playing against Blood Angels

[Hear da Lamentation]

His army is likely to be heavy on predators and jump infantry.

Mine is led by a melta-biker pack / thunderwolf cavalry+lord combo, with 3 units of GH in rhinos and 2 units of long fangs with missile launchers.... oh - and a runepriest

 

I know virtually nothing about the Blood Angels, so any advice would be appreciated.

 

HDL

[dswanick]

Hmm, not a lot of info to work with - but in my experience:

- I'd be looking to add a couple Lascannons to each LF pack, for increased Armor Penetration against those Preds, as well as defeating those pesky FNP rolls.

- I'd also be looking to add some Plasma Cannons/Plasma guns, to defeat those pesky FNP rolls. But then I have a LF pack with 2X PCs/3X HBs which has always rocked my BA opponents world.

- You don't mention Power weapons. If the points limit is going to be high enough that you'll face some of his Heroes a couple of Power Fists are important, otherwise lots of Power Weapons will save your bacon in CC, especially by defeating those pesky FNP rolls.

Notice a trend? Anything which negates FNP is good. :)

Oh, and avoid those stinking Death Company, shooting is not too good for them...

 

One other thought on your Rune Priest. If you're sure he will be fielding almost exclusively Jump Infantry troops (which you make it sound like he will) Tempest's Wrath can be an awesome choice if you decide to castle up. And I would definitely take Murderous Hurricane regardless, as a unit suddenly finding itself hit by a flurry of shots (pun intended) and being mired in Difficult and Dangerous Terrain will really mess with his Fast/Mobile battle plan.

[Max_Dammit]

remember, his FNP priest is a IC, so ALWAYS allocate wounds to him.

[Kassill]

remember, his FNP priest is a IC, so ALWAYS allocate wounds to him.

 

 

 

Yeah, he should be the first get a Power Fist Sammich. :blush:

 

And I second a call for Tempest Wrath being a must against jump infantry.

[librisrouge]

As a Blood Angel player...you can do nothing. Run and hid before they come for you ;)

 

One a more serious note, you can out do them in CC. Grey Hunters > Assault Marines. Grey Hunters with melta or plasma can hurt them with shooting and that damn Wolf Standard messes up out non-power weapon CC against you. Target the Sanguinary Priests early and often to eliminate FNP and Furious Charge.

 

Since you have bikes and twolves I recommend trying to get him to divide his forces and then turbo boost to reinforce one side of your attack. If you have Long Fangs then focus them on taking out Rhinos and Razorbacks and get into CC as fast as possible with your heavy units.

 

remember, his FNP priest is a IC, so ALWAYS allocate wounds to him.

 

Yeah, he should be the first get a Power Fist Sammich. ;)

 

And I second a call for Tempest Wrath being a must against jump infantry.

 

Ditto. Tempest Wrath makes me mad.

[JamesI]

remember, his FNP priest is a IC, so ALWAYS allocate wounds to him.

 

 

 

Yeah, he should be the first get a Power Fist Sammich. ;)

 

And I second a call for Tempest Wrath being a must against jump infantry.

The FNP priest is not always an IC, it could be in the Honor Guard and untargetable

 

Tempest's Wrath and Murderous Hurricane hurt BA a lot.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Obviously keep them out of charging distance.

Pie plates are good for the Assault squad that wants to come down and shoot instead of running, at leas give him the threat of being able to do so!! ;)

I second the addition of at least one Las Cannon per LF pack, the Krak as good, but the Las is better!! ^_^

 

End of Line

[Valerian]

remember, his FNP priest is a IC, so ALWAYS allocate wounds to him.

 

 

 

Yeah, he should be the first get a Power Fist Sammich. ;)

 

And I second a call for Tempest Wrath being a must against jump infantry.

The FNP priest is not always an IC, it could be in the Honor Guard and untargetable

 

Tempest's Wrath and Murderous Hurricane hurt BA a lot.

 

True, but isn't an honour guard unit rather uncommon in BA lists?

