The Order Of Dorn WIP

[Cleal Baros]

Just a quick edit of the original taking into account the C&C I received when I first posted the back story. I know it's not yet finished and I there’s a lot more for me to do but I'm just looking for a little feedback on the origin stuff.

 

All C&C very much welcome and will be acted on.

Project Log

 

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9946/orderj.jpg

Name: The Order of Dorn

Founding Chapter: Imperial Fists

Founding: Third

Chapter Master: Antonid Frax XXIV

Homeworld: Heretu

Main colours: Burnished Steel

Specialty: Unknown

Cry: Dorn rises!

Estimated strength: Eight Hundred

 

Homeworld

Heretu lies at the heart of the Segmentum Ultima on the edge of the Dominion of Storms. It is a feudal world that's surface is dominated by two large continents of which only one, Dunholm, is capable of bearing life. The other, Rhys is a barren wasteland of desert and vitrified glass, a lasting reminder of the space born firepower of Dorn's phalanx.

 

Dunholm itself is a large and varied landmass, its climate and ecology range from the harsh and frozen tundra of the north to the warm temperate coasts of the south. Its peoples live under the protection and rule of numerous noble households between which Dunholm's lands are divided and managed. It is the Lords and Heirs of these noble households that make up The Order of Dorn.

 

Origins

Heretu emerged from old night a planet divided, its two large landmasses host to two very different civilisations. Nothing is known of the early colonisation of the world, nor what happened to divide the original settlers so absolutely but from their very beginnings it is clear they found themselves in conflict.

 

To the west was Dunholm, a Kingdom much the same as it remains; a feudal society managed and protected by a noble elite, served and fed by a peasant class of agricultural worker and artisan all ruled over by a single hereditary monarch.

 

To the East was Rhys, a civilisation of which little is now known and only the stories and legends of Dunholm shed any light. They tell of a bestial people who at the turn of old night spat on all bonds of fealty and welcomed the anarchy their isolation wrought. Ancient songs and murals depict a brutal society based on cruelty and human sacrifice in which life was cheap and bloodshed a sport.

 

For millennia the two nations fought endless wars, neither able to turn the conflict to their advantage but with the coronation of a their new king coinciding with the return of the stars to Heretu’s skies the peoples of Dunholm prepared to do battle one final time and rid themselves of the Rhys once and for all. It is in this tale we find the origins of the Order of Dorn.

 

The war was long and bloody. For years Dunholm’s blessed King, Antonid Frax ‘the first of his name’, fought battle after battle to reclaim those lands lost by his ancestors and after three long decades his banner was placed atop the fortress of Alnweck, his families ancient seat of power lost to Dunholm in centuries past. This however was not enough. Taking the appearance of a bright new star in the sky as an omen that his work was not yet done Frax set forth to ensure Dunholm would never again look to its boarders in fear. Mustering his host about him and calling every knight of age to his side the King pushed into Rhys itself.

 

It was at this point, in act of desperation, it is said that the peoples of Heretu's second continent, fell back to the use of the dark magiks taught by their savage priesthood. Attempting to open a gateway into the warp itself and summon an unholy legion of daemonic warriors to fight by their sides and beat back the Chivalric armies of Dunholm, the Rhysian peoples destroyed themselves. Their bodies were taken as hosts for all manner of warp spawned abomination and their souls were taken as payment.

 

Faced with such an overwhelming foe the knights able to escape fled back to their nation’s last hope, the citadel of Alnweck sited at the bridging of the continents and the last barrier between the warp spawn and the total destruction of their world.

For one score days the Knights of Dunholm held the legion of daemons at bay as the ancient magiks and wards sown into the fabric of the castle weakened the daemon’s ties to the mortal world enough that sword and axe might end their heretical existence. Through strength and bravery the men of Dunholm held as each day more and more knights were lost.

 

As the sun fell on the twenty first day with all hope gone and too few men to hold the walls the King ordered that every man able was to take up a mount and ready themselves to meet the night’s onslaught head on, in one final honourable charge but such was not to be.

 

As the great studded gates of the castle were opened, their facing scoured and burnt by the claws, fangs and eldritch fire of their enemy the skies of Heretu came to life in streaks of burning light. The Eastern Horizon disappeared beneath a holocaust of destructive power as Rogal Dorn's Phalanx flagship unleashed its massive batteries on the continent of Rhys and wiped all but those creatures of chaos closest to the citadel from the continent’s surface. The first, second and fourth companies of the Imperial fists fell from the skies into the heart of the remaining foe and led by Dorn himself, began to cut their way through the daemonic hoard.

Spurred on by the intervention of the Primarch and his Space Marines the Knighs of Dunholm rode out to meet them, fighting tooth and nail, at points side by side with their giant allies for hour after hour; Vanquishing the last of their enemies back into the warp.

 

At the end of the fighting Dorn sought out the horrifically wounded Heretian King, gifted him one of his golden gauntlets and carried him personally from the field. For days the King remained locked away with Dorn in the highest tower of the citadel, and the primarch explained from where and why he had come. He explained that the bright new start in the sky had in fact been one of his ships sent out to look for signs of human life and guide him to those worlds that could be brought into the fold of the Imperium and that it had sent warning of the great tragedy they had just prevented.

Such was his respect for the King and the Knights of Dunholm Dorn gave edict that the world be granted the honour of becoming a recruitment world of the Imperial Fists and that from that day forth, should they swear their honour and fealty to the primarch and the Emperor never again would the peoples of Dunholm face the threat of mutant and xenos alone.

 

Throughout the later stages of the Great Crusade many Knights of Dunholm fought valiantly as members of the 7th Legion, marking their heritage and origins by displaying a small Beauseant within the iconography on their right shoulder pad and it is to noted that many quickly found themselves lifted into the ranks of Sigismund's Templars. At the break of the Legion and the end of Horus Heresy they found themselves divided between those three chapter made of the Dorn’s sons and for the first time a Knight of Dunholm, a direct descendant of the royal house of Frax no less, found themselves in the position of Captain. Antonid Frax V fought as company captain of the 4th throughout the great scouring and at the mark of the third founding was asked to form a chapter of his own and take to take Heretu as it’s homeworld.

