Dark Angels help and 40k in general

[DemonReaper]

alright fellas,

i am new to 40k, infact i took the hobby up around 2 and a half weeks ago. after alot of research on painting and modelling and countless nights on the GW site i came down to the descision of SW. now i know this is a DA forum but bear with me.

i brought the SW battleforce, devestators set and a shed load of paint, brushes and hobby starter set and the codex...i spent around £300 to get started. Now i started with my grey hunters assembeled 5, found a nice colour sceme i thought would really look good and started painting. At the moment i cant really play that much as i am in the army and will be on op's very soon, but i am really enjoying painting at the moment. the only thing is for some reason i can get off B&C and GW site looking to start DA and sack off SW, i just want some advice wat to do, and if anyone else had these feelings when they started the hobby.

i chose SW beacuse i love vikings and lets face it thats what they are really arnt they. but i was torn before i started between DA and SW... i jsut dont know wat to do money isnt really an issue at the moment so i would really like to hear wat you all have to say on the matter.

 

please help i am going out of my mind here lol.

 

P.S sorry for the spelling (txt talk) i cant help it sometimes.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

First of all welcome. Second of all the text talk is not allowed on B&C, you'll need to correct that in future posts.

As for your dilemma if money isn't an issue.. do both armies. I have a DA army and had a SW because I like both chapters in almost equal measure. If you really have to decide between one of the chapters.. well, that's your decision really since in a DA forum you're very unlikely to hear to keep the SW. ;)

[DemonReaper]

ah sorry about that, i didnt know. like i said i am new so dont worry i will correct it in future posts.

first of all thank you for the welcome, i have been looking on here for a few weeks now but have only just got around to registering so thanks :lol:.

second, although money isnt an issue i would really like to concerntrate on one of the armies, for my first army. basically because i can really take my time to get to know my troops with the painting and everything before i start playing at the end of this year.

I like the fact SW are vikings like i said, but i also like that DA have cloaks and are pretty unique with deathwing and raven wing.

so i am extremely torn.

 

 

UPDATE - i know i wont hear possitive things in a DA forum but i would really like some advice of more experienced hobbyists :)

[Grand Master Belial]

I had the same conundrum 19 years ago. (Dear God it has been THAT long?)

 

Eventually the background of the Deathwing and green being my favorite color won me over.

 

I still built several of the characters anyway.

 

On to you, there is nothing wrong with building squads from both chapters as a joint formation. You wouldn't be able to use the characters from both until you can fill the minimum FOC charts to use both codexes. But I think you play a "counts as" joint force for awhile. Since you have the SW codex, your marines in green as "count as" Blood Claw, Sky Claw, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs. Just be careful as there are differences between the two codexes. Long Fangs being the most obvious example.

[Isiah]

DA are way cooler (not quite as feral as some other SM Chapters you mentioned) and we have an awesome backstory. Plus with DA you essentially get the choice to use one of three very unique armies in pure-strain or a combination of all or some of them. Hope that swings it for you :lol:.

 

Cheers

I

[DemonReaper]

yeh i know exactly what your saying, and i am glad somone has had the same problem as me and can see what the hell i am going through haha. :lol:

 

i think i understand what you are saying about my problem but i think if i were going to start DA i would pack all my SW up and save them for wen i want to come back to them.

 

if i were to start DA what would be the best things to get to start a small force/army??

 

 

 

 

ISIAH - thanks mate yeh it does sort of swing it and i know a lot of people will reply to this saying, buy the codex, but if the seasoned DA vetrens of the forum could throw a quick description together of the DA way of running an army i would be extremely greatful :)

 

thank you to all who have replyed so far.

[Kabbala]

I think many of us on this, and other forums, have been in the same position ourselves. I have six 40k armies myself. I think at this point playing a few games would really be the best, as you can get a feel for how each army plays and if it gels with your play style. You mention you wont have much time in the immediate future, but I'd hate to invest the time modelling/painting to end up not liking the army on the table top. You could always focus on models that could be used in either, with the paint scheme you enjoy, and build whatever successor chapter you decide later.

[Grand Master Belial]

Play testing is a good way to learn the game and the two armies. The Dark Angles Codex is now one of the older books while the Space Wolves Codex is a recent release. What this means is that the DA Codex is coming due for a change within the next couple years while the SW Codex will remain unchanged for the time being save by online Errata and FAQs.

 

Most lists I've seen usually combine the two Wings (Death & Raven) for competitive gameplay and leaving the boys in green home as they are not as cost effective in points compared to the other marine armies whereas our two masters make Terminators and Bike squads as objective taking troops. Also the bikes help the Terminators arrive precisely where they are needed since they teleport into battle.

[DemonReaper]

wow six armies is quite a lot haha, some money's worth there i am guessing.

i appriciate wat you are saying with the test playing for my armies and to be honest i totally agree, but i am just not going to be able to get to the GW store often enough or even if i booked a games the army could screw my plans up as they usually do, so untill my 8 years are up i am afraid i may just have to live with the satisfaction that painting and making my models unique gives me.

dont get me wrong i will be playing games but it wont be untill i get back from afghan.

