What makes wolves cheesy?

[Wulfebane]

Wolf Lord (Thunder hammer, Wolf claw, Belt of Russ, Runic Armor, WTT, WTN, TWM, Saga of the Beastslayer)

2 Thunderwolf Cav (SS/TH & SS)

 

TH and WC??

[dswanick]

Wolf Lord (Thunder hammer, Wolf claw, Belt of Russ, Runic Armor, WTT, WTN, TWM, Saga of the Beastslayer)

2 Thunderwolf Cav (SS/TH & SS)

 

TH and WC??

Just in case you don't want to strike at I1 against some gribblies... :lol:

[Ghent]

Gotta REALLY make sure you wound.

[eyeslikethunder]

you can just decline to use your TH and use your rending

Wolf Lord (Thunder hammer, Wolf claw, Belt of Russ, Runic Armor, WTT, WTN, TWM, Saga of the Beastslayer)

2 Thunderwolf Cav (SS/TH & SS)

 

TH and WC??

Just in case you don't want to strike at I1 against some gribblies... :huh:

[dswanick]

you can just decline to use your TH and use your rending

Wolf Lord (Thunder hammer, Wolf claw, Belt of Russ, Runic Armor, WTT, WTN, TWM, Saga of the Beastslayer)

2 Thunderwolf Cav (SS/TH & SS)

 

TH and WC??

Just in case you don't want to strike at I1 against some gribblies... :P

1. You can not.

2. Rending : no re-roll, 1 in 6 chance of auto-wounding and AP2 / Wolf claw : choice of re-rolling to-hit or to-wound, always ignores armor. Hmm, my choice is obvious... :o

[eyeslikethunder]

1. You can not.

Yes you can choose between rending and a TH see main rulebook.

Rending is defined as special CC weapon so you can choose between the two. p42 of my little rulebook

While your option has merit you have declined the extra safety of SS for a bit close combat ability in WC so the choice is not obvious

[Grey Mage]

However its not listed as Wargear under the TWC or TWM options, its a special rule. So theres alot of debate on wether you can count it as a SCCW or if its just a rule the model gains for any CC attack it makes.

[dswanick]

Rending is defined as special CC weapon so you can choose between the two. p42 of my little rulebook

No "Rending Weapons" are Special Close Combat weapons. "Rending" is a special rule. In this case "Rending" is a special rule given by the Thunderwolf Mount. The rules for Thunderwolf Mounts state that the models attacks are Rending only if they are not made by a Special Close Combat weapon (C:SW, Pg.62). The Lord must give up either his Bolt Pistol or his Close Combat Weapon to get the TH - either way he ends up being armed with a Thunderhammer and an additional normal Close Combat Wepaon (BP or CCW). Pg.42 of the Rulebook tells us that for a model armed with a Special Close Combat weapon and a normal Close Combat weapon all the models attacks benefit from the Special Close Combat rules - thus preventing us from benefiting from the Rending special rule provided by the mount.

However its not listed as Wargear under the TWC or TWM options, its a special rule. So theres alot of debate on wether you can count it as a SCCW or if its just a rule the model gains for any CC attack it makes.

If it were a Special rule appended to the normal Close Combat weapons the model carried (if I understand elt's argument correctly) then a Lord armed with a Frost Blase and a Bolt Pistol couldn't benefit from the +1 attacks as he would then be armed with 2 dissimilar Special Close Combat Weapons and would have to choose to benefit from either the FB or the Rending BP.

[Grey Mage]

But its not appended to the models weapons, but to the models attacks. And its been FAQ'd to not work if they have a SCCW IIRC.

[dswanick]

But its not appended to the models weapons, but to the models attacks. And its been FAQ'd to not work if they have a SCCW IIRC.

Right, so all that together clearly indicates that it is just a Special Rule that the model has, and so being armed with any SCCW negates the ability to use it - so, no "choosing" between the TH and Rending. :D

[Tsavong Lah]

Wait, wasn't the original setup a Thunder Hammer and a Wolf Claw so he could choose between those two for initiative reasons, not between a TH and the normal Rending attacks?