Following the edict Frax left the fists and was granted permission to take with him those Marines how Heratian decent who wished to join him in the endeavour. From that day forth the Order of Dorn was born, in a single half century the Chapter found itself once again at the forefront of humanities wars where they remain to this day.

 

Organisation

The Order of Dorn differs from the standard codex organisation of most chapters on account of their unique recruitment methods and command structures. Drawn only from the noble families of Heretu each Space Marine of the Knights of Dorn is the head of his house and rules in absence through a steward, usually a brother or uncle and the next in line to his title. In time each Marine takes into his service his steward's eldest heir as a squire and trains him to take his place at the head of their house, guiding him through the trials required to become a Space Marine.

 

Founded so early after the Horus Heresy and as a result of the horrendous losses the legion took the Imperial Fists had little to offer the newly formed chapter by way of equipment and as a result the first Knights of Dorn were donned in the older marks of power armour now little utilised by other space marine chapters.

To this day these suits of armour are still worn by the Knights of Dorn. Salvaged and repaired after each battle it is considered a disgrace for a marine to lose his family's armour, carefully customised over millennia to bear their personal heraldry on helm and shoulder pad.

 

The Order of Dorn are organised into eight fighting sorties rather than the ten battle companies dictated by the Codex Astartes. This alternative organisation is due to the lack of a fighting tenth as a result of the Order’s means of recruitment and training as well as the absence of a veteran first. Each of the fighting sorties is under the command of one of the ruling Lords of the upper houses of Dunholm and the members of the Kings Inner Council. The product of centuries of marriage, alliance, oath and favour each of these lords forms his own sortie from the Lords and Knights at the head of those minor houses sworn as banner men to his own. No formal veteran

company is formed as each Knight of Dorn fights beside his own liege lord and only the extreme honour of being named a Royal Huscarl will ever see them fight under the banner of another sortie.

 

The eight sorties of The Order Of Dorn are made up of three combat battle sorties, three assault battle sorties and two reserve sorties. These forces see frequent rotation to allow for any losses taken to be replenished in reserve and for the Knights of Dorn to return and remain au fate of the affairs of their household.

 

Beliefs

The Order of Dorn venerates the Emperor and Rogal Dorn, the Emperor as the gene-father of the Adeptus Astartes, and Rogal Dorn as their primogenitor and Primarch. The Chapter also maintains a strict schedule of holy days, the most important being the Foundation Day upon which every marine of the Chapter gathers. During the Foundation Day gathering the battle brothers listen to readings of the histories of Dunholm, as well as those of Dorn himself. The Chapter also remembers and commemorates its greatest achievements and its worst losses.

 

In this way the Marines of the Chapter learn from the mistakes of their ancestors and keep the memory of the Chapters pains and achievements alive. This practice is strongly encouraged by the Codex Astartes but few Space Marine Chapters actually practice it. Pride makes many Chapters refuse to admit that their ancestors were ever mistaken, or that they have anything to learn from the mistakes of their past.

 

The Order of Dorn and the peoples of Dunholm also hold a particular hatred for psykers and the ruinous powers for obvious reason and as a result do not make use of librarians as it is their belief that to do so would cast shame on the millennia long traditions of their people. The Order Of Dorn do use non-combat psykers in other tasks that do not directly involve combat however these individuals are never permitted to set foot on their homeworld and are always held with disdain and mistrust

 

Combat Doctrine

WIP

 

Gene-Seed

Bearing the gene-seed of the Imperial Fists the Order of Dorn lack two organs particular to Space Marines: the Betcher Gland, which allows the Marine to produce acidic spittle, and the Sus-an Membrane, which allows the Marine to enter a state of suspended animation. Apart from this issue the Gene-Seed of the Order of Dorn is considered extremely stable and shows great resistance to mutation and degradation.

 

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3089/knightc.th.jpg

 

WIP Organisation Chart on PDF

 

Thanks for taking the time to read through and like I said ALL C&C will be much appreciated.

 

 

Cheers, Cleal.

[Cleal Baros]

Updated again, twice in two days! Maybe the world is ending in 2012 lol.

 

All and any C&C would be very much welcomed!

[Erasmus of Baal]

Before I begin, I recommend that you look up Octavulg’s thread in this forum called “Octaguide 2.0”. Read that, really take it in, and then come back to this. Just about everything I’m pointing out here is strongly reflected in that text.

 

 

 

Oh-kay, well, much to be done here. I'll take things in order of where I see them in the IA.

 

First off, many things are poorly explained here. Two continents, east and west, sure. Long war, serious contrast, alright. Some explanation as to why this happened (probably based on geography) would be helpful, but isn't needed. Next, these wars - if no one is gaining the upper hand for multiple millennia, then how does one king decide "Oh, we're going to go crush them now"? Doesn't make sense; explain that event a bit more since it sounds pretty important at this point (I'm writing this as I read). Alwick, the fortress, also seems really important and the fact that the two continents are bridged at this one point needs to be mentioned sooner – I had figured that they were going across seas prior to this mention. It seems to me (as I read up to Dorn’s arrival) that you’re trying too hard to make this conflict seem cataclysmic for the world. It makes sense that this is a big deal, but tone it down a bit – a chivalric society wouldn’t throw everything at the enemy so quickly without the distress being a lot more sudden than you’re showing it to be.