 

Belial - if most lists use DW and RW combined wat happens to standard tac squads and vet squads?? because i think taking my time to paint all the boys green and with their robes will bring me enjoyment, i could still run them in a list right? the thing with this hobby at the moment is that it is bringing me peace... you know sit down little music and paint in the evenings after work ( or a thrashing of a phis session which is usually the case). i didnt like the person i was becoming going all these places with the army, so i decided to take this up, and to be honest i am really enjoying honing my painting skill (i am not as bad as i thought i would be, obviously it takes me longer to do wat experienced painters do but i give it a good go)

 

i am painting my SW by basecoat then drybrush and that gives me a beautiful grey which has a sort of blue tinge when all other colours are added, now i do understand after watching some painting tut's and looking on here that with DA i may have to actually paint large areas haha... (i like learning new skills haha) and obviously high lighting, i am sure with a little practice and countless hours of youtube and reading will allow me to do this reletivly well.

 

 

sorry about that i just realised i started ranting on about, well pretty much nothing related to what i asked you to help with lol, but like i have said before anything that you think will help me with 40k in general (the game, modelling, painting, list making... anything) and DA then please post i am really enjoying the comments you are all leaving,

 

Thanks

[Grimdarkness]

I'd ask which army fits your gaming style more the headlong rush to get to grips with the enemy of the S.W or the methodic beat down that the D.A dish out.

 

In my experience the S.W player is bold and brash a little corse as well. Most D.A players are a little more reserved and quite thinkers really.

[HsojVvad]

Well first question is, Do you game? If so, second question is, Do you have to win with plastic toy soldiers?

 

One of the complaints before is, the DA codex is over costed/under powered compared to SM codex and others. This was before the FAQ updated the DA a few months ago. Still lots of people say the SW codex is one of the best codicies to play in 5th edition for winning. I don't say it, but others do. Lots of arguments and discussions about that.

 

A memeber here on the DA forum has used the SW codex very efficiently. Not for winning, since I don't know what his relsults were, but for fluff wise. Sadly, using the SW codex was more fluffy than using the DA codex. Maybe you can find the thread on this or someone can link it to you.

 

So if winning is not important to you, then I would say, what fluff do you like the most? What aspects do you like? Hobby, convertions, colour scheme? For me, SW is dull since everything is Grey. I never seen red, orange, purple, yellow etc SW. They are ALWAYS grey. One thing I love about DA, they are every colour under the sun. White, black, green, what ever you can think of.

 

So if you want to be Dark Angels, go ahead. If you want to use the SW codex, but paint them as DA, go ahead. If money is not a proble like you say, and most people here say using the SM codex to represnt Green Wing is better, Go ahead. these are your minis, do what you want that makes the most fun. Just remember as a JOKE, you are Fallen if you use another codex. Again, kidding there, just saying it in fun and jest.

 

As I said before, someone used the SW codex and did it for fluff reasons. He didn't use nothing that wouldn't be DAish. For me, I say do DA, but I love DA and that is being Biased. I say do both in small bunches but since you want to concentrate on one, I go with DA. You have Deathwing, all Terminators, Ravenwing, All bikes and speeders, Green Wing, and Iron Wing wich is not represented. IW is suppose to be all vehicles or what not. You can even mix and match all of them together, so you can see DA has a LOT of viraity. Not sure what SW can do since I don't follow them at all.

 

So with DA being any colour you want, any Wing you want, and basically use any codex you want, you have so many options to be DA.

 

Also you can be Fallen and a few people have made some awsome Fallen minis.

 

So you have a hard time my friend to choose. If DA are calling you and nagging at you inside, I think you should do DA, and some SW on the side when they start calling for you.

 

Good luck in what you choose and please keep us updated in what you do.

[Pbenner]

So how do people play "Fallen" Armies? CSM minis and DA codex?

[Tengo]

Hay dude, welcome to the forum and the general hobby!

 

Always willing to help out a squaddie, what colour and battalion you with?

 

First of all, you're certainly not alone, I remember my starting days, when I spent pretty much every night on the GW website for weeks trying to choose my first army, and the second I blew several hundred quid on that army, I got the itch to start another army.

 

I started 40K playing Black Templars, but it wasn't too long until I decided that I'd rather play Dark Angels, it's hard to decide whether to stick or change armies, but at the end of the day, the one you'd really rather will prevail.

 

Personally, I really fancy playing Space Wolves, like you the whole Viking theme really grabs me, but I'm really loving Dark Angels at the moment, so I'm waiting until I'm satisfied with what I have for my DA until I make the move to the wolves.

The Dark Angels have a really rich history and background, they're also some of the most awesome space marines, they're really cold and dark, the attitude of the chapter is just cool!

 

Currently, the Space Wolves Codex is stronger than the Dark Angels, infact the SW 'dex is one of the strongest in the game, if a Dark Angels player and a Space wolf deployed pretty much the same army, the DA player would be at a disadvantage. This means that to play DA well, you've got to make a strong list and play smart, playing DA to win requires more thought.

