carnosaur93 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 just went through ye good(bad) olde chaos dex (current one) in my eternal quest to find the most fitting dex for my traitor mechanicus-style marine army. and noticed how ehanced warriors (even if potentially unstable) do allmost the excact same thing as 'zerkers. so i i did some simple calculating, and to my surprice it appears that 10 enhanced CSM with a mark of khorne cost the exact same as 10 berzerkers (and a champ with fist is 40pts for each)... however! the CSM can go up to 20-man (makign them cheaper than basic 'zerkers), may have 2 flamers and a combi-flamer on the champ, they also have bolters, and are permenetly S5 rather than just on the charge (potentially S6 with some luck)... the problem though comes with the point that you have to spend 160pts on Fabius, who is kinda meh, and takes away a DP slot, so i know it might not be the most competitive... thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 The CSM 'Tacticals also have a chance of loosing the Blessing of Khrone while the Berzerkers will have theirs so long as they are alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 that is true... it could potentially be abit dangerous... but on the other hand, at the time you allocate wounds to your icon, the squad should be kinda dead anyways? and even if so, they are still fearless and S5 (might even be S6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Another thing to consider is that Furious Charge also boosts Initiative, which Enhanced Warriors can't do unless they swap the Icon of Khorne for one of Slaanesh. Obviously, boosted initiative isn't useful against everyone (Necrons go after you either way, and Halberd-Grey Knights still go first) but going at Initiative 5 instead of 4 means going first in cc against MEQ, and Marine variants are the most common army out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodcrusade Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I've run a 1500 list with Fabius and his Enhanced Warriors. 1 squad of Khorne w/fist, 2 squads with slanny and powerweapons, one of nurgle with autocannon and flamer, putting all in rhinos. Works out like you said, more versatile berzerkers with their meltaguns, so they're able to bring down armour and infantry alike. Slaneesh is like permanent Furious Charge so those powerweapons are knocking down most everything at same time or before, and if you roll Str6 they're wounding on 2's. Enjoyed playing the list, was kinda like running an Elite Chaos army feel with them. Definately try them out, if nothing else a proper Fabius Bile list has one of the highest ratings on the 40K-Metrics scale of DMEqCC and DRPG that Chaos can field so there's an advantage to the list right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarsun Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I think Fabius Bile isn't too bad of a HQ choice. He may be i4 but he has 6 strength 5 instant death cc attacks base, and feel no pain. Stick him in that massive blob of troops, and when you assault/get assaulted, just manuvour him towards your opponents multi-wound models. Against Necron Lords he'd definitely be causing shenanigans, and against other things if you manage to get him to wear a couple hits, his sheer number of attacks should mean you pop one or two of your opponents ICs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 He may be i4 but he has 6 strength 5 instant death cc attacks base, and feel no pain. which arent power weapon , so everyone gets their normal save. + to run him you have to either take a cult unit [which doesnt get buffed] or a 9 man csm squad[which then runs with a single special] . melta csm or melta pms can be run without fabius so his tax is too big of an investment , he takes away a slot for an HQ that actualy can do something and makes a single unit he buffs worse . Not worth taking considering other options in the dex. as zerkers goes . your not counting the fact that csm generaly hit stuff on +4 while zerkers being ws5 hit on+3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 jeske: hmm... yeah, didnt notice the WS-thing... damn... also, true point with him not being 'that' good (as in, worth his 160pts, being more than a good DP) as i stated at the beginning. but he certainly could be worse though, even if ignoring armor would make a huge difference in regards of melta though... if i just wanted melta, i would run PM squads, yes... but compared to zerkers thats still potentially 3 melta shots that they cant in any way have (and a S10 fist, as oppossed to S9 on charge). or even flamers for shoving even more attacks down the throat of that pesky ork mob before the charge, or a round of plasma before jumping into MEQ all that said however, i do get a feeling this is all more realistic at larger point games. and if so you would sorta have to build your army around fabius and his enhancement... thats the feeling i get of it, atleast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 the problem is not his cost[not that it helps] the problem is the buff . Even if the DP would have been a suck HQ [lets say no wings as option] , the enhance warrior that bile brings is still not good enough . that is the real problem . if it also worked on other non cult marines ,then bile would be more viable. Wish it worked in a different way . more random [but all buffs to hth like more A, more str , higher I etc] and you roll a d6 to see what you are getting , but for each d6 you roll one csm dies. you can roll 1-3 times per unit and the death stack [so you pop 1 on turn 2 , then 2 on turn 3 which means on turn 3 3 csm die etc] . Possessed would be the dudes who pick their upgrades , but cost more and are elite , ehnance warriors would be like them , but random , troops with shoting weapons etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 well i cant say ive got to play around with either yet, so hard for me to tell, but as far as it looks to me, i kinda like the not-so-random way it works now, rather than dice-rolling ymgarls. it also makes sense from a fluff-point. but it should be applyable to other units than regular CSM, yes. that would make fabius a very viable choise i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xthanitos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I am thinking of trying Enhanced Warriors myself, but with an Icon of Nurgle instead. A whole army of S5 T5 fearless CSM seems good on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear of Achilles Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Sure, the enhanced get bolters, and melta. The zerks still win combat with their initial charge and hitting 3+ most foes. While they lose out str wise after round 1, round 1 is often the critical telling round of most combats. And there's always the chance you roll a 6 and lose a guy every round. A full squad with all the trimings also 20pts over a similar zerk squad. I've run enhanced a few times. In one game, two of my three squads rolled the berserk thing and i lost 7 warriors before the game even began (much to the laughter of my Black Templar foe....good thing he still lost). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 A full squad with all the trimings also 20pts over a similar zerk squad erhh... no its not, its exactly the same price when you load them out simmilary... the difference in price is that you CAN choose to have either more dudes (effectively making them cheaper than berzerkers due to icon price not changing) or giving them special weapons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 but taking them without specials makes no sense and bigger squads dont fit in to rhinos and trying to run slogger is not a viable tactic for a short range army . with 2xspecial being auto include[why take a 10man csm otherwise , if one just wants the 2xspecial 5xpm are cheaper weapon platforms] they do not cost less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear of Achilles Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 A full squad with all the trimings also 20pts over a similar zerk squad erhh... no its not, its exactly the same price when you load them out simmilary... the difference in price is that you CAN choose to have either more dudes (effectively making them cheaper than berzerkers due to icon price not changing) or giving them special weapons... Asp. Champ. (PF), + x9 Enhanced Warriors (x2 Meltaguns, Mark of Khorne) + Rhino = 305 Skull Champ (PF) + x9 Zerks (No special weapons) + Rhino = 285 Unless you're insisting they take two plasma pistols to simulate metlaguns (yeah, who does?), the 'zerks are cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 yeah i know its no good otherwise... but they are NOT kitted out identically if you give the csm 2 meltas and a rhino, thats just unarguarable and objective fact. last i checked iam pretty sure rhinos and meltaguns are actual priced peices of wargear, and not just part of the units name wish i could say discussing the existance of meltaguns have no part in the topic but it does, though... since the OPTION for thoose 2,5 special weapons seems to be a huge advantage over berzerkers who currently count 0-0 special weapons in a squad... either way... Xthanitos pointed out a thing, too... being that you can change the icon, aswell. offering a chance to strike before MEQ. better survive regular fire. or have anti-marine weapons be slightly less deadly, all of those in exchange for that +1A, unarguarably making them lesser in terms of melee damage output to berzerkers so that leaves us with even more versitality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 thoughts?Forget about winning consistently, field him (and his creations) for fun and flavor. My 2 Kraks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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