 

WHOA. STOP RIGHT THERE. Yes, your guys are great, noble, honorable, etc., whatever, but at this point in the Crusade, this world isn’t going to be suddenly adopted by the Imperial Fists without a much better reason than you’ve given. Furthermore, humans would only get in Astartes’ way while fighting, and only a Primarch’s closest while he was growing were given the honor of being made into Space Marines aside from the usual recruitment. Also, you’ve explained their founding as part of the second Founding – the splitting of the Legions – as opposed to the third Founding, which was the first batch of entirely new chapters. The Second Founding chapters are set (more or less), and it will throw a lot of people off to find your folks in there. As a final note on this part, there’s no reason for Dorn to be so personally involved in these humans’ lives; there’s no bonding experience, nothing that makes these humans any more special in Dorn’s eyes than any other batch of humans that he saved from an inhuman threat.

 

In my opinion, this is a great backstory for an excellent regiment of Imperial Guard. Space Marines aren’t very much defined by their homeworld so much as they are defined by their actions and events that happen to them and their gene-lineage. The planet is important, yes, and this planet as a homeworld will definitely bring the Chapter closer to Dorn, but the connection needs to be toned down.

 

As for your organization – are there really 800 or so noble houses on Heretu? If you’re taking them down to eight Companies, that’s how many Marines you have, and it sounds like an awful lot to me. The whole familial-bond thing is pretty cool and can be built up, but if it’s a dishonor for that marine to lose his armor – well, he’s not going to lose his armor if he isn’t dead, and which battle-brother is going to pick up a whole suit of armor, especially from a field of defeat? Also, Marines are recruited in their preteen years; these aren’t kings, they’re kids. There’s no way that they’ll progress from ruling to Space Marine, as the methods to convert adults into Space Marines was lost with the Emperor being placed on the Golden Throne. Alternatively, you could have something along the lines of each of the firstborn being tested and no others, which isn’t unique but is another really awesome thing you could do with your feudal structure.

 

Concerning remembering your defeats – yes, the Codex Astartes does teach that. You are wrong, however, that most Chapters don’t do this. In all honesty, your Chapter sounds like it’ll be way more prideful than just about any other Chapter on record.

 

Concerning the Chapter’s beliefs on psykers: Great! The Codex actually approves and even provides guidelines for the use of psykers, but it doesn’t say that you have to. You’re right that refusing them is rare, but wrong that it’s in the Codex to refuse them.

 

 

This sounds to me like a great early draft version. It is functioning and has a lot of potential, but you really need to work on it with a serious mind to make it great.

 

If I may, a quick thought on Combat Doctrine: it sounds to me like either the Order of Dorn will be extremely “We must be honorable knights in combat with our enemies!” and focus very heavily on using chainswords and bolt pistols or else be “We must stand apart from the foul lowlifes and maintain our own purity!” and use nothing but heavy weapons.

[Cleal Baros]

I take the point about needing to be more in depth or at least more clear about the geography of the world. I’ve pretty much got it in my head that the fortress marks the point of the first landing site and colony but didn’t want to include that level of information as I’m pretty sure it’ll have been lost in time.

 

I took the suggestion that Dorn name them as a recruitment world from another member after they review a much earlier (pretty much just a broad outline) of the IA. I realise it’s clumsy. Perhaps it would be better for a Fist Captain who fought on Heretu at a lower rank to remember the world after the Heresy and choose it as a homeworld for a chapter he's asked to form.

 

No adults are made into marines in the IA but I understand why that may not have been so clear. The descendants of the Knights were given up for recruitment not the knights themselves. As I explained in the Organisation section those taken to be trained as marines are children, the heirs to the marines title through his brother or uncles line, adopted in a similar fashion to the Initiate Neophyte relationship found in the Templars.

 

The 800 are made up of a marine from every noble household including lesser barons, lords, knights and even hedge knights. I don’t see an issue with there being 800 on a landmass the size of south America (I’ll include this in the re-edit of the worlds description).

 

“Concerning remembering your defeats – yes, the Codex Astartes does teach that. You are wrong, however, that most Chapters don’t do this. In all honesty, your Chapter sounds like it’ll be way more prideful than just about any other Chapter on record. “

I ripped this straight for the Crimson Fists IA article and adapted it slightly for the Order as it’s pretty much exactly what I was wanting for the article.

 

“Concerning the Chapter’s beliefs on psykers: Great! The Codex actually approves and even provides guidelines for the use of psykers, but it doesn’t say that you have to. You’re right that refusing them is rare, but wrong that it’s in the Codex to refuse them. “

 

I don’t think I’ve said it does have I? Also they’re a 3rd founding chapter, not a 2nd.

 

As for the combat doctrine that’s where I’m having problems, I’m using the Templar codex to represent them in game but that doesn’t exactly play how it’s meant to atm. Looks like it will be the gunline approach until the new codex comes out.

 

Thanks for the feedback btw!

I totally take the point about the founding being over the top. It’s where I had an issue before and as I said I took the suggestion from here but I’m starting to think the alternative I offered above is the way to go. Won’t take that much to change but makes it a lot more believable and viable.

[Erasmus of Baal]

I take the point about needing to be more in depth or at least more clear about the geography of the world. I’ve pretty much got it in my head that the fortress marks the point of the first landing site and colony but didn’t want to include that level of information as I’m pretty sure it’ll have been lost in time.

I doubt it will have been "lost in time" at the time of the third Founding, buddy. Even over a thousand years later, the site where men who seemed more like gods landed will probably be remembered by the local populace and may have been recorded by the Fists themselves.

 

I took the suggestion that Dorn name them as a recruitment world from another member after they review a much earlier (pretty much just a broad outline) of the IA. I realise it’s clumsy. Perhaps it would be better for a Fist Captain who fought on Heretu at a lower rank to remember the world after the Heresy and choose it as a homeworld for a chapter he's asked to form.

Sure! A Captain from the progenitor Chapter is usually chosen to train the newly-founded Chapter; while he probably will not have been to Heretu himself (only Blood Angels get to live upwards of 300 years), he could certainly have selected the planet as a homeworld from a database of planets that the Fists liberated, especially if your Chapter was going to be deployed primarily in that area anyways.