 

Tactical marines for Dark Angels are pretty expensive compared to all other space marine chapters, so that means that in a good list, they're normally not found. The best way to go for Dark angels is to buy some Terminators, and go for the Deathwing, or bikes and speeders and do a Ravenwing army. Veterans, Company Masters and chaplains are all good choices for a DA army.

That being said, it always make sense to have a handful of tactical marines handy, and they're always the best place to start when it comes to painting and getting in a few early games.

 

You could do both SW and DA, my advice is to play Space Wolves and make up a conventional marine force, with tactical squads and long fangs etc, and a pure 'wing' DA army, with just terminators and/or bikes and land speeders, that way you get the best of both worlds.

 

What you can do is find the number of your local GW, call them up and explain your situation, and that you'd like to play a few games with a staff member to get to grips with 40K, and then just pop down any day you're free (maybe give 'em a call just before you leave) you don't need any kind of commitment, they won't ban you just for not showing up! :)

 

and Pbenner, people play fallen armies either using the CSM dex and DA/chaos minis, or using the DA dex and pre-heresy paintscheme

[Isiah]

What you can do is find the number of your local GW, call them up and explain your situation, and that you'd like to play a few games with a staff member to get to grips with 40K, and then just pop down any day you're free (maybe give 'em a call just before you leave) you don't need any kind of commitment, they won't ban you just for not showing up! :lol:

 

Not a bad idea.

[DemonReaper]

ok first off i would like to say a big thank you to everyone who has posted on my topic, :lol:

 

i have made my desicion, after being told off on the SW forum ( :( ) for trying to put converted DA vets in my SW army ( didnt know i couldnt do it... so i did HAHA )

wich i do actually appriciate being told i could before i actually put them all together with wolfy bits on :P .

 

i am going to do both armies but in small bits... work on my space wolves, which i will play with when back from afghan, and DA for painting value ( and defonatley playing at some point). Now i do have a question, i put together my first termies today ( SW WG ) and really like the look and size of them, so if i was going to push towards DW my my DA army then could i have a few TIPS please off more experienced hobbists?? and how i would include nomal green SM into my list.

 

i look forward to reading all your thoughts brothers, thanks

 

Adam

 

 

EDIT - Tengo, i am in The Light Dragoons, Foramtion Reconnaissance mate

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I removed OT questions. Those can be made and answered by PM.

[Tengo]

ok first off i would like to say a big thank you to everyone who has posted on my topic, :P

 

i have made my desicion, after being told off on the SW forum ( :P ) for trying to put converted DA vets in my SW army ( didnt know i couldnt do it... so i did HAHA )

wich i do actually appriciate being told i could before i actually put them all together with wolfy bits on :P .

 

i am going to do both armies but in small bits... work on my space wolves, which i will play with when back from afghan, and DA for painting value ( and defonatley playing at some point). Now i do have a question, i put together my first termies today ( SW WG ) and really like the look and size of them, so if i was going to push towards DW my my DA army then could i have a few TIPS please off more experienced hobbists?? and how i would include nomal green SM into my list.

 

i look forward to reading all your thoughts brothers, thanks

 

Adam

 

 

EDIT - Tengo, i am in The Light Dragoons, Foramtion Reconnaissance mate

 

Light dragoons, recce boys eh? good on you mate

 

My first tip is; whatever you do, it's your army, if you want to use DA veterans, with beige robes and dark green armour, and put them in your SW force and call them "Grey hunters" you can. So long as they've got the right weapons and equipment, there's no rules against it and no one can tell you that it's not allowed. (If you do decide to do this, best to have some sort of made up backstory [called 'fluff'] as to why that unit of space wolves look suspiciously like Dark Angels, or why your force has a detachment of allied troops from another chapter) Hell, if you want, you can make up your own chapter entirely, you get to choose the colour scheme, the history and fluff, and you can use the SW codex if you wish and say that your chapter is a descendant of the Space Wolves, who mingled with some Dark Angels along the way.

 

My tip for deathwing is, take atleast 5 units of terminators, have some equipped to handle combat (Thunder Hammer+storm shield and Lightning Claws) and some equipped with Storm bolters. Your close combat terminators bring the pain a little too close to the enemy's line, while the Storm Bolter termies support them, providing suppressing fire, guarding tactical locations and being available for counter-assaults.

There's a lot of debate about what further weaponry to give terminators, I like to give the assault squads heavy flamers, and the supporting squads Cyclone Missile Launchers. Ofcourse if you're coming up against a mainly mechanised opponent, with little massed infantry, then you might want to swap the flamers for missile launchers, and throw in some Chainfists.

Putting Belial and a chaplain in a terminator assault squad each really increases their effectiveness.

Venerable dreadnoughts are part of the Deathwing, and are good choices to add, Land Raiders are necessary for transporting Terminators, and they're really heavy tanks, but are total fire magnets.

 

If you want a unit of green in your deathwing army, the best way to go is Veterans or Devastator squad, although I'd probably field a command squad. If you want to include tac marines, take them as cheap as you can, and use them as distractions, for screens or just keep them safe, with a rhino or razorback, and use them to claim or contest as tactical location at the last minute.