astral aim

[henrywalker]

i just reread the astral aim rule which says that upon passing a psychic test the unit may ignore line of sight while giving opponents a 4+ cover save.

Does this mean i could park them inside a building where they simply could not be seen and hence not be shot at? this seems to be pretty awesome, especially against marines to whom a 4+ isn't much good anyway.

 

am i right about that? is there something that actually nerf this?

[RedemptionNL]

You are correct sir! You can also shoot Incinerators through walls with Astral Aim, and as template weapons ignore cover saves, the granted 4+ cover save doesn't matter. Note that you can't use Astral Aim to shoot into or out of buildings/vehicles without fire points. So no shooting out of a Land Raider or something. :P

[Grand Master Caloth]

also, (because i have seen people try to play this card), the 4+ cover save does NOT negate that unit's armour save if it would be better.

[Dexo]

From the current FAQ

 

Q: Does Astral Aim allow a Purgation Squad to fire out

of, or into, a vehicle/building that has no fire points?(p29)

 

A: No.

 

So if the building don't have firepoint there can't fire from it. you can still hide in them, and becourse of "Astral Aim" your is not limitet by the placement of firepoint.

 

I do belive that the rule of "Only to models can fire through a firepoint" (P79 40K-Rulebook) still apply's.

[jeffersonian000]

Astral Aim is pretty useless outside of night fighting, given all the restrictions. Effectively, you are firing up into the air like a Zen Archerer, with your rounds/flame falling down upon your foes ... but you have to have clear line of effect (must have path over or around anything blocking Line of Sight, or you need fire points if inside a building or vehicle).

 

SJ

[Something Wycked]

but you have to have clear line of effect (must have path over or around anything blocking Line of Sight

Where did you get this idea? All intervening LoS blockage is ignored.

[henrywalker]

yes thats what i thought, fluff wise of course jefersonian000 is right but fluff is often ignored for rules so...

[Something Wycked]

:) IIRC, fluff-wise, they see and fire through the Warp, not into the air.

[jeffersonian000]

If they fired through the warp, they wouldn't require firepoints to shoot from. Line of effect is an older term used mostly by RPG players (DnD), which is used to imply a route that can be drawn from point A to point B for a spell effect that ignores blocking terrain. An example would be casting Magic Missiles at a target: if you are in a sealed room and the target is not, the spell has no effect, but if there's an open door or window and the spell does not require Line of Sight, then you have Line of effect to the target and the spell works despite not being seen by the attacker. The same is true for Astral Aim. Yes, you can use Astral Aim to shoot at a target on the other side of a solid wall (but not from inside a building with no windows).

 

SJ

[Something Wycked]

I've found its usually more confusing than helpful to mix rules concepts from one game into a different game's rules :) "Line of effect" is not a valid term in 40k RAW.

 

Checked again, and that's what the fluff says- they're seeing and firing through the warp. But for game balance, as you note, they may not fire out of a building/vehicle with no fire points, and may not shoot at a unit inside a transport. Other than those restrictions, they just need to be in range of the target. :)

[RedemptionNL]

Checked again, and that's what the fluff says- they're seeing and firing through the warp.

 

They only see through the warp. They still shoot through real space, but they can guide their shots around corners, hence the need for fire points.

[breng77]

Game wise, Fire points needed...but any other LOS blocking is fine. SO you could stand them behind a land raider and shoot stuff they cannot see. It is not the best power out there due to GKs only having 24" range (if Long Fangs had this power it would be Gross.)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It's kind of annoying. If they removed the silly 4+ cover save, Purgators would be a viable choice. As is, they're good for incinerator spam and thats about it.

[breng77]

They're good for psycannon spam as well, it is just that most people opt for the dreads to add ranged fire. Purgation squads provide the cheapest access to 4 psycannons in the dex.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Not really. A full Purifier unit with pscyannons costs the same as a full Purgation squad with psycannons, but the Purifiers don't restrict your Heavy Support options.