 

No adults are made into marines in the IA but I understand why that may not have been so clear. The descendants of the Knights were given up for recruitment not the knights themselves. As I explained in the Organisation section those taken to be trained as marines are children, the heirs to the marines title through his brother or uncles line, adopted in a similar fashion to the Initiate Neophyte relationship found in the Templars.

Well, you're absolutely right that that's not clear. And the way you've phrased this last sentence isn't clear to me, either; could you try again?

 

The 800 are made up of a marine from every noble household including lesser barons, lords, knights and even hedge knights. I don’t see an issue with there being 800 on a landmass the size of south America (I’ll include this in the re-edit of the worlds description).

There we go. Sorry, I'm used to a more European-history-centric mind-set where it's broken up into smaller areas with relatively few functioning bloodlines because of the divisions. If you've got all that worked out, great! Let's hear it in the IA, yeah? :jaw:

 

“Concerning remembering your defeats – yes, the Codex Astartes does teach that. You are wrong, however, that most Chapters don’t do this. In all honesty, your Chapter sounds like it’ll be way more prideful than just about any other Chapter on record. “

I ripped this straight for the Crimson Fists IA article and adapted it slightly for the Order as it’s pretty much exactly what I was wanting for the article.

I've never heard this before - then again, I've never read the Crimson Fists' IA before. From what I've heard about other Chapters, a failure to learn from losses only comes about as, over time, the decisions as to how to fight a battle become less a creative use of available resources and more doctrinal and dogmatic.

 

“Concerning the Chapter’s beliefs on psykers: Great! The Codex actually approves and even provides guidelines for the use of psykers, but it doesn’t say that you have to. You’re right that refusing them is rare, but wrong that it’s in the Codex to refuse them. “

 

I don’t think I’ve said it does have I? Also they’re a 3rd founding chapter, not a 2nd.

Whoops, sorry. I don't know how that slipped into my head. :jaw:

 

As for the combat doctrine that’s where I’m having problems, I’m using the Templar codex to represent them in game but that doesn’t exactly play how it’s meant to atm. Looks like it will be the gunline approach until the new codex comes out.

If you really want to run gun-line, the regular Codex: Space Marines will probably be perfectly fine, and even C:SW or C:BA would be more useful and I don't think that it would be hard to bend the fluff in your direction, especially with C:SM already being for the Iron Fists.

 

Thanks for the feedback btw!

I totally take the point about the founding being over the top. It’s where I had an issue before and as I said I took the suggestion from here but I’m starting to think the alternative I offered above is the way to go. Won’t take that much to change but makes it a lot more believable and viable.

You're quite welcome! In all honesty, the over-the-top-ness made you sound a lot greener than your discussion of my commentary does. Sorry if you think I've been talking down to you a bit too much.

[Cleal Baros]

The third founding didn't occur only 1000 years after the start of old night as far as I'm aware?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought many of the worlds found during the great crusade had forgotten their heritage?

[Erasmus of Baal]

You're right about the one thousand years later, but eleven-foot-tall men in beautiful, impenetrable armor who save you from your lifelong enemies with fire from Heaven tend to be remembered. ;)

[Cleal Baros]

No sorry, you misunderstand me. I meant the initial landing of the world's first Human colonists not of the Astartes.

 

As far as the game is concerned Black Templars currently run one of the most affective Astartes gun lines and have seen me well in many a game (thunder bubble goodness). The issue I have is fitting the mechanic of the game and my fluff together without having to twist the chapter’s theme to too great an extent.

 

I'm going to work on a re-write in the morning in the hope of bringing the IA more into line with the more standard approaches in answer to the criticisms made.

 

Cheers,

Cleal.

[Darrell]

You're right about the one thousand years later, but eleven-foot-tall men in beautiful, impenetrable armor who save you from your lifelong enemies with fire from Heaven tend to be remembered. ;)

 

If I read the article correctly, the fortress was built on the landing site of the ships which originally landed to colonize the planet before Dark Night set in. This is the lost history to which he is referring, I believe, instead of the landing of the Primarch.

 

I'll post some thoughts on the Order in a bit.

[Erasmus of Baal]

Good grief, you're right. I'm more off my game today than I thought. That particular one could go either way, then - it could have been marked with some kind of memorial, or it could just be forgotten. If it were forgotten, though, then the fortress-monastery couldn't possibly mark the site since no one knew where it was!

 

On a side note, it just occurred to me that this setup seems like a pretty good excuse to find some STC technology on the planet in case you wanted to invent something for your chapter yourself.

[Darrell]

Good grief, you're right. I'm more off my game today than I thought. That particular one could go either way, then - it could have been marked with some kind of memorial, or it could just be forgotten. If it were forgotten, though, then the fortress-monastery couldn't possibly mark the site since no one knew where it was!

 

On a side note, it just occurred to me that this setup seems like a pretty good excuse to find some STC technology on the planet in case you wanted to invent something for your chapter yourself.

 

It could still mark the original landing site, even if the locals have forgotten the connection. A simple sentence alluding to the original purpose, with the clarification that the locals no longer remember the purpose of the site, would be fitting. This would be especially fitting in the Imperium, where history is frequently forgotten in a haze of mindless ritual and half-understood technology and things are done simply because "my predecessor did it that way" with no more thought placed or needed.

 

Forgive me if I seem short of tone. This is the third time I've tried to type this; I'm on a laptop and the window has randomly closed on me twice prior so I've lost quite a bit of momentum and concept. I'll try to summarize what I was previously trying to say, and continue with what I didn't get to put to paper before.