 

V

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks guys.

 

I apologise for lack of info, I didnt want to make the thread too long.

 

In basic terms I have

 

RP

7GH (melta, WS)

1WG (cm, pf)

rhino

 

8GH (melta, WS, motw)

1WG (cm, pf)

rhino

 

5GH (flamer)

HB Razor

 

3bikers (melta)

1WG biker (cm, pf)

attack biker (mmelta)

 

3 Thunderwolves (th; ss; basic)

1 Thunderlord (ra, ss, wc)

 

2 lots of LF (4xml each)

 

Would love to have some LC - but this list is tweeked to within an inch of it's life - and I canna squeeze more points out o' it Captin' :)

 

 

Apparently he is likely to field something like 4 or 5 predators of various types. This has me worried a little. Any advice??

[JamesI]

remember, his FNP priest is a IC, so ALWAYS allocate wounds to him.

 

 

 

Yeah, he should be the first get a Power Fist Sammich. :)

 

And I second a call for Tempest Wrath being a must against jump infantry.

The FNP priest is not always an IC, it could be in the Honor Guard and untargetable

 

Tempest's Wrath and Murderous Hurricane hurt BA a lot.

 

True, but isn't an honour guard unit rather uncommon in BA lists?

 

V

HG are pretty popular in jump heavy lists.

[librisrouge]

They're popular in Mech lists too since their Sang. Priest is untargetable and they can pack four special weapons. I'm considering adding one to my Flesh Tearers army.

[fivepointedstar]

Shh! quit giving away our flaws..

 

On a second note your planning on running with TWC ( these suck (as in too good) BTW) with there move/ assault range anywhere from 18"- 24" inchs you by far out assault us. And giving the fact your tougher, and have more attacks, a triple pack of T-wolves will rip apart a RAS very simplely. Second thing is that long fangs out gun us in ML's with 5 guys rather than just 4. So no matter how many predators this guy brings as long as your smart, and in cover he's going to have to try to get his money worth.

 

edit: for S&G

[Eirik_Xenobane]

You can not and will not outfight a well dsighned Blood Angels force, they are the Astartes close combat specialists that everybody seems to think that the wolves are.

 

However you can and will outshoot the space vampires. You want to maximise your options, I recomend los of plasmaguns and make sure you whittle their squads down to levels that make them combat inefective. Do not let them charge you if you can avoid it, furious charge beats counter attack.

[Hear da Lamentation]

We played last night.

 

He had 2 large units of jump packs, with a priest - and Mephiston

He also had 3 Predators with autocannons and lascannon sponsons and 2 Baal predators with assault cannon and heavy bolters.

 

He spread out most of his predators, but kept the 2 Baal ones in close formation to provide good cover and line of sight blocking for his troops.

 

It was a very short game - we only managed end of turn 3, so nothing like a full game. BUT, there is no way I can sit back and shoot at him. He beats me hands down with shooting. He has something like 6lascannons, 3 autocannons, 2 assault cannons and 4 heavy bolters. That compares with my 8 missile launchers. His are also on AP13 vehicles, which can move and shoot everything - every round. I was forced to get into combat as soon as possible - but with very little in the way of cover, my rhinos got battered very early on in the game.

 

Interesting !

 

Mephiston didnt get into combat - but he certainly had me worried with his Str10 attacks at high initiative - as my Thunderlord doesnt have Saga of the Bear. Is it just me - or with additions to recent new armies, is SoB becoming a must for any wolflord now?

 

HDL

[Max_Dammit]

fot a 270+ model, always take bear

[Ghent]

Yes, if your sinking a lot of points into an HQ, such as a Wolf Lord on a TWC SoB is a must.

[Hear da Lamentation]

I was trying to keep him as inexpensive as possible while still very effective. I think his cost is about 210 as it stands - and with T5 he usually doesnt need SoB, but things are changing out there - and there are more ways to instakill now - and more things with Str10. It's a tough choice though ..... 35 points for SoB means I would have to drop something major (like the bikers, a LF pack or the small GH pack ..... none of which I want to do.)

