ShasVa Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Here is my home-grown rules for my DIY chapter's leader, Orelis of the Protectors chapter (they descend from the Ultramarines). Keep in mind that the 255 Points is subjective (as in, it isn't definite). Chapter Master Orelis (255 Points) Orelis6544454102+/3++ The Protectors have only existed for a few millennia, but already their ranks fill with heroes. One such hero is known simply as Orelis, and he is Chapter Master of the Protectors. At only 420 years of age, Orelis is still considered young by some older Astartes, yet has knowledge and insight that would rival even the oldest of the Chapter Masters. He rose to the rank of Chapter Master after nearly falling in battle to an Eldar incursion. Orelis was protecting the dead body of the previous Chapter Master, when a Fire Dragon Exrach ambushed him and nearly melted his entire face off. Luckily at that point, reinforcements arrived and took him back to the homeworld of Argus. With no other successors around, it fell to Orelis to become the Chapter Master of the Protectors. His face, scarred by the Eldar attack, was barely able to be repaired with cybernetics. Yet even with those wounds, he continues to fight on and defend mankind as if they were never inflicted. On the battlefield, Orelis is driven by an innate desire to protect those in his charge and under his command. For so long as Orelis lives and breathes, he has decreed that no enemy of mankind shall ever be victorious. Wargear and Rules Character (Infantry) 1 Chapter Master (Unique) Armour of Adamas Storm Claw and Lightning Blade Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics Armour of Adamas: This revered suit of customised Terminator armour, built specifically for Adamas (the first Chapter Master of the Protectors) at the time of the chapter's founding, is designed to provide maximum protection. Thanks to the hardened adamantium and fused Storm Shield plates, it provides both a 2+ Armour save and a 3+ Invulnerable save. Storm Claw and Lightning Blade: This pair of weapons somewhat model those that were wielded long ago by the Emperor of Mankind. When paired with the Armour of Adamas, the Chapter Master becomes a nigh-invincible force with the destructive power of a hurricane. Orelis' close-combat attacks therefore have the properties of both a Relic Blade (Strength 6) and a Lightning Claw (re-roll failed to-wound rolls). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'm curious why he has no shooting ability at all ... No special ability is very conservative of you and that's commendable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2955101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Orelis' lack of a ranged attack is deliberate. First, the Protectors lack Orbital Bombardment due to their beliefs, which include not needlessly sacrificing the innocent. Second, I have envisioned Orelis quite uniquely. As a silver-blue giant advancing on the enemy. His armour deflecting their firepower harmlessly, he would close in on them in melee range, and utterly destroy them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2955425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 There are similar characters out there that provide more for less (Asterion Moloc, Vulkan). As he doesn't have any of their special rules either, I'd roughly price Orelis at least closer to say, 180-190pts instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2956522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Asterion is from IA10, is he not? The revised amount of points is appropriate. Nothing compared to The Nine though, the Honour Guard of the Protectors' Chapter Master. Imagine nine Terminators with Storm Shields and Relic Blades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2957107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 IIRC, IA10's Moloc is basically Orelis+. Only A3 but is otherwise has the following extras: His relic blade also provides him with a powerful, one-shot ranged weapon. Minus the Re-rolls to wound (Lightning Claw) but then his Chapter Tactics are PE: Loyalist Marines. Both he and his unit are Fearless and have Assault Grenades. *Nice for a TDA retinue* He retains his Orbital Bombardment. And fulfils the fanboy triad wishlist of combining a Relic Blade and Storm Shield with the Eternal Warrior USR. Finally, he does it all for minus the cost of a GKSS from what Orelis costs. As for 'The Nine', sounds nice but not cheap. Would their access to relic blades be the reason why Orelis' is so expensive? Otherwise I'm at a loss why you want to be so sadistic with the cost... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2957585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 I was thinking of giving Orelis both Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain, but given his age (about 420 years) the former doesn't appear to be justified. The T4 stat could be increased to T5 (to represent his cybernetic surgery and enhancements from the Eldar attack), but again, I'm not sure. Of all of them, giving him Feel No Pain is most likely. The idea behind Orelis is that he is a giant clad in silver-blue armour, armed with weapons reminiscent of the Emperor himself. Enemy shooting bounces off his armour (or gets absorbed by the Inv save), as he advances on them mercilessly and cuts them down with little effort. Possible changes I could make: 1) Increase WS from 6 to 7 (ala Captain Mir'San