 

I see no issue with a new King that takes it upon himself to wipe the menace of his people from the face of the world. In our own history, we have records of people doing great things for seemingly no good reason; Genghis Khan was expected to be a great warrior simply because he was born holding a blood clot. Generals have launched attacks based on signs in the sky, or because the local shaman told his warlord that the casting rods foretold victory. However, I do have a few issues with the background of the planet and its population. For instance, I find it difficult to believe that two large landmasses are only connected via a small stretch of land barely large enough to hold a fort. I would widen the land bridge, and also widen the scope of the final battle which allows you to more evenly distribute the importance of the fight. A much wider bridge, perhaps, with a wall built across and the fort at its center with watch towers to keep an eye on the sea in case the Rhyssians tried to go around it. Perhaps there were cliffs or some other natural barrier that would allow the knights time to mount a proper defense while the invaders maneuvered around the wall. This opens up a scene where the daemons are clawing against the walls of the keep, when drop pods suddenly rain up and down the wall like fiery arrows from the heavens. Then, hacking their way through the ravenous hordes, a wall of yellow armor approaches the door of the gates with a demigod at their lead to demand audience with the King. It would allow the battle to become important because the Imperial Fists arrived, rather than the Imperial Fists arriving because the battle was important. To the Fists, it would likely be just another day at the office. To the Heratians, it would be angels coming to deliver them from the jaws of Oblivion.

 

I like that you have Dorn approaching the King to speak with him, and tell him why he has come. It shows a certain humanity to the Primarch, and also shows just how different these armored giants are from the knights of Dunholm. Here the people see their King, wounded terribly from this bloody battle, and beside him a demigod whose armor is barely scatched and bearing weapons of thunder and fire. It would certainly be an inspiring image, and perhaps plant the seeds of aspiration that a later Chapter could reap for eager recruits to fill their ranks. It sets the stage well for the Order to come.

 

As an aside, I'm not sure how recruiting worlds were handled during the Great Crusade. The Legions were already formed by the time the Primarchs were discovered, and the existing Astartes were bolstered by recruits from their homeworld. Since Dorn has no known homeworld, I suppose he could have been setting up recruitment posts as he went. Though, this somewhat goes against the concept of the Great Crusade, which was to always be pushing forward to bring the lost worlds of Mankind back into the Imperium. The idea doesn't sit entirely well with me. It's not necessarily a critique, just an observation on my part.

 

I also like how Frax requests the other Heratians to come with him to found the new Chapter, although there would likely not be a lot of them. I could see enough to fill a training cadre, but I highly doubt you would have enough to entirely fill the ranks of a new Chapter (If that was your original intention). Also, keep in mind that it's likely that new Chapters are likely created in their (almost) entirety on Mars, or some other Mechanicus facility, and parent Chapters would only need to send enough Astartes to help train the new Chapter in the ways of war. So, the Order would have its beginnings with almost a thousand Space Marines who had never even heard of Heretu. Consider how Frax might have felt about that. Would he have been felt with contempt, looking at these vat-grown men who had never known the thrill of a galloping charge of a warhorse or felt the weight of a lance in their hand? Would he have seen an opportunity to indoctrinate these barbarians into the culture of his homeworld? Would he have considered them barely more than fodder--tools to be used and, ultimately, replaced by the kin of his world? How would that have affected the Order's beginnings? How did that affect the Order as they are today?

 

Something that came to me while I was reading that part of your article was originally going to be part of my above critique. Namely, that it would be likely that there would be only a few Heratians in the Space Marines at all and even more likely not all of them would have remained with the Imperial Fists. But, that brings up an interesting story concept. Suppose that, when the Second Founding camed, the Heratians were divided up between the Imperial Fists, the Black Templars and the Crimson Fists (By the article's account above, many of them served with Sigismund so they would likely have been spread at least between the Fists and Templars). Most of them would be dead by the Third Founding, but suppose Prax had become aware of a surviving Heratian that was existing with the other Chapter; a Dreadnought, for example. At the Third Founding, the memories of the Legions are still relatively fresh and the bonds between the First and Second Foundings still strong. What if Prax approached the relevant Chapter and requested that the Dreadnought be allowed to come with him? Of course the Chapter wouldn't give it away easily, but perhaps Prax could be given the chance to earn the service of his former brother. A quest of some sort, suitably epic and grimdark that's probably only half-true at best, would fit well with your Knight theme and add a bit of personality to your Chapter's history. Perhaps the Dreadnought is even still serving today, to recite the tale of Antonid Frax the Unbowed and how he would not allow even death to keep him from his brother Heratian.

 

Overall, though, I find the article lacking a certain character. I very much get that they're based on knights, but beyond their knightly demeanor I don't see a lot going on. Black Templars are also based on knights, and Dark Angels have a very knightly background. What makes the Order different? Sure, they might use Librarians (Just as an example, I don't know if your fluff will have them or not) and they might not be angry with other guys in dresses but that's not really a big difference. A Chapter really needs multiple layers of depth to be interesting, and right now there's not much to the Order if you take out the knight elements. What else is there? Not even a Space Marine is completely one dimensional, let alone an entire Chapter of them. I would suggest trying to find some more aspects to the Order you can add which will really add to their character.

 

As for the rules, I would recommend just putting those out of your mind as far as your fluff goes. In my experience, the fluff suffers horribly when you try to cram it into a certain Codex or ruleset because you have to do a lot of footwork to justify unit choices and such things. It's a lot easier to create to focus entirely on the background of your Chapter on its own, and Codex choices can be justified from the background rather than the other way around. For instance, just because you use the Black Templar Codex doesn't mean your army would have to hate psykers and ban them from their ranks; it could just be that your Librarian isn't fighting on this front today. Not to mention, you might eventually decide to use another Codex or the Codex you use now might be drastically changed in other edition. If your fluff is built on the rules, you might certainly have giant holes in your IA that no longer make sense. If the fluff is solid on its own, then it won't really matter and you can use the Order as Codex or Dark Blood Wolf Angels or whatever else you feel like.