[dswanick]

Wait, wasn't the original setup a Thunder Hammer and a Wolf Claw so he could choose between those two for initiative reasons, not between a TH and the normal Rending attacks?

Yes, until this post :

you can just decline to use your TH and use your rending

[Tsavong Lah]

Oh, right, missed that bit. Not used to people posting replies above their quoted text.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

After having my biker Captain die after four rounds of combat with a daemon prince (daemon codex) doing only one wound to it, I'm modelling another Captain with thunder hammer instead of relic blade. Mind you, that game I couldn't make a to wound roll to save myself. Hellfire rounds, two hits, two ones to wound.

 

Thunder hammer, when you care enough to send the very best.

[Valerian]

After having my biker Captain die after four rounds of combat with a daemon prince (daemon codex) doing only one wound to it, I'm modelling another Captain with thunder hammer instead of relic blade. Mind you, that game I couldn't make a to wound roll to save myself. Hellfire rounds, two hits, two ones to wound.

 

Thunder hammer, when you care enough to send the very best.

 

What's this Captain thing that you speak of?

[dswanick]

After having my biker Captain die after four rounds of combat with a daemon prince (daemon codex) doing only one wound to it, I'm modelling another Captain with thunder hammer instead of relic blade. Mind you, that game I couldn't make a to wound roll to save myself. Hellfire rounds, two hits, two ones to wound.

 

Thunder hammer, when you care enough to send the very best.

 

What's this Captain thing that you speak of?

He's "one of those"... :lol:

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Yes, but I'm one of these too, and for a lot longer.

 

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5296/5468238058_280f9e659b_z.jpg

[eyeslikethunder]

Right, so all that together clearly indicates that it is just a Special Rule that the model has, and so being armed with any SCCW negates the ability to use it - so, no "choosing" between the TH and Rending. ;)

 

 

No p42 states that there are two catagories with and without special rules if it has a special rule it is a SCCW. If its upgraded your attacks CCW attacks to having a special rule so them become SCCW's .

 

Can you show me quote where it lists Rending as special rule in CC outside of using a SCCW. Its is no longer a USR in 5th ed. :lol:

 

 

However its not listed as Wargear under the TWC or TWM options, its a special rule. So theres alot of debate on wether you can count it as a SCCW or if its just a rule the model gains for any CC attack it makes

I except there is some debate but RAW it does list rending as USR only as a weapon upgrade bonus. You count validly argue the TWM is your weapon. The space wolf codex does read like the author had 4th ed moment. No where in the rulebook is rending decribed as special rule anymore.

 

In terms of rules they are grouped into two catergories:

 

Normal Close combat weapons ......Do not confer any particular bonus....

Special Close combat weapons......confer bonuses and sometimes penalties...

 

Rending is listed beneath as one of the bonuses.

 

I accept the TWM is a very badly written set rules.

 

 

The FAQ said you could not use the rending to add to your any SCCW you bought ie a rending frostblade. not that you could not choose between the two

[Wulfebane]

Right, so all that together clearly indicates that it is just a Special Rule that the model has, and so being armed with any SCCW negates the ability to use it - so, no "choosing" between the TH and Rending. :tu:

 

 

No p42 states that there are two catagories with and without special rules if it has a special rule it is a SCCW. If its upgraded your attacks CCW attacks to having a special rule so them become SCCW's .

 

Can you show me quote where it lists Rending as special rule in CC outside of using a SCCW. Its is no longer a USR. :D

 

 

However its not listed as Wargear under the TWC or TWM options, its a special rule. So theres alot of debate on wether you can count it as a SCCW or if its just a rule the model gains for any CC attack it makes

I except there is some debate but RAW it does list rending as USR only as a weapon upgrade bonus. You count validly argue the TWM is your weapon. The space wolf codex does read like the author had 4th ed moment. No where in the rulebook is rending decribed as special rule anymore.

