Rune Priest Ridcully Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'll second the recommendation as well, it is very good, despite Ahriman going all doctor manhattan and stereotypically villainy at the end. I'm did not pick up a doctor vibe when reading it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Now it's an evil sword. Take your pick. Oh! And Fulgrim isn't even Fulgrim anymore, it's just a daemon, so the whole "fall" issue is completely moot, it might as well be Marneus Calgar stuck in there it would make no difference, the daemon from the sword has full control. But at least the picture looks nice now, y'know, just like in that Oscar Wilde story! Hey, people thought he was cool, so obviously Graham is cool too. I thought the idea of Fulgrim being trapped in his own mind while knowing what a horrible mistake he made and not being able to do anything but watch as the daemon pretended to be him was really a horrific end. His jealousy and paranoia coming to a head with him killing his own brother and then immediately regretting it was a good read. As far as borrowing ideas from Oscar Wilde, pretty much all of 40k lore is some kind of reference to something else. Literature, mythology, other sci-fi franchises, real world politics taken tongue-in-cheek, popular movies. Singling out McNeil for that is kind of silly when the whole franchise is built on it in one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Yes, but most 40k fluff started as pastiche and then got a "soul" of its own and moved away to be its own thing. Instead of that, Graham took what was a fairly original story and made it pastiche. To contrast, look at how ADB handled Curze, he didn't take any more "inspiration" than was necessary and made him feel like a unique character and not just Colonel Kurtz IN SPEHSS. Similarly, he managed to pull off TFH without making Lorgar almost literally into another character--I mean literally! He even stole the part where Dorian kills Basil (the guy that did the picture), so no, 40k fluff is at least in my opinion best when it takes inspiration and then goes its own way not straight up copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I agree with Max. Anyone who watched the X-Men movies can notice several striking similarites between Wolverine and the Black Dragon character in the second Salamanders novel. Particularly the lines, which were taken word for word, "Does it hurt? When they come out?" "Every time." As somone once put it, nothing new can be made. Everything is a different interpretation o the same idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Yes and Voltaire once put it that "a witty saying proves nothing". In other words you guys are free to like what you like despite it being pastiche and I'm free to consider it lazy and annoying. Only difference is that I'm right. Just kidding :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'm also inclined to agree with Max and Kol. Yes, yes, you can simplify it to Dorian Gray (Grey?) meets a shiny sword. But I could not write a story based on Dorian Gray meets a shiny sword, that's how Fulgrim fell. To me, what made it interesting and different was Ferrus Mannus. Brilliant plot device, if you ask me. And where did it come from? Really? Ferrus Mannus is best friends with Fulgrim? Who would of thought of that? Not only that, but the only thing in Fulgrim that actually wanted to resist the daemon was his brotherhood to Ferrus Mannus. And he did, didn't he? IIRC, the daemon actually had to put all of its efforts into convincing Fulgrim to kill him, and even then, it took the second time around before he actually did it. And once he did, he realized what he had done (though I'm inclined to believe the daemon let him 'get grips on reality', so to speak). And the guilt of killing his closest brother overwhelmed him, that's why he let himself be possessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 And the best part is, he thought he was commiting suicide until he realized he was just being squeezed into a painting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 And I particularly liked when Horus silently vows to free his brother from the daemons grip... at some point in the future, sure, but the sentiment is still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I loved the part in Aurelian (spoiler alert) when Lorgar attacks "Fulgrim" and demands the daemon release his brother . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshed Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 (Spoiler alert I guess) Aurelian gave a new swing on Lorgar to be sure. He goes from being the scholar to being the warrior basically. From the "I don't want to fight" to "here let me unlock my pyshic potential and tell Horus to bug off and Magnus that he is a drop in the ocean" Now we truely see Lorgar as he should be and that in and of itself is the beauty of the fall. We see what he was before, the ambission, the want for a better future after the Great Crusade. We see him slapped down by the Emperor. We see him searching for something new to follow and then we see him peak again. Where he finally accepts what is going on and embraces it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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