 

There's probably a lot of other things I wanted to say, but have forgotten due to my frustration at having to retype this so many times. If I think of something else, I'll post those thoughts as well.

[Cleal Baros]

First off, many things are poorly explained here. Two continents, east and west, sure. Long war, serious contrast, alright. Some explanation as to why this happened (probably based on geography) would be helpful, but isn't needed.

 

It could still mark the original landing site, even if the locals have forgotten the connection. A simple sentence alluding to the original purpose, with the clarification that the locals no longer remember the purpose of the site, would be fitting.

 

I would widen the land bridge, and also widen the scope of the final battle which allows you to more evenly distribute the importance of the fight. A much wider bridge, perhaps, with a wall built across and the fort at its center with watch towers to keep an eye on the sea in case the Rhyssians tried to go around it. Perhaps there were cliffs or some other natural barrier that would allow the knights time to mount a proper defense while the invaders maneuvered around the wall.

 

I’ll defiantly be adding more detail in terms of the geography of Heretu, maybe with the inclusion of an ‘ancient map’ and a little more clarification added to the text. (After all a picture is worth a thousand words). I’ll also be taking on-board the suggestion to extend the fortifications around Alnweck’ to bridge a much larger stretch of land.

 

WHOA. STOP RIGHT THERE. Yes, your guys are great, noble, honorable, etc., whatever, but at this point in the Crusade, this world isn’t going to be suddenly adopted by the Imperial Fists without a much better reason than you’ve given.

 

As an aside, I'm not sure how recruiting worlds were handled during the Great Crusade. The Legions were already formed by the time the Primarchs were discovered, and the existing Astartes were bolstered by recruits from their homeworld. Since Dorn has no known homeworld, I suppose he could have been setting up recruitment posts as he went.

 

I understand that I might need a more clear as to why Heretu but as far as I’m aware (and I’ve looked into it) this is exactly how the Fists got their recruits and how Necromunda became one of their recruiting worlds. The fists use and used a chapter keep system much the same as the Templars do now.

 

Any ideas as to why else Dorn might have marked out Heretu in particular as a site for a chapter keep?

 

I’m thinking perhaps as a result of a certain level of genetic purity the Heretains show or because of the Alnweck site itself. Mix of both?

 

Human population with genetic potential to yield marines and a potential pre-imperium tech site?

 

I’m really open to ideas here.

 

I also like how Frax requests the other Heratians to come with him to found the new Chapter, although there would likely not be a lot of them. I could see enough to fill a training cadre, but I highly doubt you would have enough to entirely fill the ranks of a new Chapter.

So, the Order would have its beginnings with almost a thousand Space Marines who had never even heard of Heretu. Consider how Frax might have felt about that. Would he have been felt with contempt, looking at these vat-grown men who had never known the thrill of a galloping charge of a warhorse or felt the weight of a lance in their hand? Would he have seen an opportunity to indoctrinate these barbarians into the culture of his homeworld? Would he have considered them barely more than fodder--tools to be used and, ultimately, replaced by the kin of his world? How would that have affected the Order's beginnings? How did that affect the Order as they are today?

What if Prax approached the relevant Chapter and requested that the Dreadnought be allowed to come with him? Of course the Chapter wouldn't give it away easily, but perhaps Prax could be given the chance to earn the service of his former brother. A quest of some sort, suitably epic and grimdark that's probably only half-true at best, would fit well with your Knight theme and add a bit of personality to your Chapter's history. Perhaps the Dreadnought is even still serving today, to recite the tale of Antonid Frax the Unbowed and how he would not allow even death to keep him from his brother Heratian.

This is something I had in mind and really like the idea of. I’m thinking that there may have only been 6 Heretains left within the Imperial Fists after the founding (all of whom form Frax’s command squad), 4 left in the Templars and taking your suggestion a dreadnought in the Crimson fists.

 

I think this has the potential to add to the theme with Frax and his five setting out on an Arthurian style quest to find and recruit those members left to form the initial 10 members of the order and the first captains of the chapter (Yes 10 of them, I’ll get to that). As you say I doubt Sigismund or Polux would have been happy to simply release marines from their service at this time nevermind a dreadnought and one of the few veteran members of the fists at this time!

 

With both chapters being crusaders at this time I think this has the potential to form a really kind of founding saga and a bit more character.

 

Overall, though, I find the article lacking a certain character. I very much get that they're based on knights, but beyond their knightly demeanor I don't see a lot going on. Black Templars are also based on knights, and Dark Angels have a very knightly background. What makes the Order different? Sure, they might use Librarians (Just as an example, I don't know if your fluff will have them or not) and they might not be angry with other guys in dresses but that's not really a big difference. A Chapter really needs multiple layers of depth to be interesting, and right now there's not much to the Order if you take out the knight elements. What else is there? Not even a Space Marine is completely one dimensional, let alone an entire Chapter of them. I would suggest trying to find some more aspects to the Order you can add which will really add to their character.

 

I know what you mean here and have been trying to come up with a few ideas to address it. For now I’m thinking that the chapter should have originally had all ten companies as dictated by the codex but that two are now lost to history.

 

My initial thoughts are that the households and therefore the recruited members of these two companies could have been sited furthest east on Dunholm (closest to Rhys) and as a result of what transpired may have shown a certain susceptibility to mutation or even a greater tendency to demonstrate psychic abilities. I don’t think it’s too great a leap to assume that the site of a full scale demonic incursion might have some affect on those humans born and raised closest to it and this paves the way for an extra level of detail and tragedy within the Chapters history.

 

I realise something significant will have to occur for the chapter to have made the difficult decision to suspend recruitment in these territories and disband their attached companies but I’m not quite sure what this could be. Any ideas?

 

Also if any marines from these companies remained after the ‘event’ I’m assuming they’d have set out on some form of penitent campaign and be last recorded taking their strike cruisers and setting out to sell their souls dear in one final service to the Emperor.