 

Second page of the Official SW FAQ v1.1 states:

 

 

Q. Does a Thunderwolf Cavalry model with a special close

combat weapon (eg a thunder hammer) still have rending

attacks? (p34)

A. No. The description of the Thunderwolf mount on page

62 says that it ʻ… has the Rending special rule in close

combat with any attack that does not use a special close

combat weaponʼ. This applies to Thunderwolf Cavalry as

well (and Canis Wolfborn, for that matter)

[eyeslikethunder]

exactly if he does not use his SCCW he gets rending. It does not if he has a SCCW he does not have rending

[dswanick]

Can you show me quote where it lists Rending as special rule in CC outside of using a SCCW. Its is no longer a USR in 5th ed. :tu:

C:SW, Pg.62 : "Thunderwolf Mount

Only the bravest and most skilled have what it takes to break in one of the legendary ThundelWolves. One who has done rides to war upon a growling, hissing mountain of muscle, hatred and cybernetics eager to slaughter all before it. A character with a ThundelWolf Mount has the unit type of... to his profile, and has the Rending special rule in dose combat with any attack that does not use a special dose combat weapon."

Do I have to make it any clearer for you?

exactly if he does not use his SCCW he gets rending. It does not if he has a SCCW he does not have rending

Try re-reading the FAQ, and taking it step by step -

"Q. Does a Thunderwolf Cavalry model with a special close combat weapon (eg a thunder hammer)"

In this case the model is armed with a Thunderhammer, so by BRB, Pg.42 - yes he has a Special Close Combat Weapon.

 

" still have rending attacks? (p34)

A. No."

Full stop. If a model has any Special Close Combat Weapon he no longer has the Rending Special Rule. The model has a Thunderhammer, therefore he does not have Rending attacks. Not "when he uses the SCCW, when he has the SCCW"

 

" The description of the Thunderwolf mount on page 62 says that it ʻ… has the Rending special rule in close combat with any attack that does not use a special close combat weaponʼ. This applies to Thunderwolf cavalry as well (and Canis Wolfborn, for that matter).

This goes on to Clarify that even model's that have "Fangir", not a "Thunderwolf Mount" or that are "Thunderwolf Cavalry" without its unit entry listing that they have "Thunderwolf Mount"s still are subject to this ruling.

 

Further, as I pointed out earlier - a model armed with a Special Close Combat Weapon and a normal Close Combat Weapon may not choose to not hit with the SCCW - "A normal and a special weapon. These models gain one additional attack. All of their attacks, including the bonusattack, benefit from the special weapon's bonuses." (BRB, Pg.42). And as the SCCW negates the Rending, yo can never choose between a SCCW and Rending.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

This has been debated before on other threads and in a more friendly manner.

 

It also has nothing to do with the topic, little brothers.

 

Godt Nytår

[Roma]

This has been debated before on other threads and in a more friendly manner.

 

It also has nothing to do with the topic, little brothers.

 

Godt Nytår

 

Exactly, this thread has gone way ot.

[Wysten]

Then stop adding to the offtopicness, and post more ontopic then.

 

 

Generally, cheese is a singlar or double Rune Priest, lots of Grey Hunters, either in Razors or Rhinos (while many try to keep the Hunters small to benfit from razorback fire, a decent sized hunter unit has more wounds and attacks), maxed Long Fangs with predomantely missles(Meaning that the odd lascannon is fine, but you wouldn't make a Long Fang unit without at least 3 missles either, they are just the most points effecent use of the slot with very few exceptions.) And wolfguard to buff the hunters up and actually make them decent in CC (Power Fists make the Grey Hunters into a fairly effective combat unit).

 

From there, there is a fair amount of choices one can make aside from the standard core but when it comes down to it, anything from the fast attack or Elite spot is largely supporting the Grey Hunters or disrupting them as there are no real rocks in the Space Wolves army unless you radically change the setup of the list (Logan or raider star) but plenty of solid units. Scouts, Lone Wolf, dreads, Landspeeders, Thunder Wolf (small packs, assists hunters in awkward melee) being the most common.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Then stop adding to the offtopicness, and post more ontopic then.

 

:lol:

 

I don't think the codex is 'cheesy', but, as always there are some players who will try to break a list or read the rules in the manner that benefits them most.

 

It can be called competitive or gamemanship, but really life is just too short.