from IA10) 2) Increase T from 4 to 5 (would not need EW then I think) 3) Add Feel No Pain (the Armour of Adamas is meant to provide maximum protection, so why not include stimulants of some sort) 4) Add Fearless (to go with his fluff of merciless advancing on the enemy, the rule would only apply to him though) 5) Add a Chapter Tactics special rule (however I do not know what to make it that would make Orelis unique) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2957795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It's up to you. You could either include some extras (as above) to make him worth his current cost or lower his cost if your aims are to keep his rules as lean as possible, as currently defined in your OP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2958272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 How about this then... Chapter Master Orelis (230 Points) WS7/BS5/S4/T5/W4/I5/A4/LD10/SV2+3++ - Armour of Adamas (counts-as Terminator Armour, 2+ Armour, 3+ Invulnerable, Feel No Pain, melee attacks strike at Strength 6 and can re-roll failed wounds) - Independent Character, ATSKNF, Combat Tactics - March of the Invincible (Orelis can make a Sweeping Advance even though he wears Terminator Armour) Also, The Nine will not be in Terminator Armour, but in Artificer Armour. They will carry Power Weapons and Storm Shields. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2958360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Will they be inclusive of Chapter Master Orelis' rules or will they be their own entry? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2959290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 The Nine will be a separate unit with their own entry. Although Orelis can still join them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2959862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
voi shet magir Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 The fancy type of claw used by the Emperor, or well-equipped terminators, uses their armor-augmented reach to allow marines to duel with five or ten weapons at once by moving their wrists and fingers, and without moving their arms. If any model were going to combine its close combat weapons, claw/sword models are the least likely. That also makes Orelis more monstrous than implacable. I would just give him normal lightning claw attacks at s4 a3, and a single bonus relic blade attack that hits automatically, ignores invulnerable saves, or hits at s8. He might just smite one person. Cassius' resilience and bionics give him t6 fnp. Calgar's completely bionicised body gives him nothing. So boosted effects are attributable to distinctive individuals and not bionics generally. You coud use Macharius' rules and determine his wounds on a d3 at start of the battle. This being either 1+d3 for a potential bonus wound, or just d3 with fnp to make him hard to hurt and easy to kill. Weapon skill six is already dubiously high. If you haven't modeled them already, you might consider what the Nine are supposed to be. Regular Honor Guard protect their chapter itself, in the form of its relics, shrines, political goals, and high offices. Their body-guard duty is sort of coincidental. If the Nine are personal bodyguard to the Chapter Master, they had might as well wear terminator armor so they can cluster around him or defend bottlenecks. I guess they would have trouble fitting in a land raider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2960436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I was thinking of giving Orelis both Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain, but given his age (about 420 years) the former doesn't appear to be justified. With 4 wounds and a 2+/3+, he is already pretty difficult to kill (though still vulnerable to instant death). You don't want to make too hard to kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2960523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 It is actually the Armour of Adamas, and not Orelis himself, that is the reason for the T5 stat. Anything that is S10 (Railguns, Tachyon Arrows, etc) or has an ID effect will still get rid of him in one-shot. The idea behind the Armour of Adamas, is that it provides the ultimate in maximum protection for the Chapter Master, the only one with the right to wear it. It is my belief that 2+, 3++, W4, T5, and FNP does not make a model truly invincible (despite Orelis' nickname). Power Weapons, if they penetrate the ++ save, will ignore FNP. The above-mentioned weapons, and others, can outright kill him. Plus other weird weapons like Exile Rays and Shattershards still cause ID as well. Orelis is far from being invincible! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2960779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ...It is my belief that 2+, 3++, W4, T5, and FNP does not make a model truly invincible (despite Orelis' nickname). Power Weapons, if they penetrate the ++ save, will ignore FNP. The above-mentioned weapons, and others, can outright kill him. Plus other weird weapons like Exile Rays and Shattershards still cause ID as well. Orelis is far from being invincible! What power weapons hit at Str10? They are the only things that an ista-kill him. You may believe that 2+, 3++, W4, T5, and FNP does not make a model truly invincible - but he comes way too close to invincible for my tastes. Regardless of weapons, I would value such a model at well over 300 points - simply because any idiot could plop him in the middle of the table and he has a 95% of surviving the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2960789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 I guess you are right. So what should change? Maybe just the W4 stat, or both it and the FNP rule? T5, 2+, 3++ would still make him tough, but not invincible. At least, I'd hope it would. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2960833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