 

Other changes and clarifications will address;

* That none of the knights themselves became marines after Dorn’s landing.

*That Dunholm is similar in size to South America and can therefore easily accommodate 800 noble households.

*Their hatred of psykers comes from the traditions of Dunholm and not the codex.

 

I just like to say thanks again for both your critiques so far. They've been really helpful and exactly what I needed to really shape the fluff into something remotely interesting and viable.

 

Again all c&c is and will be much appreciated.

Cleal

[Cleal Baros]

Update of the Chapter Organisation Chart.

 

Going to be writing the update/edit of the IA over the weekend, any more comments before I get going?

[philsminions]

Well, all of the "important" details aside....I like it. It's a nice read...good summary of what you're trying to get across to the reader. It definitely left me wanting more backstory...it could be a good beginning to a short novela of some type. Good job on both the information and the modeling. I like the use of bits! I'm anxious to see the finished products...great work!

[Cleal Baros]

Here's an update on the re-write of the chapters history/origins. I want to get it right before moving onto the rest of the IA as I see it as the foundation for how the chapter behaves, its traits, its deeds, etc.

 

I've tried to build on all the feedback given but would love a little more C&C before I move on.

 

Homeworld

Heretu lies at the heart of the Segmentum Ultima on the edge of the Dominion of Storms. It is a feudal world thats surface is dominated by two large continents of which only one, Dunholm, is capable of bearing life. The other, Rhys is a barren wasteland of desert and vitrified glass, a lasting reminder of the space born firepower of Dorn's Phalanx space station. These two large continents, each comparable in size to Terra’s Merica Plates are bridged by a stretch of land only twenty miles across and it is at this point The Order of Dorn’s ancient fortress monastery of Alnweck is sited.

 

Far predating the founding of the chapter and even the coming of the Imperial Fists many a legend and theory abound as to the origins of the great basalt structure. Some have suggested the fortress was built long before the coming of man and that it is an artefact of a long extinct xenos culture wiped forever from the face of the universe. Others that it marks the point of first human settlement on Heretu and that it represents the great achievements of Humanity in an earlier epoch of interstellar travel however what is known is that within and beneath it’s great basalt walls Alnweck sports technology little found or know in the 41st millennium. Powered by vast geothermal machines driven deep into the heart of Heretu the fortress acts as a beacon in the warp, shining out into the storm wracked region of space surrounding the Heratian sector to offer warning and a point of navigation to ships passing by. The lost technologies and working of Alnwecks beacon have been much scrutinised by representatives of the Adeptus Mechanicus who continue to probe and study its inner workings with the blessing of the chapter.

 

Dunholm itself, now the home of the sole people of Heretu, is a large and varied landmass. Its climate and ecology range from the harsh and frozen tundra of the north to the warm temperate coasts of the south. Its peoples live under the protection and rule of numerous noble households between which Dunholm's lands are divided and managed. It is the Lords and Heirs of these noble households that make up The Order of Dorn.

 

Origins

Heretu emerged from old night a planet divided, its two large landmasses host to two very different civilisations. Nothing is known of the early colonisation of the world, nor what happened to divide the original settlers so absolutely but from their very beginnings it is clear they found themselves in conflict.

 

To the west was Dunholm, a Kingdom much the same as it remains; a feudal society managed and protected by a noble elite, served and fed by a peasant class of agricultural worker and artisan all ruled over by a single hereditary monarch.

 

To the East was Rhys, a civilisation of which little is now known and only the stories and legends of Dunholm shed any light. They tell of a bestial people who at the turn of old night spat on all bonds of fealty and welcomed the anarchy their isolation wrought. Ancient songs and murals depict a brutal society based on cruelty and human sacrifice in which life was cheap and bloodshed a sport.

 

For millennia the two nations fought endless wars of supremacy, neither able to turn the conflict to their advantage but with the clearing of the warp storms around the planet and the return of the stars to Heretu’s skies the peoples of Dunholm crowned themselves a new king and looked eastward, toward a great light that now shone skyward from the lands of the Jabal landbridge, lost centuries before by their ancestors and prepared to reclaim them once again.

 

The war was long and bloody. For years Dunholm’s blessed King, Antonid Frax ‘The First Of His Name’, fought battle after battle to reclaim the lands lost but at last his banner was placed atop the fortress of Alnweck, the ancient site of his family’s seat of power and the source of the great celestial beacon that had drawn his people to arms.

 

For months Rhys fell silent, no emissary was heard from, no armies appeared to challenge Dunholm’s claim and taking the appearance of a bright new star in the sky as an omen that his work was not yet done Frax set forth to ensure Dunholm would never again look to its borders in fear. Mustering his host about him and calling every knight of age to his side the King pushed into Rhys itself.

 

At this point the peoples of Heretu's second continent fell back to the use of dark magiks as they had done in times past. Whole cities devoted themselves to vast rituals of sacrifice and summoning in an attempt to spawn forth creatures of chaos and damnation to do their bidding and cast aside the army that now threatened to bring a final victory to the peoples of Dunholm but all did not go as they had planned. Unable to any longer draw upon the energies of the warp storms that had hidden Heretu for so long the daemons found another means to fuel their torturous transition into real space and fell upon their masters. Warping their bodies into terrifying masses of horn and maw those that had once been slaves, bound to the will of those that had summoned them, now devoured their souls in reparation and took their bodies as host.

 

Faced with such a foe - a legion of Daemonic beasts in such great number they eclipsed even the exaggerated bard tales of Old - the army of Dunholm fled back to their nation’s last hope at the Citidel of Alnweck. Sited at the bridging of the continents with ancient walls spanning the twenty miles from coast to coast the fortress gave the King and his army a single slim chance to hold their hellish enemy at bay and save his people from destruction.