 

Some hard thinking needed ...

[eyeslikethunder]

What was the mission?

He looks like he lacks troops for a 5th ed mission

[dswanick]

What was the mission?

He looks like he lacks troops for a 5th ed mission

C:BA Assault squads are Troops.

[eyeslikethunder]

Not saying that does not has the minimum required silly boy :P only that 2 troops in objectives mission might struggle :D and could something to expliot and wondered if he was just playing kill points/victory points allowing him to get away with it

[Hellios]

Not saying that does not has the minimum required silly boy :P only that 2 troops in objectives mission might struggle :D and could something to expliot and wondered if he was just playing kill points/victory points allowing him to get away with it

 

To win an objective based mission you need 0 scoring units... just to table your opponent... If you can't do that then you need just one and then use other units to contest any objectives he is trying to claim.

[eyeslikethunder]

true but it means the destruction of only 2 units can deny you the most likely means of victory.

 

while minimum troop choices were good option 3rd and 4th I would not recommend them in 5th would you?

[Bartali]

Hello ! The BA player here.

 

You're right, 20 ASM isn't a lot. They can combat squad for four units of five of course, but the fragility is something I'm very conscious of. In this list the ASM/Mephiston are more reactive than proactive, as i've always liked a shooty list with a strong counter attack element. I certainly don't rush them in to CC.

 

Anyhoo, re Hear da Lamentation's list. With hybrid lists it's sometimes hard to get the balance right between the mech and 'foot' part of the list. His list is swung more towards the foot (or claw) part, rather than vehicles with only the three AV11 hulls. Those AV11 hulls are tactically important too as they're needed to transport the otherwise short ranged Grey Hunter squads. It's a no brainer for me to shoot those Rhinos on the first turn as it shuts the Grey Hunters out for a large portion of the game, leaving me free to deal with the rest of the list. It's fairly easy too, as most lists should be able to shut down 3xAV11 in a turn.

 

I think you want to change your playstyle or list in one of two ways

 

1. Be more aggresive with your Grey Hunters. In the past couple of games they've blown or immbolised in your deployment zone. Instead of using your TWC in combo with the bikers, use them in combo with the Grey Hunters and drive them in to midfield. It doesn't matter too much if the Rhinos get blown there as it's were the objectives are most likely to be. The TWC can shield your Rhinos or vice versa (depending on model size).

 

2. Switch to 5 man Grey Hunter squads in Las/Plas Razors. If you don't want to commit your Grey Hunters, then Razor squads are a superior choice leaving you free to be more aggresive with your bikers and TWC. I'd aim for at least four Razors at 1500pts.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks mate. To be fair I hate small gh packs in lasplas rb. Apart from being a meta list, which I don't like doing ... I like combat and want my gh to be decent when it comes to assault, not easily wiped out in tiny groups. May not be the most effective choice out there, but that's the way I like it.

 

To be honest in that game, you went first and there was no cover on the board. So it didn't matter what I did with the rhinos, they were going to get hammered.

 

The gh were in a good position to counter assault I felt, but as we only played 3 turns it was a bit of an odd game

[Bartali]

The problem with big Grey Hunter squads is only having 2-3 vehicles makes if fairly easy to shut your Grey Hunters out of the game, which leaves a big hole if you've dumped a lot of points into them. Grey Hunters are short ranged and need the Rhinos to position them. If you're not were you want them to be, any roll bar a weapon destroyed on the damage table shuts them out for at least a turn. If I remember rightly, in our previous game I managed to stun lock a Rhino for most of the game until I eventually immobilsed it.

 

If you haven't got first turn, and cover is sparse, consider using the rest of your army to give cover to your Rhinos. A Rhino will at least give cover (and possibly block line of sight) to another Rhino, and Thunderwolves should give cover to the lead Rhino ?