voi shet magir Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Toughness 4(5) is powerful. Any s4 schmucks with just a power weapons are sad. Strength four lightning claws are effectively be demoted to regular power weapons. Banshees and Autarchs bounce off. Relic Blades don't have enough attacks to faze him, especially when captains can't hit on 3+ like they do against everything else. Toughness 4(5) is huge. Also, change the weapon rules. They're frivolous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2960869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I guess you are right. So what should change?Maybe just the W4 stat, or both it and the FNP rule? I would look at the named special characters we already have that are pretty tough: Calgar, Lysander, Cassius and Vulkan - notice what each one has that the others do not. Cassius has a high toughness and FNP - but unremarkable normal and invulnerable saves. Lysander has Eternal Warrior and really good saves - but normal toughness and three wounds. Vulkan has really, really good saves, but three wounds and no FNP or Eternal Warrior. Calgar exceeds each of these and should be considered the "maximum" you could give one character - but he still doesn't have anywhere near the resilience your character has. Use these characters as the standard of what you should and shouldn't do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2961065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Well, Lysander has four wounds but otherwise bannus is right. If Lysander had FnP and T5 too he'd be too much of a monster to break. Considering what you already have, you could possibly go for one of T5-6/EW/FnP if you really wanted to but not a combination of these values. After this you should redistribute any other points to different talents instead. The fancy type of claw used by the Emperor, or well-equipped terminators, uses their armor-augmented reach to allow marines to duel with five or ten weapons at once by moving their wrists and fingers, and without moving their arms. If any model were going to combine its close combat weapons, claw/sword models are the least likely. That also makes Orelis more monstrous than implacable. I would just give him normal lightning claw attacks at s4 a3, and a single bonus relic blade attack that hits automatically, ignores invulnerable saves, or hits at s8. He might just smite one person. Lightning claws and swords don't combine? What, you mean like Drach'yen? To be fair Abaddon was designed to be a close-combat beatstick and that alone. So it's not surprising that both weapons were fused together as such. It's probably more accurate to portray both weapons in the way Grimnar's The Axe Morkai works, by allowing players to divide their attacks between one or the other. Weapon skill six is already dubiously high. I'm surprised some people still find this one hard to accept. It's been the standard for a while, with WS values in general having increased on many army HQ choices this addition. WS7 is also starting to become more frequent amongst the most skilful fighters in MEQ armies and I expect the trend will remain in 6E. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2961873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 WS6 is decent for a Chapter Master. Orelis is definitely no Draigo. I really want the weapon rule to stay at "counts-as Relic Blade + Lightning Claw", so he'd be wounding at S6 with re-rolls. Survivability stats will be W3, T4, 2+ and 3++. No EW or FNP. Pretty much the same as Vulkan He'Stan. "March of the Invincible" will still be present. It will not extend to any other Terminator units that Orelis may join. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2962059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 I will be revising Orelis' rules soon, to incorporate some alleged rules from the leaked 6th edition rulebook. I won't name them - as their names may not be final, but those rules will allow Orelis to: - not get locked into close-combat and survive the combat result regardless of what it is - choose whether to pass or fail all Morale checks he is required to make The basics of this new Orelis revision will be: - Chapter Master profile except for T5 and A4 (tougher armour and two weapons respectively) - paired weapons make his melee attacks Strength 6 and re-roll failed wounds (Relic Blade + Lightning Claw properties) - 2+ Armour save and 3+ Invulnerable save (his armour is a relic of the chapter, passed down since the founding of it) - at or just under 200 points (I am flexible with the points though) Orelis is to be a close-combat monster...of sorts. Tough to bring down, but certainly not invincible. No FNP or EW rules or increased Wounds this time! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244434-diy-chapter-master/#findComment-2973718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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