 

For one score days and nights the army of Dunholm held as the magiks and wards sown into the fabric of the Alnweck’s walls weakened the daemon's' ties to the mortal world enough that sword and axe might end their heretical existence. Through strength and bravery the men of Dunholm fought on but each day more and more knights were lost and as the sun fell on the twenty second day hope began to wane.

 

Though much diminished and showing signs that its hold on the physical world was beginning to weaken the Daemonic legion threw itself once again at the King’s army in full force and the tide began to turn. Exhausted and broken those Knights that remained fell back to the Fortress’s towers and whole sections of wall fell. Frax himself scrabbled to organise his huscarls and mount a last desperate defence of the citadel’s main gate but as all hope seemed lost the skies above Heretu came to life and the Eastern Horizon disappeared beneath a holocaust of destructive power.

 

Rogal Dorn's Phalanx flagship unleashed its massive batteries on the continent of Rhys and wiped all but those creatures of chaos closest to the citadel from reality. The first, second and fourth companies of the Imperial fists fell from the skies into the heart of the foe. Descending like angels by drop pod and teleporter onto the walls of the citadel itself and the seventh legion brought death too all before them as the Primarch himself led his warriors in the defence of Heretu’s human population. Sealed inside their towers the Knights of Dunholm simply watched in awe as the golden giants strode amongst the warp spawn, banishing the creatures with blade and thunder seemingly impervious to those attacks that had brought ruinous end to so many of their kin.

 

By sunrise it was over, nothing remained of Dunholm’s mortal foe and with trepidation gates and doors to the citadel keeps began to open as the Knights of Dunholm approached their saviours. All but untouched by the nights fighting, his armour showing no sign of damage, his perfect features demonstrating nothing of fatigue or exertion Dorn sought out the horrifically wounded Heretian king and carried him personally from the field. For days they remained locked away in the highest tower of the citadel, with only the legion's apothecaries granted entry. The primarch explained from where and why he had come. He explained that the bright new start in the sky had in fact been one of his ships come to investigate the signal that that had shone out across the sector with the dispersion of the regions storms and that he has come to unite the people of Dunholm with the rest of their race.

 

Leaving behind a small contingent of his fists to secure the planet, investigate the source of the beacon and protect those personnel now tasked with brining Heretu in line with the ways of the Imperium, Dorn left just ten days after his arrival. Agents of the Mechanicum quickly arrived to examine the workings of Alnweck’s ancient systems and alongside the Imperial Fists converted and fortified the bastion further to act as a hub of Imperial governance. In time, owing to the increased demands of the Great Crusade and the relative levels of genetic purity found amongst the population of the feudal world the site became a legion keep of the Imperial Fists and recruits began to be drawn from the worlds noble families.

 

Throughout the later stages of the Great Crusade many Knights of Dunholm fought valiantly as members of the 7th Legion, marking their heritage and origins by displaying a small Beauseant within the iconography on their right shoulder pad and it is to noted that many quickly found themselves lifted into the ranks of Sigismund's Templars. At the break of the Legion and the end of Horus Heresy they found themselves divided between those three chapter made of the Dorn’s sons and for the first time a Knight of Dunholm, a direct descendant of the royal house of Frax no less, found himself in the position of Company Captain.

 

Antonid Frax V fought as Captain of the 4th throughout the great scouring and at the coming of the third founding was asked to form a chapter of his own to take Heretu as its homeworld. Following the edict Frax left the fists - and after seeking permission to invite those few marines of Heratian decent still serving the chapter to join him in the endeavour - set forth to reunite all those Astartes born of Dunholm.

 

It is said that this point marks the beginning of what has later come to have been known as the ‘founding quest’; the story of the three years Frax and his companions spent shadowing the crusading forces of the Black Templars, completing the seven great acts and convincing Sigismund to release those Heratians in his service to join their King on the forming of a new chapter. The story is still told each year at the end of the great feast set to mark the day of their founding and by Ancient Pádraig no less, the sole survivor of those times.

 

Still to be written up;

•Return to Heretu.

•1000 New Recruits

•Raises families of 10 remaining Knights to his council.

•Assigns each 100 new members of the new chapter and orders they be assigned to the noble houses within their lands.

•Long Year (3 Terran) Passes. Acclimatise and learn of heretian culture. Ancient code of Knighthood written into the chapter codes and laws.

•Gather on day of founding for grand tournament during with the King’s original Huscarls are selected and those Knights who prove themselves worthy are granted rank and station.

•Chapter rejoins ranks the Imperium as a fighting force just four years after their founding.

 

I know that the 'founding quest' needs to be built on more but I'm hoping to do this in 7 short stories I'll include as side notes in the final IA. This is to better introduce the founding 10 members of the chapter and give the chapter more character.

 

I'll be explaining the loss of two of the original companied under a different header as I'm not sure it belongs in the 'origins' section.

 

Any and all thoughts will be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Cleal.

[Cleal Baros]

No one?

[Andrew J]

Cleal. I really like your new updates. It flows a lot better and makes more sense and is well written.

 

My only issue is with Dorn carrying Frax to the castle. I just cant see a primarch carrying a mere mortal like a child. It just doesnt fit in my mind. If you are hellbound on that, I was thinking that you could include something like about how Dorn did it as an act to symbolize how the IF were here as saviors and would use that act to help further galvanize the Dunholm people to the Imperial creed to make it even easier to convert every one over and essentially have more goodwill with the Imperium.

 

Also dont know how tied to Heretu you are, but it sounds too close to heretical to me.

 

Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

[Cleal Baros]

Hey Andrew,

 

Thanks for the feedback B)

 

I know what you mean about Dorn carrying Frax, it probably is a little over the top but I just liked the image. Think I'll take your advice and alter it in the next draft.

 

As for Heretu, I don't have a problem with the name. I really don't think it's all that similar to Heretic, at least not enough to be a problem, and it's the ancient name for my town. All the places mentioned (except Rhys) are the older names for towns in the North East of England.