[RedemptionNL]

Yes, but he meant that you can take a 5 man squad with 4 heavy weapons, while you need to invest in a full 10 man Purifier Squad before you can take the extra 2 heavy weapons. So, if you want a full squad you're better off with Purifiers, but if you just want to take 4 Psycannons, a Purgation is the cheapest way to do it.

[breng77]

Exactly purgation squad with four psycannons is 180, purifiers are 280. If you are looking to spam psycannons you probably are taking both. I'm notw saying that this is a great idea but it can be done, and does work as a concept. It does lack in the long range support provided by dreads though.

[Avarris]

I personally love my Purgation Squad, I have a large number of Dreadnoughts in my Space Marine army so I don't want to take more to make my Grey Knights better. My Purgation Squad in my local GW has become notorious because they do just have a ring of death around them due to the fact they sit in a building and open up on everything that comes into range with 4 Psycannons. I'm also building my second squad as they have proved so effective. I also run them with a Razorback with Assault Cannons and Psybolt Ammo which add's another 4 Psycannon shots to the squad basically.

 

They are very lethal in combination with a Vindicare Assassin as the assassin can remove any invulnerable saves on a target before the Purgation Squad then opens up on them with 16 shots a turn.

 

Back on the topic: Astral Aim is very good, specially as you can sit them behind a building or in it and pump out shots without having to worry too much about any return fire. If the squad is in the open I put them behind their transport and use it to shoot around it but any return fire has to shoot the transport cause its in the way.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Exactly purgation squad with four psycannons is 180, purifiers are 280. If you are looking to spam psycannons you probably are taking both. I'm notw saying that this is a great idea but it can be done, and does work as a concept. It does lack in the long range support provided by dreads though.

 

5 Marines with 24" range are not a challenge to engage and destroy for most armies. Remember, everyone and his dog models their units based on how many Tac Marines they can down in optimum range (close-combat for some).

The other issue is precisely what you mention; we don't have long-range weapons in a typical Knight list (you need Coteaz to change that), and Dreads are just about the only option.

 

I have a large number of Dreadnoughts in my Space Marine army so I don't want to take more to make my Grey Knights better

 

Why not? Just count-as, I do it all the time. PsyDreads plug a gaping hole in our army, and they're so cost-effective.

 

My Purgation Squad in my local GW has become notorious because they do just have a ring of death around them due to the fact they sit in a building and open up on everything that comes into range with 4 Psycannons. I'm also building my second squad as they have proved so effective. I also run them with a Razorback with Assault Cannons and Psybolt Ammo which add's another 4 Psycannon shots to the squad basically.

 

Then your local opponents are silly, if they just frontal charge you, because thats 4th edition thinking. We have this thing called Outflank in 5th, might wanna point them in that direction (or not lol). Even Deepstrike will get them within range. There are also jump infantry that can close the distance and eat them in close-combat.

 

They are very lethal in combination with a Vindicare Assassin as the assassin can remove any invulnerable saves on a target before the Purgation Squad then opens up on them with 16 shots a turn.

 

Wut? How does removing invul help them? Blowing up transports with Turbo helps because it means you can mush the dismounted infantry with massed psycannon. Or blowing the head off Priests against BA, to deny them FNP against your horrendous firepower.

 

Back on the topic: Astral Aim is very good, specially as you can sit them behind a building or in it and pump out shots without having to worry too much about any return fire. If the squad is in the open I put them behind their transport and use it to shoot around it but any return fire has to shoot the transport cause its in the way.

 

Yeah, it's great giving free 4+ cover to a unit that otherwise may not get it. Tanks especially love it, rolling 4+ against the few Rends you manage.

Also, your idea of hiding behind an AV11 tank is silly. All they have to do is blow it up, and they have LOS (it becomes a wreck, you get 4+ cover, it explodes, you get a crater to hide in). At least they can't destroy a building.