangerous to the warp and those touched by it. the wolves tribal belief system actually power the runes.

 

thats my take on it.

 

WLK

[KhorneOnACob]

Thanks for those quotes Olisredan, interesting bit of info there.

@Wolf Lord Kieran, that was what I thought at first, but I wasn't sure because as far as I know there hasn't been much fluff that points towards that.

[stinkenheim]

Well space wolves have wolf tail talismans which offer limited protection against psychic powers in the game. There's nothing fancy about them, just an innate sense that they will protect the wearer. I suppose it's faith of a sort, and we all know in the 40k universe faith is a powerful shield against the unholy.

 

It's a bit like orks, I've read somewhere that their tech shouldn't work as well as it does, it's basically their belief in it that makes it all work so (wonderfully?) well.

Feral orks used to have an upgrade back in the day, think it was a lucky charm or some such. Can't remember if it was an inv save or the same as a wolf tail but they were just bits if junk that the orks thought were lucky. Because they thought they were they worked.

[Greyall]

Kieran's spot on. It's been shown that belief works in 40K. If a rune carries enough significance to Bjorn that he truly believes its effect (kind of "The Emperor Protects, but in a non-religious way) then it most likely will have some effect.

[Son of Rawl]

Also remember that - SPOILER ALERT -

It was not Amon he carved it into, but the daemon calling itself the Primordial Anihilator, so the mark they believe in would extremely hurt him beyond anything we could possibly do. Plus I love that a daemon of that power can actually materialise under the nose of Magnus and the Emperor himself

 

 

Belief is very powerful in 40k, in older Ork fluff the only reason their weapons worked was because they believe they would work, just as they think red makes things go faster...which is whole heartedly true lol

[Midwest]

Also keep in mind that the Chaos mythos for 40k allows humans to bind or control daemons by knowing their 'real' names. There's lots of what to us would appear as mere superstition, with not even a flexible and loose basis in "science", that still works in the 40k-verse, especially when it comes to Chaos and psychic powers (Ork stuff IIRC "works" because the Orks generate a latent psychic field that powers their stuff into working).

 

So it may just be a simple fact that Fenris runes in and of themselves have power, regardless of the actual method or material used to create them.

 

Also, the warding eye is based on real-life ancient superstition and religious practices/beliefs. It's not terribly dissimilar to beliefs about using silver nails on vampires or the Christian belief in the warding effects of the cross against demons and such. It's part of that whole nature of 40k where what's unproven and dependent on faith in the real world is entirely true and proven in the 40k-verse. :P

[KhorneOnACob]

Awesome, thanks guys. :P

[barlu]

SPOILER ALERT -

It was not Amon he carved it into, but the daemon calling itself the Primordial Anihilator, so the mark they believe in would extremely hurt him beyond anything we could possibly do. Plus I love that a daemon of that power can actually materialise under the nose of Magnus and the Emperor himself

 

 

 

nice posts btw

 

on a slimmer note:

Amon he is a bit of enigma. was the Primordial Anihilator Amon?

or was Amon just a normal space marine?

 

in both books (a thousands sons and prospro burns) his roll seems shifty at best

1. the part where he first meats Magnus there is a contradiction about the timing of there first meeting being at that point in time rather than in the city of prospro

2. the Council of Nikea:

the Primordial Anihilator was he Amon at Nikea (tricking magnus as to his identity)

or was Amon (the man) and Primordial Anihilator (pretending to be Amon)both at Nikea

 

or was Amon always the Primordial Anihilator (tricking magnus since there first meating)

 

to this last point it is possable that Amon always the Primordial Anihilator and made a compact with the

Primordial Anihilator (possibly the compact to hinder the flesh change segueing the thousands(yes the time of this dues not make sense but that is one of the underling points of a thousand sons and the H.H.)and this could be the "thing that the emperor was talking about ant the Council of Nikea)

 

3. the Primordial Anihilator in the second to last chapter of prospro burns speaks about the fact that he was Naved and tells Caspar that to think that Naved was once a real person taken over buy the Primordial Anihilator was Wrong

 

yes im sorry there is a lot of questions there but i was wondering if any one had some answers or be able to point out any errors in my logic

[Son of Rawl]

SPOILER ALERT -

It was not Amon he carved it into, but the daemon calling itself the Primordial Anihilator, so the mark they believe in would extremely hurt him beyond anything we could possibly do. Plus I love that a daemon of that power can actually materialise under the nose of Magnus and the Emperor himself

 

 

 

nice posts btw

 

on a slimmer note:

Amon he is a bit of enigma. was the Primordial Anihilator Amon?

or was Amon just a normal space marine?

 

in both books (a thousands sons and prospro burns) his roll seems shifty at best

1. the part where he first meats Magnus there is a contradiction about the timing of there first meeting being at that point in time rather than in the city of prospro

2. the Council of Nikea:

the Primordial Anihilator was he Amon at Nikea (tricking magnus as to his identity)

or was Amon (the man) and Primordial Anihilator (pretending to be Amon)both at Nikea

 

or was Amon always the Primordial Anihilator (tricking magnus since there first meating)

 

to this last point it is possable that Amon always the Primordial Anihilator and made a compact with the

Primordial Anihilator (possibly the compact to hinder the flesh change segueing the thousands(yes the time of this dues not make sense but that is one of the underling points of a thousand sons and the H.H.)and this could be the "thing that the emperor was talking about ant the Council of Nikea)

 

3. the Primordial Anihilator in the second to last chapter of prospro burns speaks about the fact that he was Naved and tells Caspar that to think that Naved was once a real person taken over buy the Primordial Anihilator was Wrong

 

yes im sorry there is a lot of questions there but i was wondering if any one had some answers or be able to point out any errors in my logic

 

Thats the thing, we do not know.

 

He does mention in his one confession to Kasper that the real Amon was beside his Primarch during the trial, plus Ahriman was also trying to win him over to try the Rubric at the end of a Thousand Sons, so from that I believe that Amon was a real person. But in the end its what the reader believes.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

There is more on this in the Battle for the Fang:

 

 

Here the wards that are carved throughout the Fang, but especially on the main gates, actively hinder the use of sorcery by TS and have to be destroyed one by one.

 

[Kodanshi]

Belief is very powerful in 40k, in older Ork fluff the only reason their weapons worked was because they believe they would work, just as they think red makes things go faster...which is whole heartedly true lol

Plus the whole

thwarting a daemon with belief in the Emperor

that occurred in one of the first 3 books of the Horus Heresy (possibly False Gods).